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More On Elder

I hate to take attention away from the excellent commentary Todd posted earlier, and originally I had planned to effectively take the day off and allow that to stay up top all day, but I am afraid something major has arisen in the meantime that has changed those plans.

Redshirt freshman defensive lineman Jeremy Elder has been arrested in Tuscaloosa on two counts of armed robbery. Long story short, he apparently robbed two UA students at gunpoint Saturday night as the two were walking to their car in a campus parking lot.

The charges are, of course, very serious. This is not your typical college transgression by any stretch of the imagination. The two charges of armed robbery are considered Class A felonies in the state of Alabama, and in the state of Alabama Class A felonies carry a punishment of, "Not less than ten (10) years and not more than life or ninety-nine (99) years imprisonment in the state penitentiary and may include a fine not to exceed $20,000." Moreover, at this point, the Tuscaloosa News is reporting that Elder is currently still behind bars in the Tuscaloosa County Jail on $120,000.00 bail.

Again, this is not your typical college years transgression. This is a very serious felony offense, and unless there is a massive mistake in identity or a complete fabrication by the two victims -- both of which, of course, are a one-in-a-million shot -- Elder's next stop will be at an Alabama state penitentiary for a very long period of time. Rest assured, this is not the type of thing that will result in some community service, a few months probation, and a relatively small fine, and then everything will go away and be just fine. It's not that type of situation, to put it mildly.

Coach Saban, as of this posting, was not available for comment on the situation, and rightly so. There is really nothing that he can say on the subject, and there is nothing he can do about anything. Elder probably just threw his life away, and there is nothing the Nicktator can do about that one. Moreover, there is really nothing for Saban himself to even decide. The decision and punishment in this situation will be up to a judge and jury, what Saban thinks does not matter the least little bit.

Now, from a football perspective, it goes without saying that Elder is effectively done. Obviously you cannot play football while incarcerated, and it just means that Elder's career at Alabama is almost certainly over.

In terms of talent and depth for the 2008 season, Elder's seeming demise really has no major impact. He redshirted in 2007, and did not play a single snap, not even in the Western Carolina game. For the 2008 season he would have probably played a few snaps here and there -- mainly in garbage time in blowout situations -- but it seems unlikely that he would have seen any significant amount of quality playing time. Our defensive line will feature several players next year as starters or in key situations, but Elder was unlikely to be one of those players. His departure is unlikely to have any tangible impact on our success in the short-term.

Elder's likely departure will also free up a scholarship in regard to the limit of 85 scholarship players. As you probably know by now, we need to free up a few scholarships, and this just puts us one step closer to that point. Moreover, on a more general point, it is largely reasons like this as to why you oversign in the first place. Attrition is a part of the game, and you have to compensate for that accordingly.

We'll have more on this as news becomes available.

Update [2008-2-18 15:18:57 by outsidethesidelines]:

As was first posted by kennybk in the comments, Saban has suspended Elder indefinitely from all football activities. It's a token gesture at best, however. It really does not matter what Saban does with Elder because the judicial system is going to trump whatever he wants to do. Regardless of what Saban says or does, Elder is likely prison-bound.

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Brian Cook was right!
Nick Saban set Elder up to free up room for our 2008 signees. Damn that Brian Cook sure is smart!

by heffie on Feb 18, 2008 1:04 PM CST reply actions  

Wow
I can't believe he (allegedly) held up students. I mean, they are college students for the college he represents and plays (practices, sits on the bench) for. I mean, that could have been me. Damn.

ps. lol Heffie

Cause bama's pluck and gritt has writ her name in crimson flame.

by pluckandgritt on Feb 18, 2008 1:08 PM CST reply actions  

I came to say what Heffie said....
But since he said it, i'll let it alone.

I wonder about Elder's background. Was he someone Saban picked up after he got to Tuscaloosa or was he one of the 'questionable' guys that the previous coaching staff had gone after and Saban celebrated with Lemsday?

Also, isn't that "Kill me if you can" Ad over on the left margin a little too flamible for a sports blog?

I'm in no condition to drive...wait! I shouldn't listen to myself, I'm drunk.

by That Other Dave on Feb 18, 2008 1:46 PM CST reply actions  

Notes
Elder was a Saban recruit. He was a guy we suddenly pursued in the final week before NSD last year, when everyone thought he was going to either Georgia or Arkansas, and he committed to us a couple of days before NSD.

As for the ads... you'll have to ask either Todd or Nico. I have no clue how any of that stuff works, and I'm honestly not even sure if they have any control over that sort of thing.

by outsidethesidelines on Feb 18, 2008 1:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Also
They misspelled 'heroes.'

by Steve Dave on Feb 18, 2008 2:21 PM CST up reply actions  

We're looking into pulling it...
I hadn't even noticed it, but apparently it's a Google ad that they approved on everyone's behalf to rush it through.  Typically the blog gets to see the ad before it gets posted, but we got an e-mail basically saying "we need to rush this one through, so we're just going to post it and if you have any objections let us know and we'll take it off your blog."  Normally we wouldn't care, but it is rather inflammatory and after last week's brouhaha that's the last thing we need around here.

by Todd on Feb 18, 2008 2:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Dave...
I've been incredibly sick the last day or two and haven't been able to check the site or the email. I got an email from BlogAds that this ad was "auto approved" by them because the author wanted it to run immediately. I don't know what it's all about, but this is the first I've seen of it. I've already emailed them asking them to take it down.

You should've seen one of the ones I didn't approve last week. There's some crazy ads being submitted lately.

Roll Tide!

by Nico2.0 on Feb 18, 2008 2:28 PM CST up reply actions  

BlogAds' offices....
...are closed until Tuesday, so it'll be up 'til tomorrow. Sorry all, I wish we had the ability to pull it
Roll Tide!

by Nico2.0 on Feb 18, 2008 2:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Come on, Elder...
If you're gonna rob somebody, don't rob college students! We don't have any freaking money!

by Bama philosophe on Feb 18, 2008 1:54 PM CST reply actions  

Suspended
He was suspended indefinitely, which of course means he is gone.

http://blog.al.com/rapsheet/2008/02/saban_suspends_elder_indefinit.html

by kennybk483 on Feb 18, 2008 2:08 PM CST reply actions  

Take this comment with a grain of salt.....
If this doesn't prove we're not paying players, then nothing will!

On a serious note:  I have no sympathy for Elder at this time, but I do hope he gets on the right track.  

by yellowhammer on Feb 18, 2008 3:02 PM CST reply actions  

I'm honestly dissappointed in you, OTS.
Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

You all act like the outcome is a certainty, when in fact we know nothing. I hate that our society - spurred on by the media, in particular - is so quick to rush to judgment these days.

Do you appreciate just how often the police are wrong? Do you appreciate just how often "eye witness" reports are COMPLETELY fallacious. It's not intentional, but when someone is holding a gun in your face or otherwise menacing you, chances are you will have absolutely no idea what they look like after the fact. It's just the way the human mind works. (you've heard of 'fight-or-flight'?)

I forget the exact numbers, but since DNA profiling has become prevalent there have been a truly staggering number of exonerations for people on DEATH ROW. Meaning the police and court were so SURE that a person was guilty they sentenced them to death. Wrongly.

Of course he could be completely guilty for all I know, but you know what: none of us know. Maybe the cops found the gun and money in his room? Maybe they took the description the two kids gave to them and started hunting around every dorm in the direction the robber went looking for a black dude that fit the account. (don't think for a second that doesn't happen.)

Just realize that none of us have an alibi for every second of our lives and any one of use could be wrongly accused of any number of heinous acts that we wouldn't even have the slightest idea of how to go about perpetrating. Wouldn't you appreciate the benefit of a doubt from alot of people who don't even know you?

We won't know what the truth is in this case until he's tried (and maybe even not then) so how about we all hold off on the tenuous character judgments and act like we appreciate the novel idiom on which this country was founded of "innocent until proven guilty".

by Cam on Feb 18, 2008 5:07 PM CST reply actions  

Interesting Point
You make an interesting point I think he obviouly deserves every benefit of the doubt, but I see no way this ends well for the young man.  I understand what you are saying about the police, but you can put me on the side of the police more often than not.

by kennybk483 on Feb 18, 2008 5:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Jeremy Elder
Dear Cam,

Thank you for making this very important point.  

This blog is in danger of developing a reputation for going off half-cocked without giving a thought to statements.

by Tideincal on Feb 18, 2008 8:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Just in case you were wondering...
If it is proven that Elder robbed them, etc, etc, etc., and assuming he gets a 10 year sentence (minimum for felonies, which he will probably get if he has no priors), that 26 bucks will equate to him earning 0.000296 cents per hour while he's in prison.  

by Bama philosophe on Feb 18, 2008 8:33 PM CST up reply actions  

I see your point...
...but from what is being reported it doesn't look like the cops went beating down doors afterwards looking for the first black guy they could find.  Also, he lives in the athletics dorm, so they probably were pretty darn sure he was the guy to go after him. The incident occurred Saturday night, and no arrest was made until Sunday (presumably later in the day since word didn't get out until today and that kind of thing is hard to keep under wraps when it concerns Alabama football) by the Tuscaloosa County Sheriff's Department AND a UA Police Department investigator, so, again they had to have good reason to suspect Elder.  Anyway, I am with that we shouldn't assume he's guilty until more facts come out.  From what's being reported now, which is admittedly very little, it doesn't sound like there's a lot of chance the police were mistaken, but that is always a possibility.  And we should reserve judgement on such a serious crime until we know more.

by Todd on Feb 18, 2008 8:43 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think you see the point
because you keep speculating that he's "probably guilty."  If you actually saw Cam's point you would stop the public speculation and remember that a young man's life and reputation are at stake.  Perhaps he did it and perhaps he didn't.  The point is that you don't have enough information to make a reasoned public claim about this young man's life.  

And even if you did have enough information to conclude that he is guilty, do you want to state that conclusion in a public forum, given how much is at stake for Jeremy Elder?  It seems that a little restraint is in order.  We're no longer talking about football or basketball.  This is not like speculating about whether Mark Gottfried should be fired from a $1 million-plus salaried position.  (Some might wonder whether Gottfried is "stealing" the University blind.  Why don't you write about that?)

I appreciate this blog and check it almost daily.  You guys have done a really nice job but you're losing your focus a bit in the last few days. Stick to the sports; cultural analysis of Michigan fans and criminal law are not your strengths.

by Tideincal on Feb 18, 2008 10:20 PM CST up reply actions  

When did I say...
...that he is undeniably guilty?  All we've said is that he's been arrested and it looks bad for him?  No one here has acted as the judge and jury, so calm down.

by Todd on Feb 19, 2008 8:19 AM CST up reply actions  

It's a free country
People can say almost anything they want to say on a blog.  I wouldn't have it any other way.  

I'm just saying that the more serious an issue is, the more I appreciate people who show self-restraint in a public forum.  It's just good manners.  That's all.  Speculating in a public forum about the degree of probability of some guy's guilt in a serius crime is just poor taste.

And if I don't like what I find here, I can look somewhere else. No big deal.  Just wanted to say what I appreciate about your site.

by Tideincal on Feb 19, 2008 2:23 PM CST up reply actions  

You need to chill.
All Todd was saying is that it is very unlikely that they arrested the wrong person.  Do you honestly think the cops just randomly picked up Elder and charge him with a crime?  No.  I am sure they have good reason.

While I certainly believe in innocent until proven guilty, and he may well be innocent, it looks like the facts are lining up against him.  You also have to give some credit to the police that they have some sort of common sense to NOT arrest the wrong person.  And, I may be wrong, but I think that is the general point the staff was attempting to make.  

Furthermore, do you think Saban would have suspended this kid because there are no facts in the case; he is also sitting in prison with a $120,000 bail.  

Yeah, the Michigan thing got out of hand - on all accounts - but don't come in here holier-than-thou and start criticizing a staff that busts their asses day in and day out to provide YOU with information and high quality analysis of this football team we all love.  If you don't like it, go somewhere else.  I think Todd already apologized for the Michigan thing - which, IMO, was not necessary - but just because you don't agree with everything that is written does not mean there is something wrong with the site.  I agree with you and Cam's points about innocent until proven guilty, but blame Saban and the TPD, who obviously feel there are facts that warrant this kid to be suspended and placed in jail.  All these guys are doing is providing news and editorials on THEIR opinions about the situation.

"FAILURE" - When your best just isn't good enough

by BamaReturns07 on Feb 19, 2008 9:43 AM CST up reply actions  

This blog is not a court of law...
You know it's innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, and unless something has changed dramatically recently, this isn't a courtroom. I and the blog runners here have every right to assume someone is guilty from the evidence at hand. I'm also assuming we are all adult enough to change our minds if more evidence comes out that would blur that view.

With the exception of this young mans family and himself, I doubt anyone here wants him to be guilty. Unfortunately, just because you want something doesn't make it so.

I'm in no condition to drive...wait! I shouldn't listen to myself, I'm drunk.

by That Other Dave on Feb 19, 2008 10:13 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree completely
It's highly disturbing to not read an impartial account of what happened, but "this is a terrible thing for this young man, that he is going to jail."

Any such statements--and yes, I'm distorting for effect--are extremely premature.

And as far as the "well, the cops wouldn't arrest him for no reason . . . " That is simply--and regrettably--false.  In the past week here in Mississippi there have been two high-profile exonerations of men (namely Kennedy Brewer) who were wrongfully arrested, wrongfully convicted, and wrongfully held for years.

It's a plague, it happens all the time, and it's terrible to just assume guilt.  And yes, Todd, there was a rush to judgment, and the main article is filled with handwringing about how terrible this is.  It IS terrible to be arrested under any circumstances, but it's no death knell.

I'm very disappointed, and I think it's important to just give this kid the full benefit of the doubt.

Not to mention that yes, that's the the crime he was arrested under.  It doesn't take me being a lawyer to tell you that EVEN IF he goes to trial on such charges--if they stick, if nothing else happens--there are levels of crimes below that are encompassed in that crime.  There's always lesser crimes, and many first-timers plead down, plead out, or simply walk.

I'm just surprised by the knee-jerking to guilt.  I would much, MUCH rather we knee-jerked towards being hopeful that this isn't what happened.

Never quit. It is the easiest cop-out in the world.

by gorjus on Feb 19, 2008 10:47 AM CST up reply actions  

I totally disagree
with most of what you said.  However, I doubt he pleads out or gets the sentenced reduced IF he is convicted of Armed Robbery.  That is a serious felony, and they will not simply let him walk for that one.  Either way, if found guilty, his football and collegiate career or over, if not any chance at a quality life.  

I think you guys are blowing the main article WAAAAY out of proportion.  I don't think anyone on here "wants" this guy to be guilty, but it just looks bad all the way around.  Again, I don't think Saban would have suspended him if there was no evidence of what he did.

I also think that your comment about police is an easy way out.  Police tend to be an easy target, and past actions have proved that sometimes, and to some degree, it is justified.  But, honestly, do you REALLY think the TPD would arrest an Alabama football player if they did not have solid evidence against him?

"FAILURE" - When your best just isn't good enough

by BamaReturns07 on Feb 19, 2008 11:08 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm not seeing a rush to judgement...
...anywhere in this.  In my comments on the bumped diary, I said "if the allegations prove true."  In this post, OTS has qualified that "apparently" Elder robbed two students at gun point and that unless there is a case of mistaken identity or fabrication on the part of the witnesses, Elder is looking at jail time.  I'll agree that saying those two things are a one in a million shot isn't necessarily true considering they do happen more than we'd like to think about, but given what's been reported, our commentary that this does not look good for Elder is just that, a commentary that things don't look good for him.  No one is stating that he is, without a doubt, guilty.  No one is saying that they need to lock him away ASAP.  And further, the insinuation that he is being railroaded by the police is, in my opinion, off base.  If he had been picked up on the strip five minutes after the attack and the victims had said "it was a big black guy, he went that way" and the cops picked up the first guy they saw, then yeah, that's crap.  But that's not what happened.  From what's being reported, the UA Police Investigators and the Tuscaloosa Sheriff's Department were both involved in the arrest, so there was at least some time spent on determining suspects for both agencies to have come together on it.  Further, he is, after all, an Alabama football player living in the athletics dorm, and there would have to be a monumental lack of judgement on the parts of both departments to call down the kind of media firestorm the careless arrest and detention of an Alabama football player would generate, which is why I think there must be some pretty compelling evidence to actually arrest him and hold him under $120,000 bond, as opposed to simply bringing him in for questioning.  None of this is "knee jerk guilt."  Knee jerk guilt would be simply saying that Elder was arrested, he needs to be kicked off the team immediately.  Instead, we've pointed out that he was arrested, provided the definition of his charges and the penalty for them if he is convicted.  Yeah, he might plea down, but, again, those are the penalties if he is convicted of the crime he is accused of.  Believe me, we take no pleasure in seeing a guy that has a future ahead of him facing these circumstances, and hope that this can be settled where Elder is able to move on with his life in a productive way, be it exoneration of the charges if he's innocent, or the ability to get his life back on track after whatever the judgement is if he's guilty.  

by Todd on Feb 19, 2008 11:29 AM CST up reply actions  

Tideincal
Are you related to Jeremy Elder?

by JTMagnum on Feb 19, 2008 11:49 AM CST up reply actions  

Considering the circumstances
If I were going to bet on something like this I'd bet on the police being right and Elder being identified in a line up by two different witnesses at different times etc. The police have much to lose by being wrong, and there would not be a public outcry for an arrest in a case like this since no one was hurt. In other words if they weren't very very sure they would have done nothing. Being wrong here could cost some people their job.  

If I were Elder's dad I'd be trying to get my son to take a plea to a lesser offense right now to do about 5 years claiming the gun wasn't real or he didn't really pull it etc.--something bogus. Don't know if DA would take a plea, but I'd be trying to get one and quick.    

Still he is innocent until he pleads or goes to trial. But the thought that Saban set the thing up is about as crazy as saying that Bush planned 9/11. No, it is even more crazy.    

by 5026 on Feb 18, 2008 9:46 PM CST reply actions  

Wow...
There are flamers everywhere lately!

by GSCRocks on Feb 19, 2008 8:51 AM CST reply actions  

I have noticed that we got a lot of folks
on the boards that are wound up tight lately.

People need to take it easy...this site is supposed to be entertaining and fun, somewhere along the way everybody got there panties in a wad.

tubs sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!

by BAMA PHREAK on Feb 19, 2008 10:59 AM CST reply actions  

So True
Phreak.
"FAILURE" - When your best just isn't good enough

by BamaReturns07 on Feb 19, 2008 11:23 AM CST reply actions  

Todd, Nico, OTS:
Don't listen to some of these comments.  Y'all run a very professional site and I love your commentary.  Otherwise I would simply elect to get my Tide info elsewhere.  May I suggest those that disagree with your posting view other sites.  Keep up the great job.
RTR
I wouldn't piss off the boys from Alabama . . .

by I hate UT on Feb 19, 2008 1:21 PM CST reply actions  

Are you ready....
for some football?!  I think you all are!!!

by TexasTideGirl on Feb 19, 2008 9:22 PM CST reply actions  

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