Ingram Heisman Talk Thread
by bamabrian on Oct 19, 2009 11:47 AM CDT
25 comments
I've personally always thought it neat that Alabama has not had a Heisman Trophy winner, as this is clearly a result of the mentality that the team comes before the individual, and that we win team championships rather than individual trophies, but I am getting tired of hearing "they can shove the Heisman" and such comments on Alabama boards.
Other than never having been a team designed around the superstar mentality, the other reasons for us not having a winner include the fact that we don't generally campaign for players to win the Heisman, seeing such campaigns as distractions more than anything else. But what would we say if Shaun Alexander hadn't gotten hurt for several weeks his senior year and had won the trophy? All the people who were thought to be ahead of him at the time of his sprained ankle fell by the wayside, and as consistent as he was, he would have had an awfully good shot at it. What if Ingram were to win it this year? You can't tell me those guys wouldn't appreciate being honored for their work on the football field, although I do think that individual trophies aren't (or weren't) their main goals.
I believe a better approach is indifference, which is the position that Mark Ingram has taken in a few comments as have other players regarding their individual award possibilities, namely Javier Arenas, Rolando McClain, and Terrence Cody. Our negativity towards the Heisman Trophy screams of jealousy or bitterness when viewed by outsiders, even if that is not necessarily the case. If we take the "we are working towards a championship; the other awards are nice gestures and will take care of themselves if we win" mentality that Saban and the team seem to have taken, we won't look like bitter, wounded people to the football world, and if we ever DO have a Heisman winner, the honor won't be tarnished to the player and his family and friends by the fact that we have talked so negatively about if for so long.
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I see no reason
Why Ingram or any other player should not be publicly rewarded for his hard work.
by Go Hide in the V-berth on Oct 19, 2009 11:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hmm..
Im not sure why most Bama fans dislike the Heisman so much. True, its somewhat a over hyped pretty boy contest but most Bama fans seem to loathe the damn thing. It’s almost like we are bitter. I also get we tend to like the “team” effort angle but that sounds more like an excuse to why our players haven’t won it, other than why we don’t
wantto win it.
I for one think its a huge honor to win it. I think most the time (not all the time) the voters get it right. Do they miss ever so often? Um yeah…But i for one would love to see Alabama become a heisman winning machine. Why? Cause that means we are winning and we are getting the best athletes…Just my opinion of course.
Scoring against Alabama will be like birthing a child: rare, painful, and messy. - The Ghost of Jay Cutler
by bammer on Oct 19, 2009 1:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
formatting fail.
Scoring against Alabama will be like birthing a child: rare, painful, and messy. - The Ghost of Jay Cutler
by bammer on Oct 19, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Umm
I think most the time (not all the time) the voters get it right.
You’re kidding, right? In 75 years of giving out this “best player in college football” award, it has only gone to someone who wasn’t a QB or RB FIVE times. It has only once gone to a defensive player — and the only reason Woodson was even considered was because of his return prowess.
It’s never gone to an offensive lineman. It’s never gone to a defensive lineman. It’s never gone to a linebacker.
Fact is, the Hiesman is just a hyped up “best offensive skilled position player” award . . . and there’s already an award for that.
The Heisman is a joke.
I'm wrong all the time.
by PeteHoliday on Oct 19, 2009 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And how exactly does one choose "the best" player, anyway?
In the best of all worlds the final choice would be between the best offensive player and the best defensive player in CFB. How do you choose? Their positions can’t be remotely compared. The impact they both had on their teams will be great, but in completely different ways. Also, their “supporting cast” will have played a major role in making their individual efforts stand out, so if the best defensive player is on a team that didn’t do so hot offensively and lost a game or two, while the best offensive player was on a team that went undefeated, guess who wins – despite his actual skill level.
In short, it’s an arbitrary honor at best. I’m all for our players getting it if they get voted in, but even if we have someone “in the conversation” I don’t get my hopes up, and it’s not all that important to me in the end.
I bleed crimson and white...I puke Vol puke orange. RTR
by SugarBowl93 on Oct 19, 2009 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just don’t understand why bama fans in particular hate it so much. I’ll agree that its become a beauty contest over the years. But that doesn’t take away from the fact that the winner usually played or won the NC. So, if Alabama players start winning the trophy, there’s a good chance we would also be adding some other “bigger” trophies along side it….
Lets just make it clear. If they did away the award all together it wouldn’t break my heart.
Scoring against Alabama will be like birthing a child: rare, painful, and messy. - The Ghost of Jay Cutler
by bammer on Oct 19, 2009 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, for starters, it hasn’t become a beauty contest “over the years”, it STARTED as a beauty contest. Look back at the old winners. RB, RB, RB, QB, RB, RB, blah, blah, blah.
Listen. We already have the O’Brien (QB), the Doak Walker (RB), and the Biletnikof (WR) awards for those positions, and those awards are already hard enough to figure out. The Heisman purports to be able to compare apples, oranges, and tortoises to come up with a “player of the year” award? That’s just dumb.
So, if Alabama players start winning the trophy, there’s a good chance we would also be adding some other "bigger" trophies along side it….
This is terrible logic. We’ve been doing a perfectly fine job of winning trophies without the Heisman. The award actually has no impact on what happens on the field. Having a Heisman trophy winner doesn’t actually increase your odds of winning the NC. Not having a Heisman winner doesn’t keep you from winning them.
The point is that it’s a dumb award because about the only thing you can vote based on is hype and touchdowns.
I'm wrong all the time.
by PeteHoliday on Oct 19, 2009 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We’ve been doing a perfectly fine job of winning trophies without the Heisman.
Must i remind you it’s been almost 20 years since we won our last NC…. So perhaps having “hiesman” like players on our team wouldn’t be all that bad.
The award actually has no impact on what happens on the field. Having a Heisman trophy winner doesn’t actually increase your odds of winning the NC. Not having a Heisman winner doesn’t keep you from winning them.
Yeah, ill agree with that.
The point is that it’s a dumb award because about the only thing you can vote based on is hype and touchdowns.
Ill agree with that to a certain point. If that were true, the Hawaii and Texas Tech QB’s would win the damn thing every year…but i get your point.
Again Pete, im not sayin the Heisman is the bestest award evah. Im just saying it wouldn’t be a bad thing if an Alabama player won it every once in a while….along with the BCS Championship.
Scoring against Alabama will be like birthing a child: rare, painful, and messy. - The Ghost of Jay Cutler
by bammer on Oct 20, 2009 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t suppose I need to remind you that history goes back farther than 20 years . . . so perhaps we should look at all of it rather than cherry picking from it to support our point.
Im just saying it wouldn’t be a bad thing if an Alabama player won it every once in a while
And I’m saying exactly the opposite.
I don’t want our players to win them. They’re all hype, no substance. They’re meaningless. I don’t want a player of ours to ever win a hype award, because it detracts from every other player on the team and, frankly, it detracts from the TEAM.
The team is what’s important here.
I'm wrong all the time.
by PeteHoliday on Oct 20, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t suppose I need to remind you that history goes back farther than 20 years . . . so perhaps we should look at all of it rather than cherry picking from it to support our point.
I wasn’t cherry picking. Im fully aware of our sucess over the years. My point was that its been a while since our team has won a NC. And typically (not all the time mind you) if we have (and we do right now) heismanesque players on our team…our chances of winning that elusive 13th NC will come sooner rather than later.
Scoring against Alabama will be like birthing a child: rare, painful, and messy. - The Ghost of Jay Cutler
by bammer on Oct 20, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bammer...
…I hear what you’re saying here, and it’s not completely misguided, but I still disagree. First of all, we’ve only had Heisman ‘finalists’ during four of our 8 championship seasons since its inception in 1935 (61, 65, 79, 92)…and none in 1945 and 1966 when we won every game. Of those four, only David Palmer finished in the top three.
If you want to find qualifications for great individuals on championship winning teams, I suggest you try All-Americans, because we’ve had at least one on each of ours…and multiples on most of them.
Finally, I don’t want our players to be ‘heismanesque’…Gino Toretta was ‘heismanesque’, and he sucked. He didn’t know it until he ran into a real team, but he sucked. Shane Matthews was prolly the best QB we faced that year, but he wasn’t ‘heismanesque’. Jay Barker wasn’t, either.
Heisman=hype.
As CNS says, we just need to “be a champion”.
It’s bad grammar, but it makes perfect sense.
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Oct 20, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok i get that...
Scoring against Alabama will be like birthing a child: rare, painful, and messy. - The Ghost of Jay Cutler
by bammer on Oct 20, 2009 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bingo
“Heismanesque” players are the problem. We need winners.
Give me All-Americans. Give me O’Brien, Walker, Biletnikoff, Outland, Nagurski, Butkus, Thorpe, and Groza award finalists.
Give me players with as much heart as talent.
Give me players who understand what it means to be a part of a team.
Fuck the Heisman. I’d be perfectly happy if it was never given out again to anyone.
I'm wrong all the time.
by PeteHoliday on Oct 20, 2009 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s almost like we are bitter.
I personally don’t care that we’ve never won it, but I know some older fans that are very bitter about some Bama players not winning it.
I’m fine with us winning it as long as it doesn’t distract from winning and we don’t get into stupid stuff for stat padding purposes.
by Nico2.0 on Oct 19, 2009 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't we...
…just have the same coversation regarding Greg McElroy three weeks ago? Ingram has been unbelieveable, but it seems like we should at least wait till after the the first weekend in November before talking about individual awards. The season is barely half way over.
by Kenny483 on Oct 19, 2009 1:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This has been discussed on RBR multiple times
although Ingram is really the first player that may actually have a chance to win it since the establishment of the blog. The Heisman trophy is the Hallmark holiday of awards. It does nothing more than sell advertisements by providing hype for what is essentially a tv show. I am not cycnical enough to think change is bad, but this is one tradition I hope we keep. Surely the mechanical, heart of coal Saban that we all stereotype has not time to worry with such meaningless things as a player’s trophy. He is building a machine (program) to win SEC and national titles.
I wouldn't piss off the boys from Alabama . . . DBT
by I hate UT on Oct 19, 2009 2:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
great idea for a fanpost
please post more like this, please.
Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.
by kleph on Oct 19, 2009 9:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Gino Torretta....
sometimes you gotta roll the hard six
by chapkyle on Oct 19, 2009 10:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
every
USC player who won it..
Scoring against Alabama will be like birthing a child: rare, painful, and messy. - The Ghost of Jay Cutler
by bammer on Oct 20, 2009 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You'd vote Torretta too . . .
If you awoke with a horse’s head in your bed.
by MeanBobMean on Oct 20, 2009 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
is that how he wound up acting in hollywood too?
welcome to the SEC kiffykins...
by tempebamafan on Oct 20, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Careful...
…you called it ‘acting’….
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Oct 20, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I watched the yahoo heisman update video
Tom Dienhart said Tebow had a “heisman moment” in the Arkansas game. Are you kidding me? His stats were mediocre including a couple of fumbles in that game? I know one lead to an Arkansas TD. Half the yardage on the tying drive was the result of bogus penalties, and on the drive that lead to the winning field goal he was saved from throwing a pic in the end zone by offensive pass interference (which wasn’t called).
This is the kind of shit that makes people hate Tebow.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
by Zoltar on Oct 21, 2009 12:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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