The Fate of the Tennessee Three
So, it's the day after Prius-gate or Pellet-palooza or whatever we end up calling the idiocy that went down in the Pilot gas station in Knoxville early Wednesday morning.
As you are probably aware, Janzen Jackson was released on his own recognizance and Mike Edwards was released on bond yesterday. Nu'Keese Richardson remains in jail. This is the morning summary of events over at Rocky Top Talk...
[Jackson's] attorney says he hopes to prove Jackson's innocence of the whole thing in just a couple of days. As unlikely as this sounded yesterday morning, it could have something to do with reports that Jackson was inside the store at the time the other two were attempting to rob the victims and with reports that at least one of the people involved did not possess marijuana.
So where do we go from here? Well, there are still a ton of cheap jokes to be made at the Volunteer's expense but it's worth taking a moment to step back and look at what the actual situation concerning this matter consists of before letting ourselves slip into the warm and comforting embrace of hyperbole.
Richard Pittman over at And The Valley Shook happens to be a criminal defense attorney in his spare time and he has a very salient point about "criminal activity" we should keep in mind.
The vast majority of criminals and other people who need defense attorneys are not malicious thugs. Most of them are just stupid, or temporarily stupid, and mean no actual harm to anyone. You don't necessarily want to be good buddies with most of them, unless you like having lots of drama in your life, but for the most part the people who occupy our jails and prisons are better described a "ignorant" than "mean".
He goes on to surmise that the incident in the gas station parking lot seems to be more of a childish prank than an outright criminal offense. Given the ludicrous details of the event, that seems pretty much on the mark.
If so, then the Tennessee coaching staff and administration has to tread very carefully in how they proceed in terms of punishment. While they have to do something prior to the game against Ole Miss on Saturday, the final decision may take a little longer to be handed down. Referring again to RTT:
Lane Kiffin said yesterday that he'll deal with all three situations but only after they have gathered all of the pertinent information, which, as much as some fans and most rivals think suggests a frantic search for loopholes, is the most prudent and fair move.
And, as much as I despise the guy, this is clearly the right move. Handing down the inncorrect punishment now instead of the proper one at a later date is infinitely worse than exculpiating the offenders. We would certainly ask this if the situation involved our players.
So when should we expect them to do anything?
Two elements of the case are likely to have a vast effect on what is decided concerning these players fate. And both of them will remain pretty much outside the public eye until finally decided. The first and most important is what prosecutors decide (or don't decide) to formally charge these guys with.
When you read stories on the interweb today that insist the trio have been charged with armed robbery keep in mind that this is wrong. Prosecutors charge people with crime, not cops. And it's attempted armed robbery, not armed robbery.
To dip our toe in the legal point here (and I welcome any insight to be offered by your practicing attorneys out there), these players have been arrested by police on suspicion of attempted armed robbery. But cops only need probable cause to do that - that is, enough evidence to believe a crime has be committed.
Prosecutors, on the other hand, have to have a heck of a lot more than that to make a case. And that's the threshold they will need to meet in order to actually charge these guys with anything. As a quick viewing of any Law & Order episode would inform you, they have to have enough evidence of criminal activity to win in court in front of a jury or, as the law says, "beyond a reasonable doubt."
Ask yourself if you seriously think a Tennessee jury trial would put these guys in jail for a decade or so given the circumstances we know so far.
So, in lieu of that, what is likely to be the deciding factor are the ancillary charges? First, by using a pellet gun they avoid any nasty handgun charges that would have really landed them in hot water. But there is the whole drug angle. With the drugs found in the car and on the person of the woman involved that raises some serious questions in terms of the players culpability.
Kiffin and company certainly have no obligation to abide by the decisions of the legal system when making their decisions in terms of these players fate with the program. But these decisions by the legal system are likely to be the most important single factors in whatever they decision they choose to make. So we have to wait the obligatory three days for that.
The players have already done an act of galactic stupidity and the situation is now out of their hands. It remains to be seen if the UT coach will match that or not. I point all the above not to make apologies for or defend Kiffin but to make it clear what we are going to judge his forthcoming decision on. And while we speculate on the possible punishments and meaning of all this we should certainly keep in mind it is all just that - speculation.
UPDATE 12:31 PM The three players will not suit up for the Ole Miss game this Saturday, according to a UT spokesperson.
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Well . . .
They can show their team spirit in those orange jumpsuits.
Just looking at the positives here.
by MeanBobMean on Nov 13, 2009 10:04 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Do you think the Vols
will be running any jailbreak screens this game?
I bleed crimson and white...I puke Vol puke orange. RTR
by SugarBowl93 on Nov 13, 2009 10:18 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
It looks like they'll be trying to keep Jackson on the team.
I have a very hard time believing that he just happened to be at the gas station at 2 am when his buddies were outside committing armed robbery. I also think it’s telling that it’s been reported that when Jackson approached the car he said, “We gotta go”, not “what the fuck are you doing guys”.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
by Zoltar on Nov 13, 2009 10:52 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
Whether or not Jackson was actually asking for the money is irrelevant in my opinion. He was with the guys. He most likely knows what type of guys they were. He had to have known they had drugs. And that statement he made doesn’t help him in my opinion either.
If he really wanted to prove he wasn’t going to be a part of that, he shouldn’t have continued to ride with them, and it wouldn’t have hurt for him to report them. It’s not a smart idea to ride along with them knowing what they did.
Maybe he shouldn’t be kicked off the team like Richardson and Edwards should, but I don’t think he should play the rest of this year, and maybe even some next year.
by jsholt969 on Nov 13, 2009 4:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Janzen Jackson has attorney Don Bosch representing him.
That’s all I needed to hear to know Jackson is likely remaining with the football team.
Bosch is the go-to guy when it comes to legal defense for UT athletes. It’s a clear sign the Vols’ administration is standing behind him and backing up his story.
So, can UT pay this guy’s legal fees or would that be considered extra benefits?
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
by Zoltar on Nov 13, 2009 11:03 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
http://blogs.knoxnews.com/askgriff/2009/11/tea_leaves_say_kiffins_keeping.html
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
by Zoltar on Nov 13, 2009 11:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In my opinion, the correct course of action for three guys arrested for attempted armed robbery is indefinite suspension until the matter is resolved and then either potential reinstatement, suspension, or dismissal. Letting these guys practice (and maybe play) while you’re trying to figure out if they held someone up at gunpoint seems a little weak.
Second, it is entirely possible that these guys have already been charged. In fact, if Richardson is still in jail, odds are that the charges have, in fact, been filed (or will be very soon), since there is a very hard limit as to how long you can keep someone locked up without filing some sort of charge against them.
Third . . .
Prosecutors, on the other hand, have to have a heck of a lot more than that to make a case. And that’s the threshold they will need to meet in order to actually charge these guys with anything.
Not exactly. They need to convince a jury of guilt “beyond a reasonable doubt” to win the case at trial. They do not need to meet that bar to simply file charges.
Finally, there are a ton of options the prosecutors have at this point for charges less serious than “attempted armed robbery”, so if they don’t think they have enough juice to get that, they can choose a lesser included crime that will be more sympathetic with the jury.
Either way, the fact that these guys haven’t been suspended yet is just silly.
I'm wrong all the time.
by PeteHoliday on Nov 13, 2009 11:10 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Either way, the fact that these guys haven’t been suspended yet is just silly.
Its UT..what did you expect?
Scoring against Alabama will be like birthing a child: rare, painful, and messy. - The Ghost of Jay Cutler
by bammer on Nov 13, 2009 11:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
if you (or anyone else) can dig up a link indicating the charges being filed by the DA
then please post it. but, i suspect, they are being very circumspect in handling this as well given the amount of attention it is likely to draw.
also, i’m making no argument that they should or should not be suspended. i just felt it worthwhile to step back a moment and look at the particulars of the situation before the festivities began today.
that all said, i have every amount of faith in the world that kiffin is going to screw this whole thing up royally. i just want to be sure we are completely clear on what we are excoriating him for when time comes.
Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.
by kleph on Nov 13, 2009 12:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have confidence in Coach Kiffin as a disciplinarian.
I’m sure he’ll straighten these guys up with one lap around playing field!
UT's new recruiting slogan: You can go to USCe and WORK at a gas station or come to UT and ROB that gas station.
by rhYno on Nov 13, 2009 1:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Not even laps around the field...
all Kiffin needs to do is talk to them – he has such a way with words, I’m sure they’ll feel sorry about what they did.
I bleed crimson and white...I puke Vol puke orange. RTR
by SugarBowl93 on Nov 13, 2009 4:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Either way, the fact that these guys haven’t been suspended yet is just silly.
Kiffin’s too busy complaining about the officiating from a game he lost over 3 weeks ago.
UT's new recruiting slogan: You can go to USCe and WORK at a gas station or come to UT and ROB that gas station.
by rhYno on Nov 13, 2009 1:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I charge all three of them with
five counts of douchebaggery, one count of sodomy (Jackson), and two counts of reprehensible behavior (playing for Tennessee).
Court’s adjourned. Put them in the iron maiden.
MATRIX: Bennett, I thought you were--
BENNETT: Dead? You thought wrong. Ever since you had me thrown out of the unit, I've been waiting to pay you back. Do you know what today is, Matrix? Payday.
by Bamagrad on Nov 13, 2009 1:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
This case actually gives Kiffin
the chance to stand up and be the man or to continue to let the inmates run the asylum.
I know it is ancient history but Coach Bryant kicked both Namath and Stabler off the team for breaking curfew. After serving time away and missing games (Namath) they changed their attitudes and were allowed back on. But, all they did was break Bryant’s rules, not rob a store at gun point.
Saban has also not put up with any misbehavior. I mean he sat an All-American and probably lost us a few games for the text book scam. Again these guys did not rob a store or get the police called in, but they were still suspended. True we have had some bad guys in the last few years, but if you notice Elder and Johns are GONE.
So the question is will Kiffin kick these guys off the team or give them a pass? I’m guessing they all plead to a lesser charge like verbally threating someone, and then get finded plus community service, and stay on the team. But I’m basing that on my belief that Lane Kiffin is an idiot.
By the way, and I’m serious, if football players are defended by a big time lawyer and UT pays for that, of it he lawyer, a UT supporter does, it for free, it has got to be an NCAA violation. No way the university defends a normal student in a similar situation. Someone needs to alert the NCAA.
I hate the NCAA more than UT & AU combined. At least with UT & AU you got a fighting chance.
by 5026 on Nov 13, 2009 4:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Kiffin will be viewed by the players as soft.
If he does not put his foot down and throw the book at these guys.
by Crimsoncaller on Nov 13, 2009 5:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Kleph
As a quick viewing of any Law & Order episode would inform you, they have to have enough evidence of criminal activity to win in court in front of a jury or, as the law says, “beyond a reasonable doubt.”
"Hell, no! A tie is like kissing your sister!"
by LifelongBammer on Nov 13, 2009 7:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, I hit post instead of preview
I don’t claim to be an expert. I am a sencond generation police officer with over 20 years experience. Many of those years as a criminal investigator hip deep in this kind of thing. With that said, I am going to have to implore you to please not use any network crime drama as a legitimate source of reference when it comes to things like this. Sure, they know some words like “reasonable doubt” and “probable cause” just like a network NASA based show would know words like “big fire” and “launch pad”.
Certainly if a case actually gets beyond the plea bargain phase and goes to court before a jury, which this one never will, a prosecutor has to determine if he can win the case “beyond a reasonable doubt” That decision, in most political jurisdictions, is made somewhere after the initial charge (issue of criminal warrant and formal charge) and before Grand Jury. The first is determinend by a warrant magistrate (issuance of a warrant) and the second probable cause decision (indictment) is determined by a Grand Jury of 25-50 people who where all too stupid to figure out how to get out of Grand Jury. They are all puppets and don’t know it. Certainly you have heard the term " A good prosecutor could indict a ham sandwich"
As to the notion that prosecutors determine when to prosecute, not cops. You are absolutely right in most jurisdictions. However except in the cases of murder, crimes against children or the indigent ( and politically charged crimes during election time ) prosecutors base that decision very much on the wishes of the victim. This victim has already stated in several media venues that he doesn’t care. He doesn’t want to prosecute. Apparently he is a Vol fan and does not want to see the offenders get into trouble…. from what I have been hearing all day.
Think about it. If you are a prosecutor in an armed robbery trial, and it is armed robbery.. pellet gun or howitzer… stolen items or not.. it is armed robbery by the strick definition of the law in nearly every state… who will be your main witness. The victim. If the victim does not wish to proceed and will not cooperate with you, then why would you proceed?
From a criminal standpoint, a theft is not a theft unless someone is mad about it. If the victim is not mad enough about it to pursue prosecution then it is a gift. The same way with a robbery. If the victim was not killed or injured beyond the ability to make a decision on prosecution and does not wish to prosecute, then it is an advanced theft with extra props and drama. That is just the way it works.
Real gun or pellet gun? It doesn’t matter in the initial charge or indictment. It doesn’t matter if he stuck his finger in the pocket of his coat, as long as he represented it as a gun, then it is an armed robbery and considered a violent crime. If it turns out to not be a real gun, then that is just fodder for plea bargaining.
I used ten thousand words to say one paragrah. Legally, this will be a non issue. Actually it would not surprise me one single bit to find out in the end that this is just a “Balloon Boy” style hoax. I promise you, no black helicopters over my house.
The angle? Kiffin’s appeal to the “drama gueen” desire of every high school football player that has ever pulled on a pair of cleats.
The whole story makes about as much sense as the “Balloon Boy” story. 3 major players all being that stupid at the same time. I just don’t buy it.
"Hell, no! A tie is like kissing your sister!"
by LifelongBammer on Nov 13, 2009 8:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i'm not using a crime drama as a source...
it was merely the most likely example which a general reader would have knowledge of.
Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.
by kleph on Nov 13, 2009 8:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Aight then..LOL.. but Yeah you did but it is ok
"Hell, no! A tie is like kissing your sister!"
by LifelongBammer on Nov 13, 2009 10:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i tell you what...
next time you get off your ass and post something if it means so much to you.
Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.
by kleph on Nov 13, 2009 10:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, he posted quite a bit...
…and his perspective as a police officer was a welcome one. Uncalled for to attack him and in such an ugly way too IMO. Do you EVER think anything you write could be said a better way? Most writers don’t seem to and immediately go on the defensive over some small criticism. I didn’t think anything of the Law and Order reference, but then I’m not in law enforcement.
You had me at "ROLL TIDE"!!!
by bamavicki on Nov 14, 2009 9:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gonna have to side with vicki here....
I bleed crimson and white...I puke Vol puke orange. RTR
by SugarBowl93 on Nov 14, 2009 4:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Vicki
"Hell, no! A tie is like kissing your sister!"
by LifelongBammer on Nov 15, 2009 9:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Really Kleph? "Get off my ass and post something" ????
Did you read my post? I am going to be honest with you man… I am getting more than a little bored with your hypersensitivity to members that disagree with you… and I am not just talking about this thread.
There have been way too many before. And you are a writer on this blog?
"Hell, no! A tie is like kissing your sister!"
by LifelongBammer on Nov 14, 2009 9:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe so, but if they keep all 3 they are going to take a major PR hit
I can see that being a HUGE negative recruiting tool. “Do you want your kid going to a school where the let felons stay on the team?”
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
by Zoltar on Nov 13, 2009 9:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am going to have to implore you to please not use any network crime drama as a legitimate source of reference when it comes to things like this.
Law & Order is actually fantastic on the law. The courtroom scenes are dramatized, yes, but as far as the law involved, it’s very accurate.
All the talk about the victim’s wishes is interesting, but irrelevant when we’re talking about weapons-related felonies. Will the victim’s wishes be considered? Yes. In this case, though, I cannot imagine the prosecutor liking “nah, don’t prosecute those guys, they’re football players and that’s just how knoxville is sometimes” considering it’s his job to make it NOT just how Knoxville is some times.
Then you have the fact that only one of the three victims has been interviewed.
From a criminal standpoint, a theft is not a theft unless someone is mad about it. If the victim is not mad enough about it to pursue prosecution then it is a gift. The same way with a robbery.
This is just not accurate with respect to robbery, and it’s absolutely not applicable to attempted robbery, which doesn’t require something actually be taken.
As for the balloon boy reference . . . you realize the parents pled guilty in that case, right?
I'm wrong all the time.
by PeteHoliday on Nov 14, 2009 2:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Where's Horatio
As any episode of CSI:Miami will inform you, even though an entire team of investigators has gone over the scene of the crime in great detail, Horatio could be there for 4 seconds and almost instantly find the BB in question that proves all three are guilty of said douchebaggery.
Seriously, though, maybe I’m just “old school,” but all I would need to hear is that the players were out at 2 a.m. riding in a car with some whore in possession of marijuana, and you are OFF THE TEAM! Done. You don’t deserve to wear our jersey.
Dr. BamaFrazier is IN!
by BamaFrazier on Nov 13, 2009 8:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Exactly... while I am trying to figure out how to send my son to college... Exactly
"Hell, no! A tie is like kissing your sister!"
by LifelongBammer on Nov 15, 2009 9:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pete.. Really? and how many actual robbery trials have you been involved in?
This is just not accurate with respect to robbery, and it’s absolutely not applicable to attempted robbery, which doesn’t require something actually be taken.
"Hell, no! A tie is like kissing your sister!"
by LifelongBammer on Nov 14, 2009 10:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah Pete, this was a "tounge in cheek" reference. Come on man.
As for the balloon boy reference . . . you realize the parents pled guilty in that case, right?
"Hell, no! A tie is like kissing your sister!"
by LifelongBammer on Nov 15, 2009 1:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

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