Did Arenas Signal for a Fair Catch?
With under two minutes left in the half, Alabama downed a P.J. Fitzgerald punt at the Mississippi State 1-yard-line and then held the Bulldogs to a three-and-out, hoping to set themselves up for a quick score before half-time.
The Heath Hutchins punt didn't quite make it to return man Javier Arenas, who attempted to keep the return team away from it by waving them off. A fortunate bounce landed right in his arms and he took off -- only to have the flags fly in, the whistles blow, and the Tide be assessed a 5 yard penalty for attempting to return a ball after a fair catch signal.
'Bama fans, and even Eli Gold, were understandably confused, since even on the replay it did not appear that Arenas called for a fair catch. At halftime, Gold conferred with the officials who told him that a rule change for 2010 allows any motion by the return man to suffice for a fair catch signal.
This isn't entirely true -- it doesn't seem that this rule has changed at all from 2009 -- but it appears that the refs made an arguably correct call on the play.
NCAA football rules 2-7-2 and 2-7-3 define a valid and invalid fair-catch signal. They read as follows:
Valid Signal
ARTICLE 2. A valid signal is a signal given by a player of Team B who has obviously signaled his intention by extending one hand only clearly above his head and waving that hand from side to side of his body more than once.Invalid Signal
ARTICLE 3. An invalid signal is any waving signal by a player of Team B that does not meet the requirements of a valid signal (Rule 6-5-3).
So, as we can see, one hand above the head waving back and forth signifies a fair catch. According to 2-7-3, however, any other waving signal is considered an "invalid signal."
Rule 6-5-2 defines the penalty for attempting to advance the ball after a fair catch signal (emphasis supplied):
No Advance
ARTICLE 2. No Team B player shall carry a caught or recovered ball more than two steps in any direction after a valid or invalid fair catch signal by any Team B player (A.R. 6-5-2-I-IV).
PENALTY—Dead-ball foul. Five yards from the succeeding spot [S7 and S21].
The key to this rule is that an invalid fair catch signal works exactly the same way as a valid one for the return man, the primary difference (for everyone else) being that making an invalid signal provides less protection from getting hit after the catch.
The first thing to understand about the construction of this rule is that it serves a very important purpose: to keep return teams from employing trickery (fake fair-catch signals) to gain an unfair advantage on the return. Expecting players on coverage teams to be able to distinguish from a barely correct and a barely incorrect fair catch signal is a recipe for disaster, so anything that even slightly resembles a fair catch signal is going to be treated like one (valid or invalid).
If you're suspicious that the scenario that played out against MSU might not be a situation that the rule authors had contemplated, consider approved interpretation 6-5-VI:
Team A’s scrimmage kick is rolling beyond the neutral zone when B17 alerts his teammates to stay away from the ball by a "get away" signal at his waist or below. RULING: Invalid signal. The ball is dead by rule when either team recovers.
So from the above, it's pretty clear that the officials were easily within the letter of the law on the Arenas call but, if you're anything like me, your first reaction is something like: "Baloney, return guys wave their teammates away from kicks all the time and they're not flagged." After spending some time this afternoon thinking about it, I came up with two possible explanations for this apparent discrepancy that might suffice for an answer:
For starters, we're definitely talking about a judgment call made by the official as to how close what Arenas did was to a valid fair catch signal. The official thought it was close enough to be confusing, and thus considered it an invalid fair catch signal.This is an issue, though, because it seems to conflict with everything we think we know about how fair catches work, and it could leave an awful lot of confusing standards for return teams to try to keep up with.
The other option I've come up with was that the primary deficiency with Arenas' signal was the fact that he made it with only one hand. In order to be valid, a fair catch signal must be a) above the head, b) one hand only , and c) waved more than once. You can bet that any waving motion above the head is going to be considered a fair catch signal. Arenas, as you can see from the image above, was waving his hand at chest level, waved only one hand, and did it multiple times. Which puts him about 45 degrees of inclination from a valid fair catch signal . . . which is pretty close.
My guess (and this is purely speculation on my part) is that if Arenas waved both hands -- maybe like an "incomplete pass" officiating signal or even waving them in a direction like a "wide left" signal -- he would have avoided the appearance that he was making an invalid fair catch signal and might have been allowed to return the ball.
So it appears that the officiating crew made the correct call on Saturday night, but it was still a frustrating situation and I wouldn't be at all surprised if this is something that the coaching staff covers in some detail with the special teams unit this week in practice.
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Comments
Thanks for this.
That was something I was wondering about during and after the game. I didn’t know the exact rules behind it, but I could certainly see why the officials would interpret what he did as a fair catch signal, though at the time I thought they just misread it instead of thinking he’d made an invalid signal. Good work, as always on the legalese.
I bleed crimson and white...I puke Vol puke orange. RTR
by SugarBowl93 on Nov 15, 2009 8:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Good work Pete.
I doubt Javy knew this rule. But I can see why the rule was changed because invalid signals could be to a returners advantage.
Too bad Javy got called because this kick was about the only one he could really return last night. I think he is actually fairly close to setting an NCAA career record for punt return yardage but running out of games. Hoepfully he can get some returns against Chatt.
I hate the NCAA more than UT & AU combined. At least with UT & AU you got a fighting chance.
by 5026 on Nov 15, 2009 8:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
after reading all that i have to say...
…just chalking it up to a conspiracy is a hell of a lot simpler and less complicated for everyone.
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by kleph on Nov 15, 2009 9:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah Kleph, but then we would have to be like barners or Vols... LOL
I don’t want to be a barner or a Vol
"Hell, no! A tie is like kissing your sister!"
by LifelongBammer on Nov 16, 2009 4:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it's like they all came from nibiru or something.
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by kleph on Nov 16, 2009 5:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see how it could've been interpreted (by the players) as a fair catch signal,
but I guess we’ve got to adjust to these rules. However, there was no rule that required the scoreboard operator to run 4 extra seconds off the clock just before the final play of that drive. And no rule requiring the refs to allow it. Bottom Line: Either way, we got screwed, period.
by crimsontsunami on Nov 15, 2009 9:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Well, the point is, I think, that any waving motion that is not a valid fair catch signal is an invalid one . . . it’s not really a new rule, just a strict enforcement of an existing rule.
I'm wrong all the time.
by PeteHoliday on Nov 15, 2009 9:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So basically,
even though it’s an invalid signal, they still consider it a fair catch signal because it might be used to deceive opponents. Makes sense. I was yelling quite a bit at the end of the half, but I have no real problem with the call now. Good post.
by crimsontsunami on Nov 15, 2009 9:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Forget “invalid signal.” Forget “strict interpretation.” Forget “judgment call.” I’d be happy with “consistent interpretation” of the rules. This call smelled of inconsistency in officiating.
by squinky86 on Nov 15, 2009 9:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Actually,
I’ve seen guys called for an invalid signal for waving both hands in front of themselves. The refs this year are interpreting any waving motion of the hands to be a fair catch signal, valid or invalid.
by rugman11 on Nov 15, 2009 10:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
And I'm pretty sure
this is what started it all.
by rugman11 on Nov 15, 2009 10:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
yeah that play was messed up
the refs flat out suck sometimes.
welcome to the SEC kiffykins...
by tempebamafan on Nov 16, 2009 9:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that's why I don't get why everyone is making sec officiating out to be the worst ever this year.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
by Zoltar on Nov 16, 2009 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
because the logjam at the top of the standings...
makes it tough to bitch about the BCS like we typically see at about this point in the season.
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by kleph on Nov 16, 2009 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
More and more HD TV sets in homes. More and more access to and participation in real-time media. Technology brings every. single. call. under advanced and continuous review.
Combine that with the SEC botching easy calls in close, high-profile games and a media that will sell whatever people are buying (Helllllloooo conspiracy theorists) and you end up with a pretty obvious narrative for columnists and beat reporters to latch onto.
I’m not actually convinced that the officiating is any worse this year, except that the screw ups have come at very unfortunate times.
I'm wrong all the time.
by PeteHoliday on Nov 16, 2009 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and there is the media scrutiny factor as well...
putting aside the tendency of announcers to confidently aver their opinions on close calls and then upbraid officials for the rest of the telecast if it goes the other way – the very nature of television draws unnatural attention to these plays.
on normal time outs they cut away from the action and go to commercials. thus “shutting up” for a minute and then picking up events a minute later. but because the replays are not set to a specific time they stay with them, replay them over and over and break down every aspect of them.
i really noticed this effect during the lsu game. while in the stands, we just waited to hear what the official called (partially cause of a screw up with the microphone) and when it went our way we continued cheering. there wasn’t a massive pause where we were besieged with the play over and over so, as a result, there wasn’t a real change in the feeling in the stands when the ruling was announced.
and i kind of got this same impression from lsu fans after the game as well. they were almost all upset over their team’s play but i can’t think of a single person i spoke with or heard in passing insisting that play changed the course of the game.
the solution for this is simple – get rid of instant replay and live with the margin of error for calls on the field. there will always be screw-ups by the zebras but that at least keeps expectations of their performance within a reasonable level.
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by kleph on Nov 16, 2009 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the better solution is to just give the replay officials the same technology we have in our homes and the ability to see any of the angles the TV cameras got.
I don’t care the controversy, really, I want the calls to be right as often as possible. Just because it can’t be perfect doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be as close as possible.
I'm wrong all the time.
by PeteHoliday on Nov 16, 2009 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with Kleph on this to a large degree
the solution for this is simple – get rid of instant replay and live with the margin of error for calls on the field. there will always be screw-ups by the zebras but that at least keeps expectations of their performance within a reasonable level.
I like the instant replay to a degree but it seems these days like it is placing unreasonable pressure on the officials. Certainly it is their job to get it right but everytime they make a call they are subject to the “frame by frame” scutiny of millions of viewers.
I can’t help but compare that to my trade. I am a police officer. I have a split second to make a decision, then some lawyer has a thousand times more time to judge my decision. It certainly affects the way you do your job.
Realistically though, it makes me do my job better for often than not
"Hell, no! A tie is like kissing your sister!"
by LifelongBammer on Nov 16, 2009 5:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry guys, I still haven't figured out these box quotes.
"Hell, no! A tie is like kissing your sister!"
by LifelongBammer on Nov 16, 2009 5:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
by the way...
i offer that proposal for the sake of argument, not as a realistic solution to this problem.
Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.
by kleph on Nov 16, 2009 5:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And how about
the fact that so many games are on TV now? 43 games were broadcast at least locally last week. The high profile calls obviously wouldn’t have been affected, but six years ago that UCONN-Louisville play never would have made ESPN because nobody would have cared what happened between a C-USA team and an independent team, so the game never would have been televised.
by rugman11 on Nov 16, 2009 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That too, yeah. Good point.
I'm wrong all the time.
by PeteHoliday on Nov 16, 2009 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well that was big east refs 3 years ago....
soooooo……?
welcome to the SEC kiffykins...
by tempebamafan on Nov 17, 2009 9:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a good rule and well applied
I don’t understand why a punt returner would ever need to wave his arms for anything other than a fair catch anyway. The players on his team are not looking at him.
by M. Johnson Defender on Nov 15, 2009 11:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
If the punt is uncatchable, the returner is taught to yell “Peter” or whatever codeword they have telling his teammates to clear the way as to avoid getting hit by a bouncing football which could lead to a turnover. Also, returners are usually taught to give the incomplete catch signal as well as holler whatever codeword they may have to avoid the kick. If Javy used both hands as opposed to just one while making this signal I’m pretty sure his returning the ball would have been legitimate since it is pretty universal to do these things as a punt returner.
by dsz002 on Nov 15, 2009 11:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
actually, they count that as a fair catch signal as well. I’ve seen it happen.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
by Zoltar on Nov 15, 2009 11:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Usually a moot point
So from the above, it’s pretty clear that the officials were easily within the letter of the law on the Arenas call but, if you’re anything like me, your first reaction is something like: “Baloney, return guys wave their teammates away from kicks all the time and they’re not flagged”.
if you think about it, how often do guys wave all the blockers away from the ball then try to return it? That would be setting yourself up for an ass-whuppin. If they wave everyone off they will generally get away from it themselves or dive on it to stop the roll. Very rare play, very rare flag- but the right call. The clock, however, is another story…
by J Tadpole on Nov 16, 2009 7:55 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
this is what i finally realized as well...
despite how absurd the rules seem if you take them at face value. basically, if i understand it correctly, any motion of a returner’s hands makes his advancing the ball impossible. it’s either interpretable as a valid fair catch or an invalid fair catch and the outcome is the same.
as pete pointed out in his post: “Return guys wave their teammates away from kicks all the time and they’re not flagged.” and, on first glance, this seems pretty obvious.
but this assumes the returner can advance the ball. which isn’t typically the case when a motion is made. yes, we see players make this waving motion all the time but how many times have we really seen a player making it get the ball and try to advance? usually, it is followed by players of the kicking team converging on the ball and letting take that last roll toward their endzone before downing it.
any returner making a fair catch is assuming he will not run. and any returner waving away his teammates is as well. basically both motions carry the same import with his blockers heading downfield – they abort their assignments and deliberately avoid the ball. not the ideal situation for returning the thing.
the situation on saturday seems to have been a bit of a fluke in that arenas waved off his blockers but then found he had possession of the ball with a good opportunity to advance. but this seems to be an exception to the usual situation no matter how counter-intuitive that might seem on first consideration.
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by kleph on Nov 16, 2009 8:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How many returners
feel like they can return ANY kick put at them? I think if Javy wasn’t specifically told situations where he was NOT supposed to return a kick, he’d try to return every kick he caught. He’d return one even if all 11 opposing players were in a circle around him as he made the catch. He’s that good, knows it, and does a great job with it. Usually it’s only when you’re dealing with a player like him that you find your team in this situation b/c usually, as you say, if they’re waving their own players away from the ball, they don’t have a chance to return it.
I bleed crimson and white...I puke Vol puke orange. RTR
by SugarBowl93 on Nov 16, 2009 9:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
one thing i've been very impressed with this year...
…is arenas’ decision making on returns. you are right, if he had his druthers he’d try and return every kick. and, in the past, he made some breathtaking plays doing just that. but he also made some very dangerous mistakes that could have cost us as dearly.
he’s not doing that now. he’s been making solid decisions on what kicks to bring back and which ones to let go. he hasn’t been taking as many to the house but he’s not gotten taken down for an unnecessary loss or fumble either.
Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.
by kleph on Nov 16, 2009 9:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that it's benefitted the team big time...
I miss his TD returns, but I’ll gladly give them up just knowing that he is not going to put us in a bad situation every 2 games or so with a fumble or something. He has given us great field position all year long, and even though he isn’t in the end zone every other game this year, he has still put us in a position to score. Put that along with his lights out defense, and he is among my top 5 players on the team.
I bleed crimson and white...I puke Vol puke orange. RTR
by SugarBowl93 on Nov 16, 2009 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd for truth
I'm wrong all the time.
by PeteHoliday on Nov 16, 2009 12:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Question
I thought after the ball hit the ground, there can’t be a fair catch? Does that rule just not apply by way of the “invalid fair catch signal” which prohibited the return in the first place? I don’t have a replay handy, but I would think that if Javy signaled after the ball hit the ground, then there can’t be a fair catch signal (valid or invalid), so he should be able to return it. If he signaled before the ball hit the ground, then I suppose it was an invalid signal and therefore unreturnable.
by Espyonage on Nov 16, 2009 10:12 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
that scenario seems to be covered...
in interpretation 6-5-VI cited above (note my italics):
Team A’s scrimmage kick is rolling beyond the neutral zone when B17 alerts his teammates to stay away from the ball by a “get away” signal at his waist or below. RULING: Invalid signal. The ball is dead by rule when either team recovers.
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by kleph on Nov 16, 2009 10:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ahh, I see.
Thanks. There was some discussion in the stands about not being able to signal for a fair catch after the ball hits the ground, but none of us took into account the “invalid signal” rule. Thanks for that. Bang-up job, as always.
by Espyonage on Nov 16, 2009 10:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It was a bad call period.
Sorry, but it was. Under the interpretation used for that play, any motion of the hand can be considered a fair catch signal.
IMO, the best way to see if it was a fair catch signal or not is to look at the elbow and shoulder. Is either bent in an upward motion? Nope. Straight out in a pointing direction. As you shoulder is just below your head, then any motion with your arm is going to be relatively up high. But since neither is bent like that, can’t say it was a fair catch call by any stretch.
I don’t know if that play is reviewable or what. Probably not since they blew the play dead on the field. But I’d bet if reviewed(properly, not like the interception against LSU) it wouldn’t have been a penalty in the very least.
They screwed up, it happens. Thankfully it wasn’t a game costing call, and hopefully they get it right next time. Can’t let it get to the point where you can’t motion to your players, there is a reason why it has to be over the head.
by cal n on Nov 16, 2009 5:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
that is not correct...
by the letter of the rule a motion of the had is either a valid fair catch signal or an invalid fair catch signal. the end result is the same though, the ball cannot be advanced once the signal is made.
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by kleph on Nov 16, 2009 5:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the problem is it wasn't a fair catch signal of either valid or invalid
I understand what you are saying. But as he wasn’t intending to make a fair catch signal of any sort, I don’t see how it can be considered a valid or invalid fair catch signal.
Basically, it means that he is not allowed to do anything at all, point out any defenders etc. I don’t see how all movement of the hands/arm can fall into either a valid or invalid fair catch call.
When I think invalid fair catch, it’s when the guy waves his hand lower, but still in a waving left to right motion with the elbow bent up, arm from the shoulder down, and with the palm of the hand open. We do see those from time to time, and they can be confusing. It’s the fact that his elbow is straight when he is waving that makes me say it was not a fair catch signal of either kind.
If any such movement is by default an attempt at a fair catch signal, then wouldn’t they be teaching them to never move their hands and such? I’ve never played college ball or anything, but I’ve never heard of that being taught.
But I am going off only when I seen it in game. I have not seen a replay other than during the game. It surely didn’t look like he was waving to me at the time, and was a bad call. And I wasn’t looking for an invalid signal at the time either, so I am open to change my mind if I can get a better look.
Still, I think there is a difference is there and not all movement would fall into those 2 categories. It’s more a matter of if what he did falls under an invalid call or not. Does he make a waving type signal? Or more of a pointing type thing? That is what determines it IMO. Maybe I can catch a replay of the game.
by cal n on Nov 16, 2009 7:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
All you have to do
is read the rules. Really. It’s that simple: “An invalid signal is any waving signal by a player of Team B that does not meet the requirements of a valid signal”
So, the only questions you need to ask are these:
1. Did Arenas make a “waving signal”? Yes – he waved his arms in front of his body.
2. Did his signal meet the requirements of a valid signal? No – his hand was not above his head.
It was an invalid fair catch signal whether you like the call or not.
I'm wrong all the time.
by PeteHoliday on Nov 17, 2009 10:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is there a difference between pointing and waving?
Well it got called invalid if I like it or not, that is surely true.
But if the rule is taken in the manner being presented here, then it means the returner is not allowed to point out anything to the players etc.
If that is the case, the fine. But I see that happening all the time without the invalid fair catch penalty.
by cal n on Dec 1, 2009 3:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey Pete
Javy did make a comment during a post game interview a few weeks ago that he has some gestures that he makes before a return that could go either way. Or the way he makes the signals that kind of leaves it open to interpretation by design. Purposefully ambiguous so he may have a chance to run it if he sees a seam and just see what happens. It seemed to be a little joke that he made at the time.
Please don’t ask me to prove that because I just don’t have time to go through a half dozen Arenas post game interviews to find it and I cannot remember which game it was. He did say it though.
I wonder if it is possible that he might be under more scrutiney with his signals because he made that statement publicly. I am sure that if I saw it, the zebras in the fishbowl probably saw it as well. What do you think?
"Hell, no! A tie is like kissing your sister!"
by LifelongBammer on Nov 16, 2009 5:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
i'd very much like to see that statment if you do find the time to dig it up.
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by kleph on Nov 16, 2009 5:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I saw where he said that too.
I wondered as soon as the play happened if he was trying to pull one over on the officials and got caught.
by Espyonage on Nov 16, 2009 10:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Found it.
Here’s an excerpt:
Deciding when not to field a punt is one decision he must make, especially near the goal line. Deciding when to make a fair catch is a critical split-second judgment call.
“If the ball is hanging up there a long time … I’m calling a fair catch, ‘cause I can’t tell anything,” Arenas says. “I’m focused on the ball. It’s been there for like 10 minutes. Coach could come down and talk to me. You know what I mean? If it’s just a regular kick and I feel somebody coming, I’m going to fair catch the ball. A fair catch is never a bad decision. Even if it’s not the best decision, you can’t go wrong with a fair catch.”
Sometimes he regrets waving a hand in the air, somewhat in surrender.
“It’s pretty frustrating, because that could’ve been the one,” he says. “That’s why I just wave my hand one time, just in case the referees don’t see them.”
And here’s the link to the article it came from.
by Espyonage on Nov 16, 2009 10:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
rewatching the game tonight
i noticed that the official on the field said the penalty was for “advancing the ball after calling for a fair catch.”
which makes the explanation given to gold sound… um, kind of fos.
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by kleph on Nov 17, 2009 7:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

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