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Shula's All Americans?



Ok, several Aubies I know are claiming that Saban is just winning with Shula's players and once they are gone Bama will start losing. Someone even went so far as to say "Yeah you had 6 All Americans but those are Shula's All Americans."

Well again this is just plain dumb. Our 2010 team does have many players recruited by Shula. But, the depth of the team is clearly the players Saban has brought in. And, Saban's influence on Shula's players is undeniable.

So, take a look at our 6 All Americans and you see something pretty interesting.

Mike Johnson:  Mike Johnson is a Shula recruit and the truth is he would likely be at least be All SEC if Shula were still coaching. But in the case of Mike Johnson, the off season program that has been instituted by Saban has made all the difference.  In the 2005 media guide where it talks about the 2005 recruits (including Mike Johnson) Mike only got 3 lines of print. Only Scott Deaton, got fewer lines with 2 lines. 29 guys got more lines of print. Bottom line, Shula and his coaches were not expecting much from Mike Johnson.

Leigh Tiffin: Tiffin did come to Alabama under Shula, but he was not a Shula recruit. Tiffin was a walk-on. In other words because this was Van Tiffin's son Shula invited him to walk on. And, Tiffin was pretty terrible under Shula. In fact it is only this year that Tiffin has really matured into a clutch kicker. The difference is the present coaching staff.

Javier Arenas: Shula recruited him as a returner. No doubt he is a great returner. Yet, Saban is th eone who let him play DB and he is an All American at DB. I will say this, Shula took a chance on this kid that only FIU wanted. So, Shula deserves some credit. But, Arenas would never have been anything more than a returner under Shula.

Rolando McClain: Signed with Saban, although I think Shula would have probably signed him. Still, this is one of Saban recruits.

Mark Ingram: Saban.

Mt. Cody: Saban

So what you see is that of 6 All Americans, I would give Shula credit for recruiting 2 of them- that is full credit for Mike Johnson and half credit for Tiffin and Arenas. I would give Saban credit for 4 of them. Full credit for McClain, Cody, and Ingram. Plus half credit for Tiffin and Arenas because it was their development, position change, etc. that made them All American.

Bottom line Mike Shula does have a small part in some of these guys coming to Bama and eventually making All American. But, these 6 guys are a product of the process. If Mike Shula were still coach we would have ZERO All Americans this year. (Andre Smith and Caldwell would have been All Americans even under Shula last year, but none of this year's team.)   

 

        

     

  

      

  

      

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You hit the nail on the head with Arenas...

…Shula didn’t want him but Ungerer (special teams coached) talked him into bringing him in as a return specialist. Had Shula stayed, Arenas would have never seen the field as a DB and likely would have transferred; he admitted that he wanted to leave because he never thought he’d get a chance at corner, but Saban talked him into staying by letting him know he’d get his shot if he worked his ass off and did what the coaches told him, and that worked out pretty well. Saban turned him into an All-American DB. As for Johnson, I doubt he would have been All-SEC with Shula, if only because Bob Connelly isn’t fit to breathe the same air as Joe Pendry as far as line coaches go. Pendry turned that kid into the monster he is.

Roll Bama Roll - The Champagne of Bama Blogs.

by Todd on Dec 16, 2009 9:15 PM CST reply actions  

Joe Pendry

is probably the most underrated coach on our staff. McElwain and Smart get most of the hype and attention but Pendry is a damn good offensive line coach. He hides our weaknesses on our line very well. I hope we can keep most of this staff for one more year before some start becoming head coaches.

This upcoming season I'm gonna refer to Julio Jones as "The Magic Man" and Trent Richardson as "El Diablo"

by AlabamaTitans2009 on Dec 17, 2009 12:36 AM CST up reply actions  

rolando

was a solid commit before saban was hired. I remember being excited by him doing the 2006 season watching his rivals videos. Though im not sure how good of a player he would have been with Shula. Good points though.

by bama05 on Dec 16, 2009 9:35 PM CST reply actions  

Rolando...

… was just one of those recruits who would have always signed with Alabama regardless of the circumstances surrounding the Capstone. Hell, he would have signed with Fran or Price, it was just his destiny, so to speak.

However, though, you cannot compare what McClain has done under Saban to what he potentially would have done under Shula. In Joe Kines’ 3-3-5 scheme, McClain would probably be a defensive end, so the fact that’s he’s a superstar linebacker in the 3-4 really tells you only very little about what he would have done playing a completely different position in a completely different scheme.

"Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." -- Milton Friedman

by outsidethesidelines on Dec 16, 2009 10:47 PM CST up reply actions  

You

had a great post in another thread about Auburn’s recruiting vs. player dev and Alabama under Saban and player dev. You pointed out all the non-highly touted players that have turned into big time players under Saban. I was hoping you’d write up a piece for the front page on the subject as it would certainly make anybody who plays the “winning with another coach’s players” card feel quite dumb.

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on Dec 17, 2009 8:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Hahah

and Chizik won 7 games with Tubby’s players (all 70 of them)

Fight on, fight on, fight on men! Remember the Rose Bowl, we’ll win then.

by Bozeman on Dec 16, 2009 10:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Shula's Recruits

Yes, exactly. Just like all the geniuses that say Stallings won with Curry’s recruits. I’ll always defend Mike Shula, but I question the motives of someone who brings up this topic, just like those Curry apologists.

by PhilK on Dec 17, 2009 12:31 AM CST reply actions  

dude shulas all american steakhouse!!!! yeah!!!

oh nevermind. they been playin a lot of commercials for it on the radio lately… my bad

also dont forget demeco ryans (he was AA right?) and andre smith. 2 of shulas guys.

for the next five days there is nothing in my heart but hate. pure, untempered, ice-cold hate. fond memories are for saturday. - Kleph

by tempebamafan on Dec 17, 2009 3:55 AM CST reply actions  

who is this shula person you speak of???

hehe

Auburn fans are like slinkys not really good for anything but can stil bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs

by FowlOne on Dec 17, 2009 7:10 AM CST reply actions  

Development

This is really why Saban stands out, and in my homer opinion is the best coach in the country. Saban not only recruits at a superb level, but he is able to take the talent and develop them as All-Americans. There is no reason to believe that almost any of the players would have been as successful if Shula had been coaching them. I feel pretty coinfident saying that the few upper level recruits that came to Alabama when Shula was coach, was much more about the team being Alabama, than Shula being the head coach.

It really is unbelieveable what Saban has been able to do in only three years. I am remember thinking when he was hired that maybe in year three Alabama might be in position to compete for an SEC title, but more likely year four. Saban is clearly one of the most transcendent head coaches in modern SEC history.

by Kenny483 on Dec 17, 2009 7:32 AM CST reply actions  

Saban is clearly one of the most transcendent head coaches in modern SEC CFB history.

Fixed that for you.

"Let's go be champions, boys!" - Greg McElroy

by SugarBowl93 on Dec 17, 2009 10:26 AM CST up reply actions  

Saban is clearly one of the most transcendent head coaches in modern SEC CFB history.

Fixed that for you.

"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban

by NiceLittleSaturday on Dec 17, 2009 12:13 PM CST up reply actions  

I thought about doing that,

but until he wins a few more titles I’m not sure we can go that far. I absolutely believe he’ll get there, but it’ll be a few more years.

"Let's go be champions, boys!" - Greg McElroy

by SugarBowl93 on Dec 17, 2009 12:54 PM CST up reply actions  

It really works both ways .....

Bama’s recruiting and scouting network has always been a great one. When a coach is in place who won’t squander the talent, the network works that much harder. Stallings had never had a winning season when in the first chair, but at Bama he did very well. Right now we have a great coach who can take full advantage of all Bama’s resources and tradition, they compliment each other. Bama may slip from time to time, but we always manage to climb back to top of the heap. We sure had a tough time this last go round though.

by ramabama on Dec 17, 2009 10:25 AM CST reply actions  

Shula was not a terrible coach

but he wasn’t a great one. His teams were usually competitive and they played hard. They often came up short late in games because they weren’t as talented or as well conditioned. He honestly probably got almost as much out of them as anyone could have, and he helped restore an element of dignity to the University of Alabama when we’d earned a lot of negative ink.

It’s unfortunate that he had to be fired in 2006, but we were never going to be an elite team with Mike Shula as our head coach. We probably would have won nine or ten games at best if he’d stayed. There is no way in hell we would have been playing in the Sugar Bowl last year or the BCS championship this year. I doubt you’ll find anyone anywhere who’d argue with you about that.

MATRIX: Bennett, I thought you were--

BENNETT: Dead? You thought wrong. Ever since you had me thrown out of the unit, I've been waiting to pay you back. Do you know what today is, Matrix? Payday.

by Bamagrad on Dec 17, 2009 11:52 AM CST reply actions  

agreed

S&C was a HUGE problem under CMS. another was that is seemed that we never watched film. i know that cant be the case but i swear i would watch games basically KNOWING what the other team was going do and our guys looked woesomely unprepared.

"You have to create 6 seconds of hell each play..."
Coach Nick Saban

by LittleSis on Dec 17, 2009 1:55 PM CST up reply actions  

not so fast

he sucked at discipline. i mean REALLY sucked. you can compare rap sheets at your leisure. restored an element of dignity? must be some kind of new element i’ve never heard of. yes, kids will make mistakes but when mistakes become the norm for your program then the adjective for your program is “Embarassment”.

by digmybama on Dec 17, 2009 4:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Urban won with Zook's players....

"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban

by NiceLittleSaturday on Dec 17, 2009 12:32 PM CST reply actions  

Can't remember whose players Miles had....

"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban

by NiceLittleSaturday on Dec 17, 2009 12:33 PM CST up reply actions  

...don't think Miles can either

Your temper brings dishonor to my happy mooshu palace.

by mulletover on Dec 17, 2009 3:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Saban won with George Perles' players too

MATRIX: Bennett, I thought you were--

BENNETT: Dead? You thought wrong. Ever since you had me thrown out of the unit, I've been waiting to pay you back. Do you know what today is, Matrix? Payday.

by Bamagrad on Dec 17, 2009 4:00 PM CST reply actions  

Bowden lost with Bowden's players....

"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban

by NiceLittleSaturday on Dec 17, 2009 8:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Well,

you can’t really inherit players from anyone when you’ve been around since the dawn of football itself.

"Let's go be champions, boys!" - Greg McElroy

by SugarBowl93 on Dec 17, 2009 9:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Runs in the family

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on Dec 18, 2009 8:52 AM CST up reply actions  

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