The N.C.A.A. is conducting a wide-ranging investigation into the University of Tennessee’s football recruiting practices, according to interviews with several prospects, their family members and high school administrators. A significant part of the investigation is focused on the use of recruiting hostesses who have become folk heroes on Tennessee Internet message boards for their ability to help lure top recruits.
N.C.A.A. officials have visited four prospects and are scheduled to visit two others this week in an investigation covering at least three states. The inquiry is unusual in its scope and its timing. It is rare that the N.C.A.A. looks at this wide a swath of one university’s recruits before the players have signed with a program in February.
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http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2009/12/8/1192555/ncaa-is-investigating-tennessees
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That's too bad.
:)
"So I want everybody to think here for a second, how much does this game mean to you? 'Cause if it means something to you, you can't stand still. You understand? You play fast! You play strong! You go out there and dominate the man you're playing against, and you make his ass quit! That's our trademark! That's our M.O.... as a team! That's what people know us as!" - Coach Nick Saban before the 2008 LSU game.
by 12NationalChampionships on Dec 9, 2009 7:56 AM CST reply actions
Vegas have odds
on how long Kiffin will be the coach at UT? Over/Under on 3 years? I’ll take the under.
i hate to say this...
but this doesn’t sound like it was kiffin’s fault.
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Someone has to take the fall if true
so why not let it be the biggest pompass ass in football.
Rex E Mathis
Just read the full article
You don’t think Kiffin had some idea this stuff was going on? Not knowing the rules (again) is not a viable excuse with the NCAA. Call me a cynic, but what are the odds that these hot chicks that UT is sending to woo recruits aren’t just batting their eyes and padding these kids’ egos with words? Tennessee is really about to become UsluT.
by bumblebeetuna on Dec 9, 2009 8:21 AM CST up reply actions
saying that kiffin is responsible for this...
is like holding saban accountable for the textbook fiasco. the sin is not in terms of being responsible for the violation but for not keeping it from happening. if it turns out kiffin turned a blind eye to this, sure i’ll join the pile-on in earnest. but there is ziltch to suggest that and its only fair to give him the benefit of the doubt we ask for our own coach.
that said, i ain’t defendin the fool.
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Good point.
Sorry I questioned you! My hatred for Tenn blinded me
by bumblebeetuna on Dec 9, 2009 8:34 AM CST up reply actions
This is wide-open (no pun intended, really)
in public for everyone to see as opposed to a college bookstore where some clerk noticed a discrepency. Kiffin may or may not have ordered it, but he is the person who is directly responsible for how UT recruits.
It’s similar to that twitter violation- It was Kiffin’s personal tweets until there was a violation- then all of a sudden it was some stupid intern who didn’t know any better.
i'll assume that is what the ncaa investigation is in the process of determining
so i’ll hold off calling him out till it does its job.
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Oh yeah, I understand where you're coming from
but no matter how it plays out, I think that Kiffin has just about run out of wiggle room with the ncaa and probably UT’s fans.
It was all fun and games and no big deal back in the summer, but if I were in their shoes, I’d be feeling a little anxious about this and wanting someone (prez, AD, or Kiffin himself) to reel this ncaa stuff in and get control of it.
But since I’m not in their shoes, I hope he drives that orange bus off a cliff and it explodes into a flaming orange fireball.
From what I've heard
I don’t think the thing is that bad, though I don’t know all of the details. It has been going on for quite awhile — if it is a violation (which, it probably will be) I’m not looking at it as something horrible from the coaching staff, yet, given the details I’ve seen/heard.
Not to defend it, but it’s not worrying me too much as far as Kiffin himself goes. Here’s one UT “tradition” that I wouldn’t mind him breaking. Still, it’s unsure if the violation aspect is set up by the coaching staff, or if it’s by the hostesses themselves.
Tennessee Fans: We win at teh Internet!
we didn't think the textbook thing was "that bad" either
but god only knows what can happen when the damned infraction committee gets ahold of something.
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Yeah
And I don’t think the textbook thing is “that bad” — fun to make fun of!! — but definitely am flinching a bit thinking of the possible repercussions. I meant this more as my personal opinion of Kiffin likely won’t be much affected by whatever happens with this, because I don’t think it involves him that much, from the knowledge I have right now.
Tennessee Fans: We win at teh Internet!
From where I’m sitting, one of two things must be true. Either:
a) Kiffin is not aware of or not in control of the full compliment of recruiting activities undertaken by the University and the hostesses and, therefore, opens himself up to a great deal of criticism (at best) or
b) Kiffin knows what’s going on and helps to direct it.
(b) seems more likely to me. Why? Because someone has to be telling these girls which recruits they should spend their weekends driving 200 miles to go see. It would be a horrible waste to go “recruit” a five-star who is a firm verbal or a three-star at a stacked position or anyone who is not coming to UT period.
Slightly different either/or: either the University knows what’s going on and, therefore, is doing this stuff intentionally or they aren’t and therefore end up with Failure to Monitor (at best, if the girls were just going a little above and beyond) or Lack of Institutional Control (at worst, if they were operating completely rogue).
At the end of the day, though, these girls are representatives of UT, so there’s no escaping liability just by saying they were acting on their own (in fact, that can often make it worse). If they did something wrong, the punishment is going to depend on a number of factors, not the least of which will be how long they’ve been engaging in the improper behavior, and how many recruits they’ve gotten, in whole or in part, because of the improper recruiting.
If this was a faux pas or two that have sprung up recently and have made only a tiny difference, well, it’ll probably end up being some restrictions on hostess activity for a few seasons and a slap-on-the-wrist letter from Indy.
If, on the other hand, it’s found that the hostess behavior has been egregious and a key reason that Tennessee has gotten some major players over the past decade, this thing could start looking like a post-season ban and/or major scholarship losses in a real quick hurry.
Most problematic about these situations: the NCAA bylaws are broad and strict. The letter of the law is, in all likelihood, often violated (intentionally and otherwise) with great frequency. Drawing the gaze of the NCAA for any reason brings a lot of these otherwise unseen violations to light, condenses them, and piles them up, turning years of relatively minor snafus into a big pile of trouble.
I'm wrong all the time.
Yeah
That’s pretty much my take on it: like I said, I’m “flinching” at the prospect of what this could mean. I’m sure Kiffin knows about them, but it’s unclear to me if he was making a point to direct them, or what, and that will likely be a key point of the investigation, like you said.
The names associated with some of these hostesses points to some bad things happening: I saw Bryce Brown’s name in the article, and we just know the NCAA loves Bryce Brown, right? ;-).
I don’t think there’s much that goes on without a coach’s knowledge in regards to the sports programs, especially not in the SEC.
Tennessee Fans: We win at teh Internet!
Drawing the gaze of the NCAA for any reason brings a lot of these otherwise unseen violations to light, condenses them, and piles them up, turning years of relatively minor snafus into a big pile of trouble.
substitute ‘my mom’ for ‘the NCAA’ and this pretty much sums up my teenage years
"You have to create 6 seconds of hell each play..."
Coach Nick Saban
When my younger brother
took his official trip to UT back in 1992 I went with him. As soon as we walked into the practice facility to sign in, these hostesses knew him by sight and descended on him like vultures, albeit very pretty ones. I thought it was a little odd back then, and I can definitely see how they can influence young recruits.
hold up a sec
bama also has hostesses that are beautiful, as only bama girls can be. i am proud of my daughter and the role she plays in recruiting.
again...
despite the “wink wink nudge nudge” aspersions that are fueling this story… what seems to be at the heart of the inquiry is if a group affiliated with the university and athletic department was going off-campus to visit recruits.
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by kleph on Dec 9, 2009 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yup
That’d be the violation, as I understand it, which might or might not be blamable on the coaching staff. The NCAA will likely figure out what’s up.
Tennessee Fans: We win at teh Internet!
Actually we do not have the hostesses anymore because of the NCAA
We got rid of the Bama Belles a while back.
I wouldn't piss off the boys from Alabama . . . DBT
hostess
you are right, they are no longer called bama belles, but they are there. check out the football complex about 2 hrs before kickoff.
Too bad
Auburn fans are like slinkys... not really good for anything but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
Gary Barnett
wonders if UT’s hostesses can compete like champions?
"Hollywood made a movie of my life. The film had me proposing to my wife on the football field. I would never misuse a football field that way." -Crazy Legs Hirsch
by Stuck in the Plains on Dec 9, 2009 9:03 AM CST reply actions
Question. What kinda penalty comes from something like this?
"The goal is to be a champion," Saban said. "I didn’t say to win a championship. I just said be a champion. That’s our goal here. That’s what we want to do."- Nick Saban
that depend on the vice laws
in the particular state where the offense occured.
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by kleph on Dec 9, 2009 9:29 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
haha
rec’d. You certainly can’t spell slut without UT
I dont think you want me to say what I think about that - Coach Nick Saban
by InTheShadowOfMtCody on Dec 9, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
you can cancel the investigation NCAA, they say it's all cool
I’m sure we are attractive to them, but it’s just not an option because of our professionalism. It’s not like you see a cute guy and flirt and with him a little bit. We don’t allow freshman in our organization and (as upperclassmen), 17- and 18-year-olds are not attractive to us.
Orange Pride Co-Captains Gerrin Harrison and Susan Towns
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I wonder if these two
are hostesses for UGA….in which case, Id definetly wanna play between their hedges.
I dont think you want me to say what I think about that - Coach Nick Saban
by InTheShadowOfMtCody on Dec 9, 2009 10:59 AM CST up reply actions
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_jgyugzLdbng/RstfbN9OPzI/AAAAAAAAAn0/ZU6kusLnA5Y/s400/uga+girls.jpg
I dont think you want me to say what I think about that - Coach Nick Saban
by InTheShadowOfMtCody on Dec 9, 2009 11:00 AM CST up reply actions
I'm going to go out on a limb
and say nothing happens to UT. They seem to have been able to dodge these kind of things for years.
For whatever reason the NCAA has schools they like and don’t like. They don’t like Alabama, that is obvious. They like USC and I think they like UT.
Kiffin is a jerk, but he has star power, and his wife is hot. He just seems like Hollywood. The NCAA likes Hollywood.
UT gets another wrist slap and whatever happened to USC and Reggie Bush?
I hate the NCAA more than UT & AU combined. At least with UT & AU you got a fighting chance.
maybe. but do think about this...
if i understand this correctly, the key to this investigation is UT’s failure to monitor the activities of a group working under the auspices of the athletic department. let me know if that rings any bells for you.
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This kid decommitted from Bama:
On Thursday, the N.C.A.A. will visit the high school of JaWuan James, who has orally committed to Tennessee. He attends North Gwinnett High in Georgia.
James’s mother, Nichelle Mickens, said the visit regarded Tennessee’s hostesses.
"It’s not about the coaches," she said. "It’s about some of the attendees of the university. It has to do with the hostesses on these visits. That’s as much as I know."
More on JuWann James (t/t Gentry Estes on twitter)...
NCAA coming to N. Gwinnett to talk to Vols’ commitment
http://blogs.ajc.com/recruiting/2009/12/09/ncaa-coming-to-n-gwinnett-to-talk-to-james-about-vols/
For whatever reason the NCAA has schools they like and don’t like. They don’t like Alabama, that is obvious.
The NCAA may be (probably is) incompetent, but there’s not really any good evidence of malice out there. I’ve read the public report on every major infraction since SMU’s death penalty and there’s not a school in there that got a punishment too far out of line with the infraction.
….and hat includes ’Bama’s 2002 sanctions.
It’s frequently parroted that the NCAA hates Alabama but, really, there’s not a whole lot of evidence of that any more.
I'm wrong all the time.
Agreed
It just seems like it with the USC stuff and Phil turning us in. But, yeah, I think it is more incompetence than anything.
You play fast, you play strong, you go out there and dominate the guy you play against, and make his ass quit! That's our trademark, that's our MO as a team, aight, that's what people know us as! - Nick Saban, 2008
by BamaReturns07 on Dec 9, 2009 10:06 AM CST up reply actions
Incompetence
and a lack of consistency as you allude to with USC example.
"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken
USC isn't a case of consistency
It’s a case of the NCAA lacking subpoena power. They can’t make anyone talk. Especially players who are already out of college and in the pros, and since those are pretty much the only kind of people being looked at by that investigation, the NCAA has to just basically sit around and wait for it to get some good evidence that it can use.
If they had gotten their hands on this while Bush et al. were still in school, they’d have had a chance to play the “talk to us or sit out” card, but since he’s not at USC any more, they can’t very well do much about it.
I'm wrong all the time.
I'm not saying we
we are not guilty. The Means thing and Texbook thing were violations. I’m not saying that penalties were wrong. I’m just saying it seems to me we always get much harsher penalties than most others. We get the maxium and others get a lesser penailty or none at all. Sometimes it just seems to disappears.
And this UT case may well prove this out. With all the junk Kiffin has done in just year one if after this they get nothing…well you would have to say the NCAA has favorites.
And LSU had been doing some pretty shady stuff too and the NCAA is looking into it but just watch nothing will come of it. But be named FSU or Alabama and BAM you are fried.
I hate the NCAA more than UT & AU combined. At least with UT & AU you got a fighting chance.
Problem here is the use of “seems to.” It might “seem to” be that we get harsher penalties, but that’s not really the case.
Listen. In 2002 a UA representative paid $100,000 for a player. That’s easily the worst proven violation since SMU and our penalty was well short of what they ended up with. The penalty we received in that situation was easily justifiable and not at all out of line with crimes/punishments of other schools over the last 20 years.
The textbook situation is still playing itself out, so that’s not really something we can even speculate about yet, but even if the original penalty stands in full, you’re still talking about a sample size of 1. You have one example of cases were Alabama was treated more harshly that other schools.
So whatever it might “seem”, there just isn’t a lot of evidence behind you on this point. You have one case where we deserved every ounce of punishment we got (relative to other schools) and one that has yet to be resolved (and in any case, met with a punishment that is pretty much exclusively statistical). That’s not much of an argument.
I don’t think the whole “NCAA HATES ALABAMA!!!” meme is particularly accurate or helpful. Yes, many, many things about the NCAA suck, but I’d love for the “everyone is out to get us” tripe to just die, because there’s just no evidence of it.
I'm wrong all the time.
Ok, I'll
admit some of my beliefs are gut feelings, not necessarily facts. But, when UT gets nothing but a wrist slap on this we all will see that the NCAA does have favorites.
I’d be surprised if this cost them more than 1 scholarship and a year or two probation. But no bowl ban, no signifcant scholly reductions, reduction in numbers, loss of visits etc.
And, I would not be surprised if they got nothing. I still can’t believe nothing happened to them with T Martin, the long distance calling thing, Peyton, on and on.
I hate the NCAA more than UT & AU combined. At least with UT & AU you got a fighting chance.
Did Tiger Woods attend Tennessee? Maybe this is where the problem stems from!
Your temper brings dishonor to my happy mooshu palace.
They need to put a picture of the girl
who’s sexual skills are described as legendary on the UT message boards. I’d really like to see what she has to offer.
MATRIX: Bennett, I thought you were--
BENNETT: Dead? You thought wrong. Ever since you had me thrown out of the unit, I've been waiting to pay you back. Do you know what today is, Matrix? Payday.
Ah
yes, leave it to Deadspin.
"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken
Guess Lanes "street cred" is from the Red Light District
Your temper brings dishonor to my happy mooshu palace.
most of them just changed their accounts
to wit: http://www.facebook.com/people/Courtney-Hitchcock/1510080102
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damn, it's waaay too easy to track people's information down these days
"Yeah, it's Tennessee, that's the way it is sometimes." - Corey Zickefoose, Pulitzer Prize winner and robbery victim
by Thomas Walker Esq on Dec 9, 2009 2:01 PM CST up reply actions
so UT's luring in recruits with hookers?
i like only reading a little bit of an article and assuming the rest.
he was injured. injured bad.
the freek delivers
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by kleph on Dec 9, 2009 11:24 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
Brings a new meaning to "Tennessee Volunteers"
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
I think there is some validity to it.
Kiffin had to know something was up.After showing his pure disregard for the officials with his comments about AL/FL ’’conspiracy’’.And why would the boys in Vegas post a line on such without a little inside info?
from Gentry Estes' Twitter
"Yeah, it's Tennessee, that's the way it is sometimes." - Corey Zickefoose, Pulitzer Prize winner and robbery victim
by Thomas Walker Esq on Dec 9, 2009 2:36 PM CST reply actions
damn....
it’s amazing how much that talkative son-of-a-bitch doesn’t have to say all of a sudden.
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idk if anyone else has heard but this investigation is to be referred to as "Tail-gate"
Offense sells tickets. Defense wins games. - Paul W. "Bear" Bryant
by TheRedTideConsumes on Dec 9, 2009 3:17 PM CST reply actions
It sounds like they are saying
they did not know this was going on? Now that sounds like lack of control to me.
I think they are better to say they knew it was happening and didn’t think it was a violation. Sort of like,“we figured since they were students and not boosters it was ok if they travelled off campus at their own expense to recruit players.”
I hate the NCAA more than UT & AU combined. At least with UT & AU you got a fighting chance.
keep in mind...
the argument you are making here is the exact same one our rivals used against us in terms of the textbook nonsense. the facts of that case, as we well know, were something else entirely. why is it hard to see the same thing is happening here?
oh yeah, because it’s ostensibly about “gettin’ some.”
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A friend's daughter is a hostess for Auburn
They get assignments of which events they are to attend. I would be surprised if TN hostesses operate any differently. My friend’s daughter has never had any contact with a recruit.
marycontrary
My husband was recruited by TN to swim waaaay back
He said prior to the Swim Meet the recruits were slated to watch, they took them all to a party at a lake and the “hostesses” showed up from the other side of the lake, paddling canoes, wearing itty-bitty orange and white bikinis and coon skin caps. he won’t tell me anyhting else!
marycontrary
sorry-must correct
the bikini hostesses were at the pool before the meet, not at the lake.
marycontrary
Would this fall under . . .
Lack of administrative control, which as I recall (if that is worded correctly) is the real key ot the NCAA developing a special relationship with you?
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