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Preview Magazine Picks Get Started

Bamacover_medium
Sadly, Chris Rogers didn't make the cover.

Both Phil Steel and Athlon have kicked off online countdowns in anticipation of the release of their respective CFB annuals next month.

Steele is exhaustive as ever making the actual page of the team available in pdf format. Although he's only up to No. 30 there are already two entries of interest to us: Tennessee at No. 39 and Arkansas at No. 33, both of whom he includes in his "most improved" list. Both teams are bowl bound, he predicts.

Arkansas, he says, suffered greatly from injuries last year in addition to adjusting to their new coach (and the opprobrium that brought). They are facing a brutal gauntlet of in-conference opponents but they also have 18 returning starters - the most in the SEC. Tennessee's late season collapse overshadowed the actual power of it's defense and, Steele thinks, the offense can only get better.

Athlon is posting a countdown of its Top 25 and only providing a synopsis of what will be available in the magazine. Although it's just gotten to the Top Ten, there are no less than three SEC teams featured; LSU at No. 17, Georgia at No. 14 and Ole Miss at No. 10.

 

UPDATE 05/26: Dug up Steele's Alabama cover for this year's magazine.

FanPosts are just that; posts created by the fans. They are in no way indicative of the opinions of SBN and the authors of Roll Bama Roll.

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About that Athlon cover...

May 2009 by Todd - 5 comments

Comments

Display:

eerie...

I was just rifling through Phil Steele online this morning to see when it came out. 6/9/9!

I just won a t-shirt tearing contest against the Tennessee coaching staff

by Stuck in the Plains on May 25, 2009 1:36 PM CDT reply actions  

Good Date IMO

"When people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears their people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

by BamaReturns07 on May 25, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

yeah, i’ve been lurking for a week or two now and there finally was enough stuff between the two to justify the post. i’ve been VERY interested in steele’s take on arkansas. everyone is high on ole miss but seems to have forgotten about arkansas. i think the former is overrated (to a degree) but the latter is being VASTLY underrated. petrino might be a mercenary jerk, but he knows how to build a good team.

by kleph on May 25, 2009 2:06 PM CDT reply actions  

Arkansas

scares the hell out of me…they really started gelling at the end of last year. The offense will be frightening, but their defense will keep them out of contention. I don’t think Ole Miss is overrated that much, but Nutt does have a knack for frittering away a game or three that he ought to win. Top 10? not really. Top 15? yes. Probably ties with LSU for 2nd in the West.

I just won a t-shirt tearing contest against the Tennessee coaching staff

by Stuck in the Plains on May 25, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

petrino's achiles heel

has always been his complete lack of regard for having a D… probably the biggest game in Louisville’s history was a thursday night game against miami back in 04 or 05. (it was leflours last season, and Louisville’s only loss that year) They pretty much had that game won, until the 4th quarter when they allowed a medicore at best miami O to score on consecutive drives and failed to keep miami off the field.

i was just then starting to become a pretty big CARDS fan, and boy were my friends devastated. we all got very very hammered that night as i recall.

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on May 26, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

possibly flawed analogy there...

achilles died but his side won the battle.

by kleph on May 26, 2009 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

there you go

bein all smart and whatnot… i still say i should get props for halfway making a point and for getting 80% of the spelling correct.

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on May 26, 2009 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Word

"When people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears their people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

by BamaReturns07 on May 26, 2009 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah but. . . .

. . . .you’re quite right tempe, in syntax and intent. You called it “petrino’s achilles heel”, right? It’s the “heel” part that saved you. Achilles indeed died, was shot by Paris in (where else) the heel. The only vulnerable part of his body that was above water when his mother Thetis dipped him in the river Styx to make him invincible/immortal. So, to that end, if it is Achilles heel that is vulnerable, and petrino’s weak spot in coaching football is his defense- than. . . .it’s all good as far as I’m concerned.

I’d say you’re spot on with your analogy.

Comer4tide to Nico2.0: "How come I've never heard of any of your random songs?"
Todd to Comer: "Because if you had, he wouldn't listen to it. BOOM. Roasted."
Nico to Todd: "Shouldn't you be off voguing somewhere?"

by BixBeiderbecke on May 26, 2009 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I saw Troy!

Brad Pitt got shot in the ankle and then died. The End.

"When people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears their people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

by BamaReturns07 on May 26, 2009 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

there was a book too, you know.

by kleph on May 27, 2009 6:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Awesome!

Is it directly from the screenplay, or did they translate it into novel form?

by NiceLittleSaturday on May 27, 2009 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

BRO7. . . .

. . . .what about the previous 9 10 years before all that you know, when Achilles FINALLY decided to help his homeys out and actually KILL A FREAKING TROJAN alreadey? The Greeks had been camped-the-f_ck-out for an eternity to get that 2-timing bitch Helen to come back over to the “good side”! But no! She liked Paris’ 6-pack compared to Menaleaus’ “michelin-man” jelly-rolls. Achilles was depressed and mopey for a good 9 years lounging on the beaches of Turkey getting his tan on. Then his BFF (Patroclus) goes and does something corny and dies in a battle with Hector (Paris’ older brother).

If not for Patroculus dying, Achilles woulda just “conscientiously objected” to figting for Agmenmon and Menaleaus against the King Priam, Hector and that wife-taking playa’, Paris.

Paris got him good though. (I like it that Achilles didn’t fight all that much. It gave both Ajax’s their heroic names and made legends out of Odysseus and Diomedes, not to mention Patroclus.

(i’m bananas for the stories of Homer, Pindar, and Euripides)

Comer4tide to Nico2.0: "How come I've never heard of any of your random songs?"
Todd to Comer: "Because if you had, he wouldn't listen to it. BOOM. Roasted."
Nico to Todd: "Shouldn't you be off voguing somewhere?"

by BixBeiderbecke on May 27, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

The movie Troy

was an abortion. I don’t care if modern audiences are unfamiliar with epic literature. Spears and swords bounced off Achilles, for his skin was like armor; Ajax wasn’t killed by Trojans; and Hector got absolutely dominated and disrespected by Achilles. It wasn’t even close to a fair, even match.

MATRIX: Bennett, I thought you were--

BENNETT: Dead? You thought wrong. Ever since you had me thrown out of the unit, I've been waiting to pay you back. Do you know what today is, Matrix? Payday.

by Bamagrad on May 27, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm with you Bamagrad

I can’t watch movies regarding mythic heroes of the past. Most all of them. Even though I think Brad Pitt is tolerable to me, I skipped this one myself.

The stories are already imbedded on my brain, no sense in letting someone f_ck it up for me. (my three cats are named- Achilles, Ajax, and Grendel. Grendel’s the ugly and mean one. So far, he’s brought home 3 squirrels to my doorstep. Birds don’t even to “fly-bys” anymore. Ajax and Achilles chase dogs for fun. But still, they don’t mess with Grendel. He mean)

Comer4tide to Nico2.0: "How come I've never heard of any of your random songs?"
Todd to Comer: "Because if you had, he wouldn't listen to it. BOOM. Roasted."
Nico to Todd: "Shouldn't you be off voguing somewhere?"

by BixBeiderbecke on May 27, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well,

I think anyone who watches a movie based on historical events – Troy, Braveheart, etc. – and takes it as truth or even an accurate representation of what occured is naive behind reproach. Artistic license and, let’s face it, adding and changing elements within the story to sell tickets, are the driving force behind these types of movies.

"When people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears their people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

by BamaReturns07 on May 28, 2009 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Win

"When people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears their people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

by BamaReturns07 on May 28, 2009 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lindy's is out...

If anyone cares. They have Florida as the MNC (no surprise), LSU at 6, Bama at 7, UM at 9. Cody and McClain are first-team AA, Julio and Johnson second-team.

by Mac T on May 25, 2009 2:47 PM CDT reply actions  

I never get why Lindy's and Athlon

do this. It doesn’t make sense that three teams from one division of one conference could all finish in the top 10, but if it happens, it happens.

MATRIX: Bennett, I thought you were--

BENNETT: Dead? You thought wrong. Ever since you had me thrown out of the unit, I've been waiting to pay you back. Do you know what today is, Matrix? Payday.

by Bamagrad on May 25, 2009 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

True Dat

MATRIX: Bennett, I thought you were--

BENNETT: Dead? You thought wrong. Ever since you had me thrown out of the unit, I've been waiting to pay you back. Do you know what today is, Matrix? Payday.

by Bamagrad on May 26, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

How do you justify

LSU at 6? Jefferson has a way to go, but that is a seriously green team with a lot of as-yet proven promise. Not to mention, they draw the hell schedule this year: Florida, Auburn, Ark at home. UGA, Ole Miss, Alabama on the road. Their OOC is nougaty goodness, but they lose 2-3 conference games.

I just won a t-shirt tearing contest against the Tennessee coaching staff

by Stuck in the Plains on May 25, 2009 3:18 PM CDT reply actions  

Senior left tackle, senior running backs, senior primary wideout..

senior defensive tackle and end, senior right guard, three senior starters at linebacker, senior cornerback. Juniors at right tackle, second defensive tackle, second defensive end, and safety. The only place we are “green” is at quarterback. And guess what? Our green quarterback has 2 more starts than your green quarterback. We’d be better off if we had a quality experienced quarterback, but every college team in the country faces challenges. You will be facing your own, replacing three starters on the offensive line including an All-American plus breaking in a new quarterback.

Richard Pittman

by Richard Pittman on May 25, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Almost forgot..

Our second receiver is a junior too.

Richard Pittman

by Richard Pittman on May 25, 2009 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

well, that’s true. but you also draw both georgia AND florida from the east. which we and ole miss avoid this year.

by kleph on May 25, 2009 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

That doesn't make us a worse TEAM

It just means we have a harder road from here to there. This brings up all sorts of questions about what exactly a ranking is when you are talking pre-season. Is it a rating of “how good are they” or is it a rating of “where will they finish?” It’s one of the questions that makes me question the use of pre-season rankings in general. People come up with an ambiguous “ranking”, and then sit around arguing about what exactly it is that they’re trying to evaluate. People end up comparing apples to oranges.

Still, the poster’s point that we are a green team is just plain wrong. We have veterans all over the field, except at quarterback, left guard, center, one cornerback position, and strong safety, if you mean “juniors and seniors” as veterans. Most of those juniors and seniors have starting experience.

Oh yeah, I forgot about our senior tight end too.

Richard Pittman

by Richard Pittman on May 25, 2009 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

well, it seems a bit ridiculous to be doing resume rankings at this point so i’m assuming we are all talking projections. a lot of the ole miss hype seems to be from their hot streak at the end of last year.

but, yes, lsu isn’t “green” by any stretch. inexperience at the QB slot may have cost you a few games last year but that certainly isn’t indicative of the team across the board.

as for projections… steele has also put together his ranking of win/loss percentage for each team using last year’s records and this year’s schedules. another yardstick that you can debate but as a general measure it seems valid. a few of the more interesting items:

No. 1 Fla. St.
No. 2 Okla. St
No. 3 Texas Tech
No. 4 South Carolina
No. 6 Auburn
No. 8 Miss. St.
No. 14 Va. Tech
No. 18 Florida
No. 30 Georgia
No. 35 Texas
No. 42 Tenn.
No. 50 LSU
No. 56 USC
No. 64 Ohio St.
No. 92 Alabama

taking this as a general measure for what the perception will be come september, it seems to suggest that even if we do beat the tarnation out of everyone we face, the likelihood of getting into the MNC hunt is low. losing to VT and it’s almost certainly out the window. LSU isn’t in quite as bad a pickle but not exactly enjoying much of a margin of error either. no matter how you slice it, that’s asking a lot of two green quarterbacks.

by kleph on May 25, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

resume ranking is something different..

It’s measuring accomplishment. I’m talking more about measuring “who would win in a neutral site game between two healthy and rested teams.” It seems better than ranking record projections. I just don’t like taking any team’s strength of schedule into account and punishing them for a tough-looking schedule before the season starts.

Richard Pittman

by Richard Pittman on May 25, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

well, hell, you REALLY don't want to go there

I just won a t-shirt tearing contest against the Tennessee coaching staff

by Stuck in the Plains on May 25, 2009 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

i think you are reading too much into this...

at this point we all admit it’s too early to judge what will be the case come september but that’s not to say we should simply abandon such surmise because it’s a fundamentally flawed endeavor. i don’t think any reasonable observer puts much stock in the number any of these pundits choose to tack onto a given team – it more the reasoning they choose to do so that interests us.

by kleph on May 25, 2009 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Defensive Much?

Not that I disagree with what you are saying, but come on. How muych of a homer can you get.

And going after our QB for what reason?

"When people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears their people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

by BamaReturns07 on May 25, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Speaking of defensive..

I didn’t “go after” your quarterback. I merely pointed out that, to the extent we have an inexperience issue at quarterback, you have the very same issue. Yet you point us out for being “green” and being, therefore, overrated while making no mention of your own ranking one position lower.

how muych of a homer can you get?

Richard Pittman

by Richard Pittman on May 25, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

whoa Sally

I didn’t point you out. Your post was blindly homer-riffic!

"When people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears their people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

by BamaReturns07 on May 25, 2009 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

And...

Richard, I’m not pissing in your fruit loops, but that defense got lit up by anyone with a pulse; including the above Ole Miss, Alabama (moved at will, even if it didn’t translate on the board), Florida, Arkie. Talk about the O all you want, I’m talking about a porous D getting more so. You are green with a lot of great promise…that’s good enough for top 10-15, not #6.

I just won a t-shirt tearing contest against the Tennessee coaching staff

by Stuck in the Plains on May 25, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Am I the only one

who thinks our O line will be decent? McElroy is good enough to not lose us games. Not a game breaker but still…between our running game and Julio and our other receivers, we are cool.

Plus LSU has a tough road to hoe going through our D in Tuscaloosa.

"When people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears their people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

by BamaReturns07 on May 25, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

i think both the O line and the QB will be decent. but it might take a few games to gel and we are starting out vs one of the best teams in the country. i’m much much more concerned about VT than i was about clemson going into last season. i think orson nailed it when he observed a stumble on our part is very possible but “Alabama will improve three thousand times from game one to game six after breaking in a new qb, and will likely look at their worst in game one.”

by kleph on May 25, 2009 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

agreed

however i still think we’ll beat Va Tech simply because our D and special teams will be better than theirs, and it’s not like handing off 40 times will be beyond what GMAC can deliver.

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on May 26, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

i’m hoping the hard lesson of the sugar bowl makes ’em hungry coming out the the gate.

by kleph on May 26, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

i think they will be

and i also think our big time recruits from last year are going to push like hell for playing time. i sincerely feel we’ll be 12-0 heading into the december 5th, and that we’ll have a much stronger D on that day than we did the year prior.

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on May 26, 2009 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

LOL
however i still think we’ll beat Va Tech simply because our D and special teams will be better than theirs

Yeah, Va Tech’s D and Sp Teams always suck.

by LSU Jonno on May 27, 2009 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

do they have a senior punter returning with a nearly 40 yard net average

whatever javier arenas? is he on their team or ours? terrance cody? he a hokie or a a member of hte Crimson Tide? refresh my memory for a second?

i didn’t say their D and special teams suck, i said our D and special Teams are better than theirs. if i was going to say someone’s D sucked, i would be talking about LSU…

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on May 28, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

"preview"

is no substitute for “EDIT”

i can has D in english….

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on May 28, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

hmmm

“McElroy is good enough to not lose us games. " no, no, no that’s JPW talk… Greg McElroy is 10x more talented than JPW. after the first couple of games of the season I bet people will be saying… why didn’t we play this guy sooner?!! JPW won the QB role by default because brodie got hurt mid-season… and don’t go quoting his records… they weren’t that hard for a 3 year starter to beat. we have an EXCELLENT QB this year!

so easy... even an Auburn fan can do it!

by K. brevis on May 26, 2009 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

he did

pretty good replacing a vaunted starter at Southlake.

i’ll gladly take 16-0 this year… (this presumes we beat tennessee and aubie twice just for good measure)

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on May 26, 2009 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

perhaps

but even if we grant you this point, the fact is he’s an excellent untested quarterback. and therin lies the rub.

by kleph on May 26, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

good point

and JPW was a tested mediocre QB… lol

so easy... even an Auburn fan can do it!

by K. brevis on May 26, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

a tested mediocre QB that led us to an undefeated regular season.

by kleph on May 26, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's why the defense was overhauled..

Entirely new defensive coaching staff. Three starters demoted to backup roles. One starter moved to a different position. One very talented player no longer being criminally misused. The issue is being addressed.

And speaking of defenses, opposing offenses started figuring yours out towards the end of last year too. Attack the linebackers in coverage and go after the cornerbacks.

Richard Pittman

by Richard Pittman on May 25, 2009 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

well, a defensive overhaul suggests a ramping up period as well. and keep in mind, when you say opposing offenses figured us out you mean florida and utah. that’s a significant amount of offensive firepower and one of the key weaknesses they were exploiting was our depth, not our scheme.

by kleph on May 25, 2009 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not

to mention our lack of a pass rush

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on May 26, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

that didn’t help either.

by kleph on May 26, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wrong

Entirely new coaching staff? Saban runs the defense. Hello.

We need a shut down corner, which I belieev we have. Linebackers will be improved. D line will be among the best in the country. Secondary will lose a great player, for sure, but overall improved with depth and more quality players.

"When people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears their people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

by BamaReturns07 on May 25, 2009 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

following that train of thought...

do you think there will be a significant adjustment period for the new regime? is what they are planning an overhaul of the previous approach on defense or just a new driver at the wheel of the same vehicle?

by kleph on May 25, 2009 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

We're sticking with the same basic scheme..

We’re sticking with 4-3 formations. After that, there’s only so much that can change. We were a combination of man and zone last year, so however we play it we’ll be doing something we’re experienced at. Other than that, we really don’t know much yet.

Richard Pittman

by Richard Pittman on May 25, 2009 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

john chavious

was a good hire. even with the cho-mo stach.

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on May 26, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fat Guy Porno Stache what?

"When people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears their people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

by BamaReturns07 on May 26, 2009 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

whoa whoa whoa. hold your horses BR

cho-mo != porno……

at least it shouldn’t.

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on May 26, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

It COULD be

depending on your cup of tea.

"When people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears their people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

by BamaReturns07 on May 26, 2009 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

LSU tea

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on May 28, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Made

with bits of real swamp rat, so you know its good.

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on May 28, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

nuetria a.k.a. "supper"

isn’t that what they call it?

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on May 29, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

60% of the time

it works all the time. Proven fact!

"When people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears their people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

by BamaReturns07 on May 29, 2009 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

DIdn't LSU outgain bama last year?

Lets look it up…Yep, LSU 382 yds Bama 353.

So yes anyone with a pulse moved the ball on LSU last year, yet LSU still managed to out gain you head to head.

Nobody can argue that our offense and defense will be greatly improved this year. Not sure why people assume Bama is going to be that much better than LSU. In fact I assume LSU will be better than Bama.

by LSU Jonno on May 26, 2009 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Saban > Miles

for starters. Defense will be better than yours. Offense? Not sure, depends on how our line gels but I think we will be fine. We have some offensive players with Julio, McCoy (senior), Ingram and Richardson coming in.

"When people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears their people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

by BamaReturns07 on May 26, 2009 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

'Bama's D is gonna be monster

It’s like kleph said earlier, and I feel the exact same way. The VT game is gonna set the stage for ‘Bama this season. Win, and psychology of that game lends itself to a stellar run through the season. Lose, and it’s all about picking up the pieces and possibly playing “tight” for a good portion of the season, and trying not to lose again.

This goes for the coaches and players. The tenor will be set after the VT game. We HAVE TO play like we KNOW we’ve got the coaching, schemes, and players to dominate any game. Read: not like we CAN’T lose or we WILL win- rather, like we have many more and different options available for us to win and that we have to discipline from our practicing that we won’t make the mental mistakes to give the game away.

That’s Coach Saban, in a nutshell.

Comer4tide to Nico2.0: "How come I've never heard of any of your random songs?"
Todd to Comer: "Because if you had, he wouldn't listen to it. BOOM. Roasted."
Nico to Todd: "Shouldn't you be off voguing somewhere?"

by BixBeiderbecke on May 26, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Word

"When people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears their people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

by BamaReturns07 on May 26, 2009 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

4 reasons

georgia tech, florida, ol miss, alabama.

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on May 26, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

lets just put it this way...

nov. 7 isn’t going to be exactly a “day of rest” in the kleph household.

by kleph on May 26, 2009 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

They might have,

I was too busy looking at the final score.

by CousinEddie on May 26, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

outgain you say?

last time I checked… out gaining on the score board is what counts

so easy... even an Auburn fan can do it!

by K. brevis on May 26, 2009 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

The difference between

LSU and some of the other teams in the SEC is that LSU will not be as talented in 2009 as they were in previous years. Bama might not be as good in 2009 as they were in 2008, but they are more talented on paper, and that’s a good start.

If recruiting holds up for Bama, 2010 will be the fourth straight year (and final year) that Bama returns a team more talented than the one it finished with the previous year.

MATRIX: Bennett, I thought you were--

BENNETT: Dead? You thought wrong. Ever since you had me thrown out of the unit, I've been waiting to pay you back. Do you know what today is, Matrix? Payday.

by Bamagrad on May 25, 2009 6:54 PM CDT reply actions  

I'm

confused as to whats so funny. LSU led the country in NFL draft pics over the period of what you could call “Saban recruits.” Are you saying that this year’s team will be more talented than those teams? Is that why you’re laughing?

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on May 26, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

I know

how can anyone dispute the fact that the bulk of LSU’s stars from the ’05, ’06, ’07, and even the ’08 teams were guys like Helms, Jackson, Dorsey, Bowe, Doucet, Herman Johnson, and Ricky Jean-Francois, all of whom are gone.

That’s not to say that Miles hasn’t recruited some good players, but the bedrock guys are gone and the new blood will have to step up.

No one ever said LSU won’t be good, but it’s a little hasty to proclaim them to be a sure thing in 2009.

MATRIX: Bennett, I thought you were--

BENNETT: Dead? You thought wrong. Ever since you had me thrown out of the unit, I've been waiting to pay you back. Do you know what today is, Matrix? Payday.

by Bamagrad on May 26, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bingo

"When people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears their people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

by BamaReturns07 on May 26, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

BG

Do you know Clint Waggoner?

"When people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears their people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

by BamaReturns07 on May 26, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah

I did…probably been about ten years since I saw him last. He was off to medical school, then.

MATRIX: Bennett, I thought you were--

BENNETT: Dead? You thought wrong. Ever since you had me thrown out of the unit, I've been waiting to pay you back. Do you know what today is, Matrix? Payday.

by Bamagrad on May 26, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah

he works at my facility. Great guy, our staff is small but he is about the only doctor who actually hangs out with us “middlings” at lunch, bar, etc. He is a radiologist out here.

"When people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears their people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

by BamaReturns07 on May 26, 2009 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ask him to

tell you about Jackie Shipp.

MATRIX: Bennett, I thought you were--

BENNETT: Dead? You thought wrong. Ever since you had me thrown out of the unit, I've been waiting to pay you back. Do you know what today is, Matrix? Payday.

by Bamagrad on May 26, 2009 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

will do

"When people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears their people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

by BamaReturns07 on May 28, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

And he will want to know where I heard that name?

I’ll just tell him Bamagrad ha ha.

"When people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears their people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

by BamaReturns07 on May 28, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

i think it’s a lot less hasty than declaring ole mill will be a sure thing in 2009.

by kleph on May 26, 2009 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

agreed

ol miss is losing some depth at O line and is not in near as good a position to reload, as LSU or Bama. also arkansas will probably be much improved, add in the fact that ol miss wont sneak up on anyone this year, and 9 wins looks like the best they should hope for.

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on May 26, 2009 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's exactly what I

have been saying for the last three months.

by CousinEddie on May 26, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Its

hard to say anybody other than UF will be a sure thing, but having a good (and experienced) QB sure seems to correlate strongly with success in this league.

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on May 26, 2009 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

in other news...

the sun typically rises in the east, sets in the west.

by kleph on May 26, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

LSU '09

Just as talented as previous teams. First, I think you’re overrating Helms, Jean-Francois and Johnson. There probably hasn’t been a recent LSU player with as disappointing a career as Ricky Jean-Francois. He came in as a highly touted freshman, redshirted, played one year as a reserve, then was academically ineligible for all but two games of his sophomore year. Those two games were good enough for us to hype him up as an All-American candidate for the 2008 season, in which he proceeded to do jack and squat except or block a field goal against y’all. Then he left with a year of eligibility remaining. I would say the sum total of his career was two outstanding games, one blocked field goal, and a whole lot of nothing in between.

Herman Johnson was a fine player, but not great. He’ll be missed, but if his replacement at left guard is good, he won’t be missed that much. Helms was a plugger. A really good plugger, but a plugger nonetheless. He was not drafted into the NFL and was not considered a reasonable probability of being drafted. His experience will be missed, but we have 3 returning starters on the line. It’s not like we’re the only team in the country that has to replace a couple starters on the offensive line.

The other guys, I grant you, were outstanding players, but keep in mind what we have coming back. Brandon Lafell is as good as any of those receivers you mention, with the possible exception of post-Lasik Dewayne Bowe. In case you missed it, Lafell led the SEC in receptions and touchdown catches in 2008. Rahim Alem was 1st team All-SEC at defensive end despite being a backup (one of the criminally negligent decisions of the prior defensive coaching staff was not to start him). Chad Jones may be the best athlete ever to come through LSU. He’s 6’3" 230# with the speed of a cornerback. He ran down Darren McFadden from behind in 30 yards as a freshman. I’m sure you remember him:

He was terribly misused as a “rover” last year, moving from safety to nickel to linebacker. He will have one position this year and he will excel. He’s also our best left handed pitcher on our baseball team. We also have Patrick Peterson, who we expect to be one of the two or three best cornerbacks in the conference. We have Richard Dickson, who is the best receiving tight end at LSU in recent memory. We have Charles Scott, whose 2008 season was the best statistically for an LSU running back in more than a decade. Left tackle Ciron Black could well tie an NCAA record for most career starts if LSU ends up in the SECCG and if he stays healthy, and would likely have been drafted on the first day had he gone to the NFL draft this year. Joseph Barksdale has NFL potential at right tackle. Jordan Jefferson’s potential at quarterback is probably greater than anyone’s we’ve had except for Jamarcus Russell’s.

This team will NOT suffer from a deficiency in talent in this year or in any year in the foreseeable future. Last year, we had problems with our defensive scheme and in getting the right players in the right position, plus we were green in the defensive backfield, where it matters most. We aren’t green there anymore. We also had problems with quarterbacking, but we never had problems moving the ball. We had problems with turnovers, specifically interceptions, but we ALWAYS moved the ball, and all of our skill position players return except for Demetrius Byrd, who made 30-something catches.

Richard Pittman

by Richard Pittman on May 26, 2009 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're right

LSU will not be stopped. The only teams capable of beating 2009 LSU are 1958 LSU, 2007 LSU, and 1878 Princeton (please do not have the temerity to confuse them with 1877 Princeton, a feminized bunch in comparison).

Besides, if T-Bob snaps the rock, how can you lose? And Chavis, in all his racially-unidentifiable glory, will lead your team to heights not seen since Mike Archer’s drunken wet dreams.

Maybe Gavin Grey will return to Tiger Stadium for one last gallop, since the film version of Deford’s novel graciously stole him away from the Tar Heels and placed him in the comforts of Louisiana’s finest city.

Can RBR, on behalf of the University of Alabama, concede the 2009, 2010, and 2012 ’Bama/LSU games to you now?

(CIRCLE ONE)
1. Yes
2. No
3. Maybe

MATRIX: Bennett, I thought you were--

BENNETT: Dead? You thought wrong. Ever since you had me thrown out of the unit, I've been waiting to pay you back. Do you know what today is, Matrix? Payday.

by Bamagrad on May 26, 2009 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ha Ha

you just made my night.

man, you LSU guys are an overly confident bunch!

"When people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears their people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

by BamaReturns07 on May 26, 2009 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is called a no-win situation..

One person questions our talent level. I defend our talent level. Some other person mocks me with, “Oh, your team is so great, why should we even play the games?” That’s life on the intertubes, I guess.

Richard Pittman

by Richard Pittman on May 26, 2009 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's all in good humor, dude

MATRIX: Bennett, I thought you were--

BENNETT: Dead? You thought wrong. Ever since you had me thrown out of the unit, I've been waiting to pay you back. Do you know what today is, Matrix? Payday.

by Bamagrad on May 26, 2009 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Personally...

…I don’t question the talent level of your players. I question the talent of your head coach. However, you overcame that glaring weakness in 2007, so it could prolly happen again.

by NiceLittleSaturday on May 26, 2009 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

les miles...

…might be a loose cannon but he’s not an inferior head coach by any means. he’s proven time and again – you underestimate him at your own risk.

by kleph on May 27, 2009 6:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

He's proven time and again...

…that any moron can win with superior talent. It’s the Jimmies and Joes….

by NiceLittleSaturday on May 27, 2009 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

X's and O's are overrated

Since Miles is not known as one of those guys, he probably has to rely on motivational tactics. I don’t know if he’s great at this, so I can’t judge him. Even if I could, I’m probably too old to be motivated by the typical football stuff anyway, so it’s not like I would say, ‘wow, that’s so inspirational’.

MATRIX: Bennett, I thought you were--

BENNETT: Dead? You thought wrong. Ever since you had me thrown out of the unit, I've been waiting to pay you back. Do you know what today is, Matrix? Payday.

by Bamagrad on May 27, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ha...

…the 2007 Bama-LSU game was a classic matchup of an overmatched coach with superior talent vs. a superior coach with overmatched talent.

by NiceLittleSaturday on May 27, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great answer!

but here is a question for LSU Jonno, would LSU trade coach for coach with Alabama? Hell yes they would, and anyone from LSU that states they wouldn’t is living in Wonderland.

by CousinEddie on May 27, 2009 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

On

paper, yes. But Miles has yet to prove he can win with his own players.

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on May 28, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Neither has Saban...

…and please prove that point wrong.

by Bob Barker on Jun 1, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm

not going to go back and researching every LSU roster from 2000-2004 but some of those players (Joseph Addai (?) comes to mind) were young enough on the NC team to be ‘Saban players.’

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on Jun 1, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

And

you must have a short memory because a number of our key contributors in 2008 were Saban recruits:
Mark Ingram
Julio Jones
Dont’a Hightower
Terrence Cody

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on Jun 1, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

And..

Some of the players on the 2007 championship team were Miles’ players. I’m just saying that the same ratio has existed for both coaches. I believe Saban had 1 more year of his own players in his system then Miles when they each won their respective titles. But you can’t say 1 year makes a different on whether you won with your players or someone other person’s players. If you say that then none of Saban’s victories at Bama count yet because he hasn’t made it to that 4th year.

by Bob Barker on Jun 2, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

let's see,

Saban came in at LSU at ground zero. Built a championship caliber team, and then he left. Miles comes in, wins another champ. with Saban’s recruits, and you think they are “about” equal.

by CousinEddie on May 28, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

let's ask him again

in another year or two…. lol

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on May 28, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

For all we know..

The championship caliber team had already been recruited by Dinardo. Since apparently it’s all about who recruited the players.

by Bob Barker on Jun 2, 2009 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

except that we know that isn't the case.

dinardo was a joke and he lost everywhere he coached at.

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on Jun 3, 2009 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

He lost with some other coaches players.

if you subscribe to the you lose with another coach’s players rule, you must also subscribe to a you lose with another coach’s payers rule. According to your timeline of how long you need to be a coach somewhere, Dinardo never really had an opportunity to play with his own players. So his losses from his coaching, that you pointed out, are worthless to determine if he was a good coach or not.

The point I’m trying to make is that this whole “win or lose” with someone else’s players thing is just dumb. You only ever heard it when referring to a coach who took over a bad program. Schools would give them 5 years to get their own players into the system. The first time I ever heard, “win with someone else’s players” comment was with Miles. No one ever says Meyer is winning with Zook’s players.

If you subscribe to the statement, then we won’t know if Saban is winning with his own players until 2 years from now. If you think Saban deserves credit for winning then you must give Miles credit.

Now, say Miles goes out and bombs the next two seasons like last season. Then you won’t hear any arguments from me. I just don’t think people give Miles a fair shake.

by Bob Barker on Jun 3, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Concur.

If Miles never has another 10 win season at LSU and never wins the west again, case closed, he was winning with Saban’s players and is a bad coach. But if he splits with Saban and wins the west every 2-3 years then they are equal. Simple as that.

by LSU Jonno on Jun 4, 2009 8:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Regarding

 this comment:

“When some moron says "LSU won’t be as talented in 2009 as they were in 2008" they not only know football but they don’t know how to listen to reason.”

I have forgotten more about football than someone like you will ever know. You might not agree with my opinion of LSU (which I base on the players I’ve watched and a lot of stuff that doesn’t show up on paper), but you haven’t played in the SEC, and you probably haven’t coached at any level. If you want to make it personal, know who you’re F***ing with.

MATRIX: Bennett, I thought you were--

BENNETT: Dead? You thought wrong. Ever since you had me thrown out of the unit, I've been waiting to pay you back. Do you know what today is, Matrix? Payday.

by Bamagrad on Jun 4, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

oh snap!!!

can i say it? no, someone else do it…

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on Jun 4, 2009 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry Rambo

I didn’t know you were so fragile.

Lighten up dog!

Of course I don’t know who I’m F***ing with! You’re some dude on a blog! This doesn’t matter anyway, because knowing your identity won’t change my assessment of your statement.

by LSU Jonno on Jun 4, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

LSU's 09 squad

aint gonna be any more talented than the 08 version was, in fact, w/o any of saban’s players, ya’ll should be significantly worse off.

you will be too, this should be more clear to you around the time you get your asses handed to you by an above average at best Georgia team this Oct 3rd.

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on Jun 4, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

i agree with that

if miles can keep getting 10 win seasons and wins the SEC again, then we can agree he’s talented.

he wont ever win the SEC or a national title again though. so this is all just conjecture. miles got by on Saban’s success, we’ve already seen evidence of this and there should be enough to convince even the blindest of homers after another year or two.

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on Jun 4, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

i dont think it's possible to

underestimate less aint more miles. case in point, his decision to throw a fade tot he corner of the feild with 13,12,11,10, 9 seconds left in that game against auburn. if that ball was caught and the receiver tackled at the 1 or 2 yard line, the game is over, auburn wins, if that ball was bobbled for one second then dropped, game over, auburn wins. miles had no way of knowing the snap would be made 8 second left when he made the call to go for it while the clock was running. hell, if the QB had to call for slide protection due to an apparent blitz, then throws in complete, it’s game over…. miles was in over his head in that game and it nearly cost him big time… later that year he made some bone headed decision in the arkansas game, and it did cost him the game.

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on May 28, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

A little remembered fact:

LSU had a timeout remaining. Had Flynn or Byrd been tackled in the field of play, we would have called timeout and kicked a field goal.

You are right that Miles couldn’t have known the snap would be made at 8 seconds. He probably expected it to be made at 10 or 11 seconds. Flynn took forever to get to the line and take the snap.

I suppose Flynn could have done the disastrous thing and scrambled around for a while, but the play called was a timing play, not a slow-developing play. Had he been pressured, I ‘m sure he would have thrown it away. At some point, you just have to assume your senior quarterback isn’t going to do something blindingly stupid, and you can’t call your plays so as to protect against that.

Richard Pittman

by Richard Pittman on May 28, 2009 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Still

very risky. What if Flynn were sacked? The TO is worthless if LSU is no longer field goal range. What if the snap was mishandled by either the C or QB? And as far as the last TO, that is usefull in your scenario IF the refs keeping time stop it the instant TO is called. That doesn’t always happen. It was a great play and I don’t want to take anything away from anybody though. Plus you beat Auburn so doubly great.

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on May 29, 2009 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

with a 2-step drop..

had he been sacked, he would have been at about the 26-28 yard line. We would have still been in field goal range. Again, though, the play called for a quick timing pass. A sack was unlikely. And I reiterate that you can’t play football as if you’re scared of disaster. A snap could be mishandled on a field goal. In fact, I would venture to say it’s more likely to happen on a field goal.

Had the refs not stopped time correctly, it could have been corrected by replay.

Richard Pittman

by Richard Pittman on May 29, 2009 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

But

again you’re relying on SEC officials to get something right. A scary thought… I do think it was a good play call though, and not becaus it worked, but because you almost take the same gamble leaving it up to a college kicker to win you the game.

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on Jun 1, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

thanks for the screencap

from this we can see that with 4 seconds left the ref hadn’t yet ruled if it was a catch or incomplete. sounds like a bobble or catch in front of the end zone followed by a very brief struggle for yards/tackle would have done it. allowed time to expire while LSU was in field goal range with a decent kicker and a time out still unused.

that was a dangerously close call. it’s almost as if miles had one roll of the dice, and he hit the point on the come out.

that said i DO think it’s a good strategy to push the envelope and let the clock run in the situation LSU was in. that drive was well done, the pressure was effectively on auburns D as they were hoping/expecting LSU to call a time out at some point, but LSU never did for at least 2 minutes if i remember correctly. i dont have anyway to know how much time was left on the clock when miles sent the play in, but when the clock was under 10 seconds and the snap hadn’t been made, the sensible thing to do would have been to call timeout and let your kicker try to win it. (again thats cause LSU had a pretty decent kicker that year if memory serves, if this were lee tiffin i might think differently)

anyway, i’m glad LSU won that game. i hate auburn, and it helps keep LSU’s status elevated so that each time we beat them, we’ll look better by comparison.

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on May 29, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

People who argue this have no clue about LSU's kicker.

Colt David was UNDER 50% from that yardage at that point in the season.

UNDER 50%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by LSU Jonno on May 29, 2009 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

4 seconds is a long time

Plus, you’re ignoring the simple fact that HE THREW IT TO THE END ZONE. why are you fixated on him being tackled on the 1 or 2 yard line? Matt Flynn was a senior QB, throwing to the middle-to-back of the end zone. He knew what he was doing.

Richard Pittman

by Richard Pittman on May 29, 2009 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

for the record...

i’m greatly enjoying the points you have to make, richard. with the advent of the preview magazines we can start looking at the season in earnest and few are better than yourself to give us solid input as to what is up in baton rouge. please take the ribbing in stride and keep posting.

by kleph on May 27, 2009 6:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

amen

I like Richard, he is definitely one of the best on SBNation. I just hate LSU.

"When people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears their people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

by BamaReturns07 on May 28, 2009 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

he's one of the

good ones…

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on May 28, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks..

I do my best.

Richard Pittman

by Richard Pittman on May 28, 2009 7:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

A+

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on May 27, 2009 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

win.

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on May 28, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Richard, you're wasting your breath/fingers...

When some moron says “LSU won’t be as talented in 2009 as they were in 2008” they not only know football but they don’t know how to listen to reason.

I wouldn’t worry about Bama this year Richard, they won’t be as talented as they were last year. Look at all that NFL talent that just graduated. LOL.

by LSU Jonno on May 27, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

LSU will...

…be as talented in 2009 as they were in 2008…just not as talented as they were in 2007. Bama will be as talented in 2009 as they were in 2008…just not as experienced.

by NiceLittleSaturday on May 27, 2009 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

I disagree...

LSU’s 2007 team had a ton of multi year starters.

I think the 2009 team is every bit as talented as that team, but less experienced.

by LSU Jonno on May 28, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

LSU

sucks. they dont have any talent left to speak of. the draft numbers will bear this out.

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on May 28, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

OK...

…I disagree, but we can pick this back up in four or five years once all the evidence is collected.

by NiceLittleSaturday on May 28, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well

Since Miles’ recruits have been draft eligible for exactly one year (and since none of our Jr’s left early), I would sure hope that we’ve had more Saban recruits drafted than Miles recruits drafted.

by LSU Jonno on May 27, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

I

wasn’t comparing Saban to Miles. I was comparing LSU to the rest of the CFB in relation to talent to make the point that LSU was pretty damn talented when they won 2 national titles in 4 years. So I ask you again, do you think you will be more talented than those teams?

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on May 27, 2009 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let's face it,

A box of rocks could have coached the 2007 LSU team to a nat. championship.

by CousinEddie on May 27, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Really?

You think that LSU team was the most talented in the country? Check out how many USC Trojans were drafted in 2008 and 2009, and they had an easier schedule than we did.

Richard Pittman

by Richard Pittman on May 27, 2009 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

I believe in 2007,

LSU had four first rounders taken in the first round, including the overal #1 pick. USC’s first player taken was the 45th pick in round two. I’m referring to 2007, not 2008 or 2009. How many players out of the 2007 class did Miles bring to LSU?

by CousinEddie on May 28, 2009 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

The 2007 draft was after the 2006 season.

So we won the 2007 NC after LOSING 4 first rounders.

Many LSU fans, including myself, think the 2006 team was more talented. Jimbo Fisher cost us a championship in 2006, not Miles.

The 2007 team had a lot of veteran guys who were team players. Flynn, Dorsey, Doucet.

The 2008 team had a lack of senior players.

by LSU Jonno on May 28, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah...

…it’s a good thing Dorsey was such a team player, ’cause he really sucked.

by NiceLittleSaturday on May 28, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

If

we would’ve chop blocked him, we would’ve won!

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on May 28, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, and out of the 2007 class...

None of Miles’ players were draft eligible yet.

by LSU Jonno on May 28, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

It bears pointing out..

That LSU had a ton of talent in 2006, especially high end talent. Everyone points out the 4 first rounders, but people seem to forget that we only had 5 total players drafted. The fifth one was in the 7th round. I really don’t think there’s a huge difference between late-first round talent and, say, mid-4th round talent, at least in how they impact a college football game. We had outstanding high end talent in 2006, but if you look at the draft closely we ended up having a lot fewer players drafted than Florida did, as well as a few others, and about as many as Auburn did. We lost two games that year: one to Auburn on the road, and the other to Florida on the road. We beat top 10 teams Arkansas and Tennessee, on the road. That was a team that simply fell victim to a killer road schedule. It could happen to any good team facing good competition.

Richard Pittman

by Richard Pittman on May 28, 2009 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think you made a valid point

about the SEC road games. I have seen several nat. title hopes destroyed due to SEC road games. Our level of competition is so much greater than say the Pac-10. Any Saturday, any SEC team can lose to any other SEC team. I disagree with you on the point of late 1st round talent compared to mid-4th round talent on how they impact college football. But hey, each player at each level is different.

by CousinEddie on May 29, 2009 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Do I think the talent level at LSU has dropped sine Miles has taken over?

No…

And recruiting rankings back that up. Since this year will be the first year that a Miles recruited class are seniors we’ll see how they stack up in the NFL draft.

by LSU Jonno on May 28, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

We'll

see how it plays out on the field. You know the drill Jonno, if he wins he’ll be viewed on par or better than Saban, if not, he was a great recruiter but bad coach. BUT, if he wins, us Alabama fans will just as quick to say that Miles benefited from the reputation LSU already had because of Saban. So be ready for that.

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on May 28, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

so LSU's elivated status

from the Dinardo years til when Saban won them a NC and left for the NFL didn’t actually happen? or did it happen retroactively to their NC, only after less miles came to town?

miles will need to build a program from utter crap into a national title winner and annual powerhouse to prove he’s Saban’s equal. no matter though, as he’s about to destroy everything Saban worked so hard to build. Calling them equals wont be up for discussion after the 2010 season is over.

one coach will have multiple national titles from programs that he built up (granted it took more work to get LSU where he got em) and the other coach will have the one title he got as care taker, and a program driven from prominence into obscurity.

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on May 28, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Obscurity...

…is a little much, methinks. There’s still too much talent there (to throw the corndogs a bone). Mediocrity, perhaps. Obscurity is reserved for Miles himself.

by NiceLittleSaturday on May 28, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Saban didn't build a program from utter crap..
miles will need to build a program from utter crap into a national title winner and annual powerhouse to prove he’s Saban’s equal. no matter though, as he’s about to destroy everything Saban worked so hard to build. Calling them equals wont be up for discussion after the 2010 season is over.

Saban didn’t build a program from utter crap. He was left with some pretty darn good talent when he took over for Gerry Dinardo. Dinardo had serious deficiencies as a coach, but you simply cannot look at those teams and conclude they had no talent. Among other players Saban inherited were Josh Reed, Lebrandon Toefield, Rohan Davey, Domanick Davis, Ryan Clark, Trev Faulk, Bradie James, Craig Nall, Kendrick Allen, Jarvis Green, Robert Royal, and Howard Green. Every one of those guys spent significant time in the NFL. At least 3 of them are still there, and probably others as well. None of them were “Nick Saban recruits.”

Richard Pittman

by Richard Pittman on May 28, 2009 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Looking at an old roster, I can't tell who among the freshmen were redshirts that Saban inherited..

Among those players are Eric Alexander, Rodney Reed, Nate Livings, and Randall Gay.

Richard Pittman

by Richard Pittman on May 28, 2009 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thats

true but LSU is going to get its fair share of good players due to geographical advantage alone. So its not like Dinardo was a great recruiter either. Saban took LSU from “getting its fair share” to a national program getting pretty much who they wanted. Saban won 12 games last year with Shula’s players but that doesn’t mean Shula was a great recruiter. Auburn beat Alabama in-state overall in recruiting during the Shula years. Saban arrives, and in a short time is owning the state and starting to build a national reputation as well. We have a top 2010 QB commit from Virginia (Sims) for example.

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on May 29, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Actually, Dinardo doesn't get nearly enough credit..

LSU has geographical advantages, but Dinardo was literally the first LSU coach that was able to really take advantage of that. Before Dinardo, Louisiana’s best players routinely went to Michigan, Florida State, Florida, and other out of state places. Dinardo was the coach who “built the fence”. The quintessential example was running back Kevin Faulk, who was exactly the kind of player that usually went out of state, but Dinardo’s first action as LSU coach was to convince Faulk to decommit from wherever he was going and commit to LSU. It was HUGE for the program, and its effects are still felt today. Dinardo was so focused (and so successful) at recruiting Louisiana the he actually overdid it. he stopped recruiting out of state to focus almost exclusively on in-state athletes. Saban corrected that, adding to Dinardo’s Louisiana recruiting base by recruiting Texas, Florida, and Alabama.

Richard Pittman

by Richard Pittman on May 29, 2009 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ok

but again you can’t be considered a national program, which LSU is today, without winning big. And LSU hadn’t done that until Saban arrived. You can’t tell me that LSU being the ONLY state school that it was that difficult of a sell for Dinardo to “put up the fence” there. Especially with the pressure high school kids feel to go there.

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on Jun 1, 2009 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

maybe i smoke too much pot

but i have even read CNS’s book “how good do you want to be?” which has a chapter or two about his national title winning team, from the year prior to the year of, and the only names on that list that ring a bell are josh reed, toefield, and davey…

what about glenn dorsey, dwayne bowe, and jamarcus russel the biggest and most well know LSU players since that guy who won a heisman for ya’ll back the 50’s? did saban recruit them?

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on May 29, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

He

didn’t but Lou Saban did. God rest his soul…

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on May 29, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Actually that's a really good list of players

Ryan Clark has been starting at safety for the Steelers the last couple years. Robert Royal I think is still in the NFL with the Bills. Domanick Davis was an outstanding running back whose NFL career was cut short by injuries. He was with the Texans, and it is said that Davis is the reason they passed on Reggie Bush to draft a defensive end. Davis got a serious injury (hip, I think) during the offseason and never played again, but he was outstanding. Bradie James is a starting linebacker for the Cowboys. Craig Nall backed up Brett Favre at Green Bay for a few years. Jarvis Green is a backup defensive end for the Patriots. The other guys played at least a year or two in the NFL. Most of those guys were still around when LSU won the conference in 2001.

Saban was the one who recruited Bowe out of Florida and Jamarcus out of Mobile, but Dorsey would have been a Tiger even in the Hallman years. He graduated the same high school as I did, and it is VERY pro-LSU.

Richard Pittman

by Richard Pittman on May 29, 2009 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

OK, so let me ask you this.

Name a goal that Miles can accomplish while at LSU for you to think that he is Nick Saban’s equal.

by LSU Jonno on May 29, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's...

…like asking someone to name a goal that their yard man could accomplish for them to think that he is Socrates’ equal. You’re asking too much.

by NiceLittleSaturday on May 30, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

beat Bama and Saban

In recruiting and on the field this year and over the next 2-3 years. I have a pretty strong feeling that ya’ll are gonna go 0’fer in crutin and on the field though. Given that Saban out recruited miles the last 3 season though miles was in a better position and that Bama won last year and nearly the year prior, when ya’ll had the monopoly of talent. Now that Bama has the talent AND the advantage in recruiting, miles is going to fade fast…

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on May 31, 2009 4:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

So, in order for Miles to win you over, he not only has to win on the field, but also in recruiting?

Why is anything more than winning on the field necessary? And you do realize how subjective, biased, inaccurate, and byzantine “recruiting rankings” are, don’t you?

Richard Pittman

by Richard Pittman on May 31, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

thats a good point

i honestly wouldn’t give a flying f if we constantly came in last in cruitin, and went 14-0 every year.

i dont think miles is going to win more than 1 of the next 4 games against us though. and i honestly think i’m being generous with 1 though.

nothin personal though, i dont mind LSU at all and was rootin for ya’ll in both BCS title games. i do dislike miles though, with his pedantic jackassery about “our new rival in f-in alabama”… also he strikes me as in over his head and ridding on coattails. i thought this before we hired CNS and it was affirmed for me by a lot of his comments and questionable decisions.

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on May 31, 2009 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

I

agree. LSU was almost beaten by Bama with a vastly less talented team in ’07, and you lost, albeit close and due to QB issues, to us in ’08. I think the playing field is much more even going forward, so we will see who is better.

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on Jun 1, 2009 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

LSU was almost beaten by a lot of teams in 2007 that weren’t as talented. They also beat the snot out of some very talented teams. It’s the freaking SEC!!!

LSU also lost some games when Saban was our coach to some less talented teams.

Bama wasn’t “vastly less talented” in 2007. They were “less talented” You don’t go from “vastly less talented” to 12-2 in one year in the SEC. It doesn’t happen. You guys seem to forget that Shula wasn’t a horrible recruiter, just that he wasn’t an elite recruiter.
Bama’s recruiting rankings that led to the 2007 team (Rivals).
2007 – 10th
2006 – 11th
2005 – 18th
2004 – 15th
Average – 13.5

LSU’s recruiting rankings that led to the 2007 team (Rivals).
2007 – 4
2006 – 7
2005 – 22
2004 – 2
Average – 8.75

I will say that I don’t think that a 5 spot average makes a whole hell lot of difference in the long run. Sure it is fun for bragging rights, but realistically the difference is just not there.

by LSU Jonno on Jun 1, 2009 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

I

do say vastly less talented and here’s why:

QB- LSU
D-line – LSU
Secondary – LSU
Return game – push
Kicking game – push
O-line – LSU

There wasn’t a single area in 2007 where I would give the nod to Alabama vs. LSU.

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on Jun 1, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're also forgetting...

…to include the 2003 classes, several members of which were still part of each program. I’d love for you to compare the rankings of those classes.

Also, Bama got to play LSU with a banged up (chopblock) Glen Dorsey. In contrast, LSU got to play Bama without our top three RBs, two starting O-linemen, including all-SEC C Antoine Caldwell, and two backup players.

On that particular day, we were more than a little less talented.

But due to superior coaching (and/or LSU’s inferior coaching), we had more than a fighting chance that day, until we fumbled it away. A great coach would have murdered us. A good coach would have put the game away by halftime. An average coach would have won by a little. Ed Orgeron would have lost by 10. Ergo, Les Miles > Ed Orgeron. Congrats.

by NiceLittleSaturday on Jun 1, 2009 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not going to look up exactly what our injury situation was at the time...

But LSU was playing without their top 3 DTs for most of the year.

Alexander was hurt in the 3rd game of the year I believe. Francois was suspended, and Dorsey as you said was chop blocked. We can play the injury game all day long, because LSU had guys missing in that game than a “banged up Dorsey”.

The point is, no, there wasn’t a vast difference in talent.

by LSU Jonno on Jun 2, 2009 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

If you...

…keep saying it, you’ll start to believe it.

by NiceLittleSaturday on Jun 2, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wouldn't it make sense..

that losing in recruiting and winning on the field would be the better accomplishment?

by Bob Barker on Jun 1, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

No

we must own the universe in all things football related.

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on Jun 1, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Haha..

nice. I’ll go ahead and concede all further possible future football accomplishments to Bama.

by Bob Barker on Jun 2, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

So Miles has to beat Saban for the next 3 years straight for Miles to be considered Saban's "equal"

That is laughable.

Let me put it like this. If these guys go at it 10 times. And the records are LSU 6 Bama 4 or 5-5 or 4-6, these guys are equals. End of Story.

Right now the score is 1-1. I doubt there is ever much distance between these two teams.

by LSU Jonno on Jun 1, 2009 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree...

…with your math. I just don’t expect to see it play out that well for you.

by NiceLittleSaturday on Jun 1, 2009 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Concur.

There is nothing Miles can do to win over the Bammers. It’s a good thing he doesn’t need to.

by LSU Jonno on May 29, 2009 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

We'll always...

…have corndogs. Here’s looking at your ridiculously huge hat you, kid.

by NiceLittleSaturday on May 30, 2009 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

on a semi-related note to the above discussion...

rooting around on steele’s site today he has posted a list of tackles returning for each team. florida leads the way with 98.9% returning. bama is at no. 6 with 85.1% and LSU tallies no. 25 with 74.4%. this suggests bama and lsu should be able to protect their QBs as they get accustomed to starting and the tebow child is gonna be damn near impossible to reach.

at the other end of the scale we have auburn at no. 53 with 67.1%, ole miss at 60 with 66.1 percent and tennessee at 99 with 55.4%. the lack of depth is likely going to take its toll down the stretch and that’s even if they don’t incur a rash of injuries.
it’s also worth noting arkansas, very quietly, has amassed an experience squad themselves. they are at no. 16 with 79.4%, just a hair behind oklahoma.

by kleph on May 26, 2009 6:44 PM CDT reply actions  

i thought that at first too...

the copy is riddled with typos as you might expect but he clearly – and repeatedly – says" the % of tackles returning" (its a similar wording on his FB page which is how i stumbled onto it.) and it’s in reference to experience in specific positions so i thought he must mean O line depth.

yet, on re-reading he says we return guys “from their excellent D” which makes it seem like he means “tacklers.” if that’s the case, it casts an interesting light on your argument above in terms of defense returning as well.

i love steele to death but sometimes it’s hard as hell to make out exactly what he’s saying.

by kleph on May 26, 2009 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

yeah, I think the best way to formulate it is..

Players returning for Team X recorded Y percent of its tackles last year. Rate teams by variable Y.

I can tell you almost for certain that every single player who played a snap at offensive tackle for LSU last year returns this year. We may have had a walk-on play some garbage time, but otherwise all of our offensive tackles return.

Richard Pittman

by Richard Pittman on May 26, 2009 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

I personally think

that Florida missing 2.1% of a tackle is enough to get to Tebow.

I bleed crimson and white...I puke Vol puke orange. RTR

by SugarBowl93 on May 27, 2009 3:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

But...

…which 2.1%? If it’s part of his foot, sure, but what if it’s just a chunk of his belly flab?

by NiceLittleSaturday on May 27, 2009 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Never underestimate a chunck of belly flab...

Them tackles has got ’em for a reason!

I bleed crimson and white...I puke Vol puke orange. RTR

by SugarBowl93 on May 27, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

They didn't move

Percy Harvin to the line, did they?

I bleed crimson and white...I puke Vol puke orange. RTR

by SugarBowl93 on May 27, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

The line up maybe

as in suspects

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on May 27, 2009 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

haha

at least phil steele got the julio picture right!

so easy... even an Auburn fan can do it!

by K. brevis on May 26, 2009 8:42 PM CDT reply actions  

Steele's predictions are worthless!!

I listened to him last year on Finebaum and he sounded so authoritative picking Auburn to crush Bama. He was so fixated on Auburn he coulded see their obvious weaknesses and lack of team chemistry (evidenced by fights and transfers in the spring).

I hope we aren’t overlooking Bama’s weaknesses (O-line & QB). I think the winner of the SEC West will likely have two losses. Lots of talented teams Bama, LSU & Ole Miss with much improved Miss St., Ark & Boogs. In the East, its Florida and eveybody else. For some reason, I see Ole Miss faltering and Bama v. LSU deciding the winner of the West.

by heffie on May 27, 2009 2:45 PM CDT reply actions  

I

don’t think Bama fans are overlooking those weaknesses. How could we? We’ve been used to seeing the same guy at QB for the last 3 years. But I do think some in the media are overlooking them.

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on May 27, 2009 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Man

This is the thread that doesn’t end. On one end, you’ve got a lot of ‘Bama friends who continue to state the real public and media-profession profession that Les “the Meaux-ron” Miles is a so-so (at best) college football coach, especially compared with Coach Nick “F”-off Saban and on the other you’ve got obviously jaded LSU folks who continue to persistently cling to the idea that Meaux-ron Miles is REALLY the coach they really like who is doing an admirable job trying to carry Saban’s jock.

Whew! What a doozy. All’s I know, is I’ve read a few publications that predict LSU being in the Capital One bowl and ‘Bama predicted to be in the Fiesta. Hmmmm? (this year, just like last year. . . .Saban comes out on top). I don’t know though? Year 2 over at Team Speed Kills really likes LSU defensive coordinator John Chavis and thinks Bo Pelini was REALLY the coach over at LSU that made that team top-tier. (still, no thanks nor love for Miles)

It’s Saban for goodness sakes people. Talk about brains and the having one?

Comer4tide to Nico2.0: "How come I've never heard of any of your random songs?"
Todd to Comer: "Because if you had, he wouldn't listen to it. BOOM. Roasted."
Nico to Todd: "Shouldn't you be off voguing somewhere?"

by BixBeiderbecke on Jun 2, 2009 9:12 AM CDT reply actions  

[edit]

Meant to write, “. . .and media-profession PERCEPTION”

Ahem.

Comer4tide to Nico2.0: "How come I've never heard of any of your random songs?"
Todd to Comer: "Because if you had, he wouldn't listen to it. BOOM. Roasted."
Nico to Todd: "Shouldn't you be off voguing somewhere?"

by BixBeiderbecke on Jun 2, 2009 9:12 AM CDT reply actions  

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