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We Were All Just Fooling Around, then Houston Nutt Had to Take it Too Far

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Put that thing away, you hairy monster!

Somewhere amidst the frozen wastes of Michigan Brian Cook just got very warm in horrifying places:

The SEC is considering sponsoring NCAA legislation to cap football signing classes at 28 players, or unilaterally make it a conference-wide rule. Several SEC schools have signed more than 30 players in recent years, including 37 by Ole Miss last February. The NCAA allows 25 players to enroll in the fall.

"I was very concerned last year when we had one institution sign a lot of players, and that was the catalyst for these discussions," SEC Commissioner Mike Slive said today from the spring meetings.

That's right, kids, the SEC is preparing to put a voluntary cap on signees, and yet somehow it wasn't the unspeakable evil that is Nick Saban and his black hearted recruiting practices that did it. Instead, it was Houston Nutt's sly creation of a de facto Ole Miss farm league that got the powers that be to take action.  Is this a bad thing for Alabama?  Probably not.  Saban's second signing class was over the proposed cap at 32 but this year's was only 27, one under the cap, and with the talent streaming in like it is there shouldn't be a need to sign that many again.  And just looking around the league, it's probably a beneficial thing for recruits as well. 

There's always the risk of somehow, someway you're not going to be able to defer entry and then you could be caught in a place where you either violate the national letter of intent or NCAA limitations, although I've only seen that happen once in my seven years in the league. (emphasis mine)

Slive makes an excellent point here, but it has only happened once and I maintain that Nick Saban is not the kind of guy that would gamble on the ability of his staff to recruit the kind of top shelf talent he covets by grabbing a bunch of recruits and then screwing some of them (or current players) over.  High school coaches simply aren't going to feed players to a coach/school that they think will end up hurting said player in the long run.  Considering Tennessee coaches were (at least temporarily) banned from a Florida power house for comments made Lane Kiffin that didn't really hurt anything but the town's pride, imagine what would happen if Local Sports Hero X accepted a scholarship from Alabama and found out he wasn't getting it after all because too many people got signed.  Do you really think anyone from that school would be playing for Nick Saban again?  Don't think so. All in all, it's probably a good rule in light of Nutt's hijinks this past signing season, but at the same time I still think it's still an unecessary one.

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I understand the concern, of course.

No one wants a player to be offered a scholly, only to lose it because they couldn’t be fit in a given class somehow. But a cap like that forgets the other side of the issue too – these players are getting free rides to major universities, and though playing is what they come for, a free education is nothing to sneeze at. Saban signed 32 players, and was able to fit all of them in – yeah, maybe they didn’t play for a year or two, but they’ll get their four years if they work hard, produce on the field and keep their grades up, and in the meantime, they are getting a stinkin’ good education on someone else’s dime. Are we going to now deny kids that opportunity because, horror of horrors, there is a microscopic chance that someone might get messed up by the system? Slive said it only happened once in his seven years – okay, how many players did it not happen to? With each team having 85 scholarship players per year, in the SEC that’s 1,020 players to come through the SEC each year alone. In seven years, one out of 7,140 players got cheated out of what he should have had. I’d like to crunch the numbers on all other forms of getting scholarships and see if they have better track records. This is completely unnecessary, and will only serve to lessen the level of talent that comes into the SEC.

I bleed crimson and white...I puke Vol puke orange. RTR

by SugarBowl93 on May 27, 2009 8:35 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

BTW...

the 7,140 players is a bit misleading, since many of the same players are getting schollies in repeated years. Maybe the better way to say that was out of 7,140 chances of cheating a player, only one didn’t get what he should have. I’m going on the assumption (that Cook would “never” agree with) that scholarships are one-year opportunities that can get pulled due to lack of performance or bad grades, etc.

I bleed crimson and white...I puke Vol puke orange. RTR

by SugarBowl93 on May 27, 2009 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eh...

… I still really do not see where this is an issue. I mean yes you do see someone like Nutt signing an ungodly massive class, but I have yet to see an example of a kid who signed, who is academically qualified, that was turned away because the school in question signed too many people.

In reality, all these big classes usually mean is that the class is full of academic casualties. That doesn’t mean anyone is going to get left out in the cold, it just means that a lot of the signees are headed to JUCO or a prep school. By adding a rule like this, I think all you would do is really eliminate the chances of kids with poor academics getting signed. With that rule in place, you wouldn’t have the room to oversign in other areas to compensate for the possibility that that player does not qualify.

And at any rate, speaking of our 2008 class, it really wasn’t that big. We signed 31 guys total, but when you factor out by the Bryant scholarship and a couple of early enroll guys, we were literally only about two or three players above 25, so that wasn’t even a particularly big class.

by outsidethesidelines on May 27, 2009 9:06 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I dont see the need...

for this rule. It sounds like a rule that would limit the depth of talent in the SEC more than anything… Sounds like Slive might be getting some kind of kick back from other conferences. I highly doubt it but its the only reason I see to have this rule! I dont care how many kids someone signs. I say, if the kids want to come, let em! By the way, how many kids did Coach Bryant sign each year?

by BamaBoy777 on May 27, 2009 10:10 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Bryant...

…had the advantage of nearly unlimited scholarships. Current teams are at the mercy of the 85/25 rule, i.e. they can have 85 players on scholarship at a time and can only add 25 recruits each year, so long as they never go over the 85 max. Schools can sign over 25 in a given so long as no more than 25 (or however many they have room for relative to the 85 scholarship cap) actually enroll that year (overages either grey shirt or don’t qualify and go the JUCO route and come back later).

by Todd on May 27, 2009 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well...

… Bryant didn’t have absolute free reign over scholarships. Early on in his tenure he was able to sign an ungodly amount of kids, but then again so did all of the other major programs too. Doing that wasn’t giving us any advantage over the likes of Tennessee, Georgia, LSU, Auburn, and others. We were just doing the same thing they were doing.

By the mid-1970’s, though, scholarship limitations were in full effect. At that point, you could only have 95 kids on scholarship, which really isn’t all that different from what you have today.

by outsidethesidelines on May 27, 2009 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A bit more...

… back in the mid-1960’s, the SEC had a limit on scholarships of 140. Now, there may have been limits on the annual number that you could sign, but if there was I haven’t found any firm evidence of it. The general strategy was to sign an army of high school prospects, and then run off all but the best. I’ve specifically read several times before that Bryant brought in over 100 prospects in his first recruiting class at UA, but four years later there was only about 11 guys left.

At any rate, the 140 number was obviously high and caused a lot of controversy, and that was one of the big reasons why Georgia Tech and Tulane left the conference. Finally, in 1973, the NCAA stepped in with a uniform rule, and said no more than 105 on scholarship.

By the late 1970’s, however, a new rule was in effect, this one stating you couldn’t sign more than 30 players in a given year or have over 95 players total on scholarship. From what I’ve read on this, though, there was a bit of an exception for redshirts such that they wouldn’t count against the total, so that seemingly allowed things to get a bit higher. Anyway, in the late 1980’s the NCAA cut it a bit more, keeping the 95 overall, but reducing the maximum allowed in a single year to 25.

Then in 1992, they really started to phase in major changes again. Starting in ‘92, they incrementally over three years brought the total down from 95 to 85, and that’s where we are today. Going into 2010, the current 85/25 regime has now been in place for 16 years, and from what I can tell that’s the longest any such rule has been in place since the NCAA really started policing in this area decades ago.

by outsidethesidelines on May 28, 2009 2:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, I live in Michigan!

Frozen wasteland in the winter maybe, but we have absolutely beautiful summers and our state is beyond gorgeous. I don’t want to talk about our economy, as it’s the east side of the state that is the big problem. West Michigan is where it’s at!

RTR!

by Siggy778 on May 27, 2009 10:30 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

question for those with better insight on this than myself.

won’t this policy create a hierarchy of the “haves” by making it almost impossible for the “have nots” to bolster their roster with recruiting talent to kick start their programs?

by kleph on May 28, 2009 7:33 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

or will this be another leveller?

Perhaps, this limit will force top-tier programs to recruit to close earlier than they have in the past. Perhaps, this will force out some top-tier talent when they can’t make up their mind before March and leave them to lower-tier programs. Hence, a levelling effect?

by crimson37 on May 28, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

thats a good point

you’d see a lot less willingness to “wait n see” from schools like Bama and Florida, and those NSD press conferences might be fewer and more far between.

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on May 28, 2009 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think...

…that the reason the SEC is ‘considering’ supporting the legislation is mainly to send a message to coaches to not get too Nutt-y in their recruiting practices. And maybe to say: Houston, you have a problem.

by NiceLittleSaturday on May 28, 2009 11:33 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Nutt...

…needs a Bro a.k.a. Manssiere (man-zeer).

by NiceLittleSaturday on May 28, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

true...but that just adds to the appeal...

seeing those man-boobs flopping everytime he winces…

enjoy...

by SpockJenkins on May 28, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I

can’t help but think Slive is playing politician here. Going out in public and waggin his finger with threats exercising his authority on a certain issue. But if anything substantive comes of it I’ll be suprised.

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on May 29, 2009 2:26 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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