The NCAA auto de fé
by kleph on Jun 11, 2009 8:00 AM CDT
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And, after much anticipation and even more unfounded speculation, the NCAA auto de fe is finally upon us. The grand inquisitors of the Infractions Committee have reached their decision on the fate of the University of Alabama for the so-called Textbook Scandal. The punishment of the heretics in the name of the faith will become known later today at that most holy rite known as "the press conference."
By this point you should know the drill. UA scholarship athletes were using their sweet deal at the bookstore to obtain discounts for friends. Five football players were suspended for four games but, allegedly, as many as 200 athletes from a smorgasbord of sports were involved. The rumor du jour calls for a slew of vacated wins but no loss of scholarships (will no one think of Shula's quest to catch Paterno!?!).
We here at RBR couldn’t be happier. Think of all this as the great gallstone of off-season tomfoolery and as painful as it may be we’ll be so much happier once it’s gone. About all we can do is sit back, get comfortable and enjoy the wafting odor of burning tires and schadenfreude for the next six hours or so.
Now lets see what folks are saying, shall we?
Like most of us, Wolfe Reports just wants the damn thing done with:
This will certainly cast a pall over an otherwise excellent offseason, in which Bama has been picked by a number of experts to represent the SEC West in Atlanta again, and a Top 10 preseason favorite. But, fuck it. We’ve been through this before with coaches who fouled up and didn’t exert proper control over their players, so let’s go.
Over at DBH Dance Party the wait is killing him softly with it's song:
I've had the same stomach-in-knots feeling people usually get when they're approaching a big test: sure, I want to get it over with so we can all move on; part of me also wishes it was 2 weeks away so I could keep putting it off.
Third Saturday in Blogtober weighs in with a delightful observation about the university's track record with transparency. And then refuse to let the looming announcement harsh their mellow; "No schollie loses, no post-season ban, no worries, man."
Of course, on the other end of the spectrum is Eight in the Box who is "sick and tired of being sick and tired of the excuses," but already asking if we should be considering an appeal of the ruling. Capstone Report is reminding folks not to overlook the hidden villain to the drama - the athletic department bureaucracy. The Birmingham News' Ray Melick asks both questions and, through a fury of rhetorical questions, lays the responsibility at the feet of Robert Witt.
Still, the most important thing from here on out, says Bama Sports Report, is staying clean.
What must happen now is simple - Alabama must avoid NCAA violations for the next five years. Period... make no mistake about it… if Bama ends up in fromt of the NCAA again in the next five years because of a football violation, the NCAA will likely come down hard.
Keep checking in. We'll be updating this list as the day goes on...
9:14 am: The good Doctor weighs in.
Next to either of those scandals [Oklahoma and FSU's], Alabama's textbook scam -- in which the offending players reportedly paid back the money the school lost through their book-lending plan -- is a misdemeanor, and one the Tide self-reported at that. The stern wrist-slapping here seems to be more of the three-strikes-you're-out variety than a response to the latest offense.
10:44 am: Joe Cribbs Car Wash (and Sen. Blutarsky) makes a very good point:
The real developments here are that Mike Slive's dream of a probation-less SEC is dead again--way to ruin it for everyone, guys--and that a second set of sanctions, with 'Bama hypothetically a repeat repeat violator, could see the NCAA bring their Serious Hammer out of the closet.
11:47 am: Rocky Top Talk finds a rather biased headline for a story on today's proceedings.
12:26 pm: The wailing and gnashing of teeth begins. Deadspin, Saurian Sagacity, Fanhouse and FanIQ all offer laments how this is just a "slap on the wrist" for a renegade program sullying the game with it's uncouth antics.
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Shula was Oh so Close.
haha.
Auburn fans are like slinkys... not really good for anything but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
I
don’t know how I feel about it honestly. I’m thrilled to have no scholly losses but vacating wins? Sounds like a mythical punishment to me. What’s the point?
"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken
I guess the players were "ineligible"
Do you think we appeal?
Auburn fans are like slinkys... not really good for anything but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
Yeah
but Pete said they can only force us to vacate wins from the point that the university knew about the violations.
I hope we do appeal honestly, what do we have to lose?
"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken
Not necessarily true...
I think the more relevant question is not when we knew the players became ineligible, but when we should have known the players were ineligible.
by outsidethesidelines on Jun 11, 2009 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions
I keep forgetting that they’re considering these major violations, which I think is absurd.
For major extra-benefit violations, I believe the offenders become ineligible as soon as it happens. I’d have to read back through the rules on that.
by PeteHoliday on Jun 11, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions
totally agree...
Students selling textbooks without the Universities knowledge is not a major violation…Auburn hiring Chizik is more offensive than that!
‘When you build a house and you make it hurricane-proof by putting certain kinds of windows in it, and use cement instead of stick construction and all that kind of stuff, you’re getting prepared for what? A hurricane that may or may never every come." ’We’re going to have 12 hurricanes next year, we know they’re coming.’
- Coach Nick Saban
They weren't even selling them
They were LENDING them. Or, alternately, BUYING them.
by PeteHoliday on Jun 11, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Bens4vcobra is right: Alabama has to appeal
Circa 2005, Georgia Tech was caught fielding multiple academically ineligible athletes in several sports over a period of at least seven years. The Yellow Jackets were forced to vacate wins. On appeal, the wins were reinstated.
Circa 2007, Oklahoma athletes were working bogus summer jobs. The Sooners were forced to vacate wins. On appeal, the wins were reinstated.
Circa 2008, Florida State athletes were caught in a substantial academic scandal. The Seminoles were forced to vacate wins. It appears very likely that, on appeal, the wins will be reinstated.
The present punishment levied against Alabama was for a significantly less serious infraction. If the Crimson Tide appeal these sanctions, the wins will be reinstated . . . guaranteed.
Go 'Dawgs!
Beat me to it
Maize n Brew
Because Football is Better with Beer
by Maize n Brew Dave on Jun 11, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
If the rumors are true of vacated wins and 3 yrs probation...
I’d say the punishment fits the crime.
Glad to know we’ll be able to beat you guys at full strength so you won’t have any excuses… : )
Glad to know we’ll be able to beat you guys at full strength
You’ll have the opportunity, whether or not you’ll be “able” to is another story.l
by PeteHoliday on Jun 11, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Jonno
You honestly believe that this silly textbook thing is worthy of any punishment at all? I get that the students who participated should be punished (and being suspended for a game is enough to me) and making sure the university as put a stop to the “scam” is something that the NCAA should force UA to do. BUT vacating wins…probation…seems to me when compared to violations, this is about as weak as you can get….
‘When you build a house and you make it hurricane-proof by putting certain kinds of windows in it, and use cement instead of stick construction and all that kind of stuff, you’re getting prepared for what? A hurricane that may or may never every come." ’We’re going to have 12 hurricanes next year, we know they’re coming.’
- Coach Nick Saban
True, but...
… we really aren’t getting “punished” here at all, plain and simple.
We lose zero scholarships. We do vacate some rather meaningless wins, but that’s a complete non-punishment, and at any rate there’s probably a good chance we get those back on appeal. Aside from that, the probation sucks, but what exactly does it mean? Nothing really… if we go back before the COI any time soon (and perhaps ever) on major, competitive-advantage-gaining infractions, we’re totally fucked, probation or not.
So that’s it, there really is no punishment, and thus the punishment fits the crime. No real crime, no real punishment, simple as that. It’s a ticky-tacky offense, and a slap on the wrist sentence.
by outsidethesidelines on Jun 11, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
ok
sure its not a heavy punishment..but my point is that this whole thing is a non issue…Im not even sure why the NCAA looked into this at all..
‘When you build a house and you make it hurricane-proof by putting certain kinds of windows in it, and use cement instead of stick construction and all that kind of stuff, you’re getting prepared for what? A hurricane that may or may never every come." ’We’re going to have 12 hurricanes next year, we know they’re coming.’
- Coach Nick Saban
word.
The NCAA get’s to “flex its muscle” and act like it’s doing something, but in reality Bama get’s by with no real damage.
As long as you don’t vacate wins during an SEC championship season, who cares? As has been said before on this site, we all know who won the games.
i mean i get that but
its still a black mark on our record when it seems that we are really actually trying to do things the right way.
‘When you build a house and you make it hurricane-proof by putting certain kinds of windows in it, and use cement instead of stick construction and all that kind of stuff, you’re getting prepared for what? A hurricane that may or may never every come." ’We’re going to have 12 hurricanes next year, we know they’re coming.’
- Coach Nick Saban
Well, I understand your point.
I mean, do I think that some of the recruiting violations that Kiffin has committed or that AU may have committed at Big Cat Weekend are a bigger deal than this? Well yeah. But that’s because UT and AU may have illegally swayed a recruit their way that potentially could have gone to LSU.
I’m looking at this through purple and gold colored glasses thinking, what the hell do I care that Bama players were sneaking around scoring a few extra bucks under the university’s nose? But rules are rules nevertheless, even if you or I or anyone else with a brain doesn’t understand them. The point is it doesn’t matter what we think, but luckily for you guys in this case the punishment does seem to have fit the crime.
To
be fair there was no proof that any of them were selling the books/materials. They were simply getting “extra” books for classes they weren’t signed up for, and distributing them to their friends (i.e. non-scholarship athletes, walk-ons etc…).
"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken
by Bens4vcobra on Jun 11, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah
As far as I know, according to their book scholarship, they had to turn those same books back into the book store at the end of the season. Now, its not impossible that say, there’s a $100 book that I’ll sell to you for $25 but you have to give it back to me at the end of the semester so I can turn it back into the bookstore. However, you HAVE to get it back to turn in or the jig is up. So, the likely scenario is that they only did it for close friends and significant others, and didn’t charge them anything.
I could be completely incorrect about all that, but I’m under the impression that’s how it worked.
by Bobby Briggs on Jun 11, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
I think the best way...
… to sum up what the players in question were doing is this… they were wrongly acquiring book rentals for the semester for their friends.
by outsidethesidelines on Jun 11, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
roundtable idiots
are saying they did sell textbooks.
"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken
Does anyone have a take on whether this situation could have been easily prevented on Mal’s part? I know you can’t prevent every loophole, but how could you let the problem grow to the extreme before taking action?
Well, that's a tough question
Mal is in charge, so he bears ultimate responsibility. And obviously this was something that could have been discovered.
On the other hand, Mal and company did take swift and harsh action once they found out, and from all that we can tell the compliance staff basically did everything possible. Furthermore, it has been reported in several places that the textbook distribution system that we had in place was very common throughout the country, and that this type of exploitation probably occurred at many other schools as well.
All in all, it’s just hard to say.
by outsidethesidelines on Jun 11, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm still ticked
Mainly because it gives the haters—not Jonno, who kind of cracked me up, there—but the Barners a chance to scream “dirty!” that much more. It’s a ridiculous over-emphasis on this case, and I can’t help but feeling like they’re making an example of a big program to scare the others.
My legal analysis, in toto: this sucks.
Never quit. It is the easiest cop-out in the world.
People who scream dirty are very naive in this case.
It’s one thing to pay recruits, this is a different story. I usually don’t have many supporters on this opinion, and that’s OK, but I think this sort of thing is very common…I also think the sort of thing that is going on at FSU with the academic fraud is very common in D1 programs.
I think it is very likely that every SEC major D1 sports program has their own version of a text book scandal or academic fraud scandal of their own.
Did you say paying players?
/still waiting for Tee Martin to be called for the carpet, much less Reggie Bush.
I just won a t-shirt tearing contest against the Tennessee coaching staff
by Stuck in the Plains on Jun 11, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions
auto de fe?
What’s the auto de fe? / It’s what you ought’nt to do but you do anyway!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5McSEU48Y8
the inquisition / here we go/ the inquisition / what a show / we’re on a mission….
Maize n Brew
Because Football is Better with Beer
by Maize n Brew Dave on Jun 11, 2009 11:07 AM CDT reply actions
Bear Bryant Play
Have ya’ll seen Clay Travis’ write up on the Bear Bryant play? Pretty funny.
Also, has anyone seen this theatrical performance?
i purposefully avoid anything travis writes for the same reason i eschew petting a running chainsaw. the result is unpleasant and there is zero upshot to the endeavor. but if you like reading something that has the intellectual depth of a two-cycle engine, be my guest.
and nico reviewed it back in january.
Yeesh
I like Clay Travis myself, but yeah, that particular article sucks. And its not because my skin is too thin or I’m drinking the crimson kool-aid, I’m not offended. Its just not funny.
by Bobby Briggs on Jun 11, 2009 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions
his take on JP
WAS masterful. http://www.cbssports.com/spin/story/9589959
I just won a t-shirt tearing contest against the Tennessee coaching staff
by Stuck in the Plains on Jun 11, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
breaking...
FOX6 noon news includes comments from Saban. http://media.myfoxal.com/live/indexlive.html
My whole thing about this is that...
this did not create for us a competative edge on the field. Hell, it didn’t even create an edge in the classroom, so if something doesn’t encroach into the arena of fair play and legitimate education, it should be out of the NCAA’s hands all together. It’s the University’s money paying for these scholarships, and scholarship money paying for these books.
However, if a true infraction was committed (as this evidently is), punish all infractions based on the severity crime. E.G. if you gain nothing on the field or classroom from the infraction (which is rare), punish based on that; but if you do gain a competative edge in one or both, take away wins and schollys, etc. But be consistent, dammit!
Lack of institutional control? Horsesh*t!
Repeat Offender Status? For this? That’s like a guy on probation for manslaughter getting hit with 3 more years in the pen after getting picked up for loitering…
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success" - Coach Bryant
And another thing, since I'm already pissed...
And I’m basically going to make fun of us to prove my point, so viewer discression is advised…
But how does Elders’ first degree robbery and Johns’ possession of narcotics not display a lack of institutional control, but getting extra textbooks does? Is it because of the difference in quantity between the two examples? No, that can’t be it, because Da U and UT would be on probation for the rest of forever due to lack of institutional control. It’s because the former example proves that every activity of an individual is out of another individual’s control. So where the NCAA gets off calling this a Major Infraction, or an infraction at all, is beyond me…
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success" - Coach Bryant
right there with you brother..
i personally think that UA should be throwing a fit but thats me. Allowing the NCAA to hand down probation to any school with really no guidlines on which to do so is very fishy. I mean sure they have a list of do’s and don’t’s but no real guideline to determine what punishment will be handed down for a particular infraction…its load of crap to me.
oh yeah think about how many years probation UF would be hit with due to all their “criminal” problems since Urban has arrived…
‘When you build a house and you make it hurricane-proof by putting certain kinds of windows in it, and use cement instead of stick construction and all that kind of stuff, you’re getting prepared for what? A hurricane that may or may never every come." ’We’re going to have 12 hurricanes next year, we know they’re coming.’
- Coach Nick Saban
But how does Elders’ first degree robbery and Johns’ possession of narcotics not display a lack of institutional control, but getting extra textbooks does
First, this was not a Lack of Institutional Control violation, it was a “failure to monitor” violation. HUGE difference.
Second, the university is not charged with keeping players from committing felonies, nor is the commission of a felony an NCAA rules infraction.
Contrariwise, the university IS charged with knowing what it can and cannot permissibly give to scholarshipped athletes. The Failure to Monitor charge is completely inescapable because employees of the university and the university’s policies where what caused/allowed the violation. Players were allowed to get extra books because the university failed to sufficiently monitor the textbook distribution program.
The punishment is a little silly, and calling this a “major” infraction is beyond ridiculous for the football program, but it’s a legit violation.
by PeteHoliday on Jun 11, 2009 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Wouldn't it be...
…pretty easy for the NCAA to find out how many other programs have been failing to monitor their textbook distribution and assess penalties for the same? My guess is we’re talking about upwards of 60% of FBS schools.
by NiceLittleSaturday on Jun 11, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions
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