My thoughts on this "textbook" thing..
by bammer on Jun 11, 2009 10:58 AM CDT
18 comments
The more i read about sanctions...probation...loss of scholly's...vacated wins...the more i just get really pissed about this whole thing. I know I'm not the only one but god I think this whole thing is silly..
Its TEXTBOOKS people! Its not like there was this underground ring of students selling textbooks to the masses as if it were crack...Its also not like we had a high profile player sell books to undercover NCAA agents..multiple times! This was a bunch of kids working the system in an attempt to make a buck...That doesn't make it right but it certainty doens't make it a violation..
I just can't believe that we are sitting here today waiting on the ball (or bomb) to drop. Sure the punishment looks to be lighter than originally thought but the fact still remains that this is nothing more than the NCAA trying to flex its wimpy little muscle at us. If this had happened to any other school, the NCAA would have considered this a minor violation. Hell Kiffin has already had what 50 minor infractions so far this season and they actually effect what might happen on the field of play (because it involved recruiting players)...this "textbook" thing has no significant relevance to what happens on Saturdays....its gives no team an advantage..Im pretty sure Shula wasn't going around saying.."Pist...if you come play at Alabama...you can sell your books for a profit!".
So why again is this something the NCAA deems as a "major" infraction?. I know the NCAA is nothing but a bunch of nerds trying to get back at the jocks but what is their freakin deal! And I don't buy the repeat offender BS. Thats like saying cause I cheated at Phase Ten last week, then I did in fact knowingly cheat on my diet today...one has nothing to do with the other..
Im just amazed at whats going on...I swear to everything that is holy...if USC doesn't get hit with a 1000 lb mallet for what they have done...we should burn the NCAA to the ground...cause its more hypocritical then a New York politician and serves absolutely no purpose..plus they gave us this BCS system we all love to hate...
I know its hard for rivals to do but if they took off their "we hate Alabama cause they are cheaters" goggles just for a sec..theyd see this is one huge farce...
Ok..now i feel better..
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It hasn't all played out yet...
The athletes in question stole books, etc from UA, via the Supe Store. This is a fact, stupid or not. I don’t have a copy of the finding of the infractions committee, but from my expirience in the audits/surveillance world, what the NCAA is looking at isn’t solely the actions of the students involved.
The NCAA had to evaluate UA’s ability to investigate, punish, and prevent further undesirable occurances. That doesn’t mean we won’t be punished for allowing the event to occur, on the contrary, we should be. The better the university proves it’s capabilty to police itself, the less they have to worry about (deserved or not) UA.
In the end UA and the AD have to be eternally vigilant to prevent these types of episodes. Integrity is the ability to do the correct thing, even when no one is looking. The problem the NCAA sees is we have proven time and again we only care while they are looking. Once we clear this mindset of we are being picked on, and realize we need drastic change in the way we view the rulebook provided, this will continue to haunt us.
Offense sells tickets. Defense wins games. - Paul W. "Bear" Bryant
by TheRedTideConsumes on Jun 11, 2009 11:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Let me ask you this..
What does the AD have to do with what happens at book stores?
I was just talking about this issue with a guy in my office who was on scholly at a AA school for basketball…he said you wouldn’t believe how coomon this stuff is and he admitted to doing this very thing…btw…he’s a UGA fan.
‘When you build a house and you make it hurricane-proof by putting certain kinds of windows in it, and use cement instead of stick construction and all that kind of stuff, you’re getting prepared for what? A hurricane that may or may never every come." ’We’re going to have 12 hurricanes next year, we know they’re coming.’
- Coach Nick Saban
by bammer on Jun 11, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Athletic Department is reponsible for it's athletes...
…therefore responsible for policing their actions. A leader is responsible for the actions of his/her subbordinates. The attitude of “it’s okay becasue we have always done it that way” is exactly WHY we are here again. As it turns out we were always boned up!
Does this type of thing happen elsewhere? sure! Does that make it any less wrong? NO!
Offense sells tickets. Defense wins games. - Paul W. "Bear" Bryant
by TheRedTideConsumes on Jun 11, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also...
…you cannot apply moral relativism to an orgazation rulebook.
Offense sells tickets. Defense wins games. - Paul W. "Bear" Bryant
by TheRedTideConsumes on Jun 11, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
organizational, even.
Offense sells tickets. Defense wins games. - Paul W. "Bear" Bryant
by TheRedTideConsumes on Jun 11, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm prolly wrong on this one...
The problem the NCAA sees is we have proven time and again we only care while they are looking.
…but I thought we self-reported this problem and addressed how we were cleaning it up on our own.
I definitely agree that we need to get our sh#t together and prove ourselves worthy of taking care of our own business. I’m also relieved that the NCAA didn’t hammer us to the degree I feared they might. On the other hand, I really just don’t understand how all this works.
We got hammered in the mid-90s for not telling the NCAA that one of our players got drunk and signed a cocktail napkin at Pat O’Brien’s, a ‘contract’ that would not stand up in a court of law. Then, we got hammered earlier this decade based on an allegation that was never proven. Now, we’re getting three additional years probation because about a half-dozen football players were involved in improperly using their textbook funds, and we found out about it, and we fixed the system, and we turned ourselves in for it.
I’ll admit I haven’t been the top student in the class on this issue, so if someone can clear this up for me, it would be appreciated.
by NiceLittleSaturday on Jun 11, 2009 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a cocktail napkin at Pat O’Brien’s, a ‘contract’ that would not stand up in a court of law
Maybe right but it was improper “contact” with an agent, not that he signed a contract.
"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken
by Bens4vcobra on Jun 11, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Improper contact...
…like when you’re a young man, and you’re sitting in a bar after the biggest game of your life, and you’ve had too much to drink, and a flippin’ shark comes up to you and makes you an offer that sounds too good to be true, and in your drunken state you fall for it?
Or did he grab his butt?
by NiceLittleSaturday on Jun 11, 2009 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, the law doesn’t really care what kind of paper a contract is written on.
by PeteHoliday on Jun 11, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No...
…but it does care whether or not you’re crocked when you sign it.
by NiceLittleSaturday on Jun 11, 2009 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Post tele-conference, we have more info...
In listening to the teleconference, it was fairly obvious that the committee had seen improvement in the university to police itself, hence the did not envoke the extreme spectrum of the repeat violator available punishments. The punishment was due to the repeat violator status, to me at least.
Offense sells tickets. Defense wins games. - Paul W. "Bear" Bryant
by TheRedTideConsumes on Jun 11, 2009 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We Did It
And we self reported it to the NCAA. And we’re getting off light, considering we were still on probation at the time. You’d have to be a pretty big homer with some coke bottle thick crimson glasses not to be happy about how this turned out.
by Bobby Briggs on Jun 11, 2009 11:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well then
paint me crimson..
Trust me im VERY happy with we did or didn’t receive…but that doesn’t mean i agree or like what has happened.
‘When you build a house and you make it hurricane-proof by putting certain kinds of windows in it, and use cement instead of stick construction and all that kind of stuff, you’re getting prepared for what? A hurricane that may or may never every come." ’We’re going to have 12 hurricanes next year, we know they’re coming.’
- Coach Nick Saban
by bammer on Jun 11, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well said
i can live with the ruling, but i’m still not happy about this at all. still too much bluster over a minor issue. i’m also alittled upset at the number of wins they’re going to make us vacate. if i remember correctly, didn’t OU have to vacate a season worth of wins a few years back, only to have them reinstated? and this was stemming from the “Rhett Bomar getting paid cash to do nothing except play QB scandal”… which i know is like comparing cheating apples to benign oranges….
welcome to the SEC kiffykins...
by tempebamafan on Jun 11, 2009 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
one of our players got drunk and signed a cocktail napkin at Pat O’Brien’s, a ‘contract’ that would not stand up in a court of law.
Maybe right but it was improper "contact" with an agent, not that he signed a contract.
Even bottom 10% students at TTT law schools know that getting drunk and signing a bar napkin is a contract. See, e.g., Lucy v. Zehmer, 84 S.E.2d 516 (Va. 1954) .
by BufordTJones on Jun 11, 2009 5:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry...
…I was in the bottom 10% at TTTTTTTTT law schools, hence the confusion. See, e.g., Lucy v. Charlie Brown v. football v. gravity (Schulz c. 1959).
by NiceLittleSaturday on Jun 11, 2009 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once again sir, you have made me chucke.
"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken
by Bens4vcobra on Jun 12, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One thing I will comment on
As far as I know, no one has proven any of the players sold any of their books. I am not going to be a homer and say it didn’t happen, but it will not be easy to prove. Who is going to step up and admit they paid an athlete, so that they could get books cheaper than at the book store?
by 2KTrans Am on Jun 13, 2009 1:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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