A penalty determined by the Committee on Infractions shall not be set aside on appeal except on a showing by the appealing party that the penalty is excessive such that it constitutes an abuse of discretion.
The previous is NCAA Bylaw 32.10.4.1, which was changed shortly after Oklahoma had much of its punishment reduced. Previously the Infractions Appeals Committee could set aside a penalty on appeal if they felt like, considering all the evidence and circumstances, that the penalty was excessive or otherwise inappropriate. The new rule is obviously much a much tougher standard for appealing institutions, and presumably the change was brought about because the COI was tired of seeing so many of their penalties being reduced on appeal.
The point of all of this is, while UA is deciding whether or not to appeal (they must file an appeal, if they plan to do so, before June 26th), that it will be very tough for us to have our penalties reduced. You really cannot point to the past successes of Oklahoma and others as hope simply because the standard is much more difficult now. Some may say we have nothing to lose by appealing, and that may be true. To be sure, the appeals committee can vacate and remand the penalty to the COI, so we could theoretically get higher penalties that way, but that's extremely unlikely. The more likely scenario is that we ruffle the NCAA's feathers moving forward, and the possibility of doing that should, and I'm sure will, be considered by UA deciding whether or not to appeal.
At any rate, though, regardless of what UA ultimately chooses to do, it's going to be a very big uphill climb for the Tide here. I certainly do not like the probation or the vacated wins, but realistically it could have been much worse, and even through the crimson glasses I'm afraid it will be hard to make a convincing argument that the COI's penalties constitute an abuse of discretion. We'll see what UA does regarding the appeal, but frankly I do not expect success even if we do choose to appeal.
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Let's just get back
that Cotton Bowl victory so we don’t have to change the t-shirts. so that the t-shirts won’t be wrong for a year until we beat USC in the MNC and get back our previous (current) 31.
Appealing this...
would be a very poor decision. Swallow the penalty (which is less than anyone thought it would be) and move on. Get away from this negative garbage as fast as possible and leave it (hopefully) in the past. The focus and energy from here on should be placed in making sure NO infractions are commited for at least the next ten years, if not ever. Appealing this would only keep the infractions alive and in the media, not to mention UA coming off very smug in the face of light penalties. If it is appealed, it would in my opinion be a sign of very poor leadership and further proof Mal Moore (and possibly others) needs to “step down” and bring new life into the AD role…hello Baltimore…it’s momma calling.
Totally disagree...
If we go down, we should go down fighting. The punishment does NOT fit the crime. There was NO competitive edge. How can you think throwing away THREE football seasons is light? Losing a few scholarships would have been light. Staying on probation for a few more years was a given. How many articles have you read over the last 10 year that didn’t mention us cheating and being on probation? We are Alabama and the media plus rival fans will ALWAYS keep this kind of thing alive in reference to us.
Appealing this will not prohibit us from moving forward and focusing on the upcoming season. I doubt recruits will give this a second thought as far as it weighing in their decision to come to Alabama. Why would it? Most probably think it’s ridiculous for the NCAA to make such a big deal of something like this. It wasn’t cheating in the literal sense of the word. They will still want to play for Coach Saban because they know he is their best chance to be on a National Championship contender and to move on to the NFL. So we’re STILL on probation. If anything, there should be peer pressure within the team to keep things on the straight and narrow.
You had me at "ROLL TIDE"!!!
How can you think throwing away THREE football seasons is light?
I know the record books are technically altered, but I don’t think anyone really views those games as throwaways. The only people that will really view them that way are the people way away in the future that weren’t around when they even happened in the first place. Sure, I don’t want our all-time records tarnished, but it’s pretty much a non-issue for current needs. It’s not like recruits are going to say, "They lost almost all their games over three of the last four years, no way I’m going there.
Everyone still talks about Gene Stallings winning 70 games in 7 years, but technically he didn’t according to an ex post facto ruling.
Losing a few scholarships would have been light.
I feel the need to disagree here. We’re still pretty thin at some positions and losing a few schollies would’ve been dreadful news in that regard (at least to me.) I feel we’re still in a position where the short term is more critical than the long term.
Staying on probation for a few more years was a given.
That’s the part that really concerns me though it was a given.
I'm obviously the BIG picture person...
I don’t live just for this moment. It’s our legacy and it’s important even though it’s past. I just don’t see a big deal in losing a few scholarships with the talent we’ve brought in and are bringing in.
You had me at "ROLL TIDE"!!!
I favor appeal
because the guys who worked and sweated for those victories and didn’t do anything wrong and deserve to keep them. Especially the Cotton Bowl. Their rings are now tarnished.
No way we gained a competitive advantage by having some kid take a few textbooks he wasn’t supposed to get.
And by the way do we think if we play nice with the NCAA they are going to cut us a break next time around. Listen, next time around (hopefully we won’t have a next time) we are going to get hammered if we appeal or don’t appeal this time. The only reason we weren’t hammered now has more to do with the fact the NCAA is going to let USC slide and they knew if they came down hard on Bama they would have to come down hard on USC or face a revolt in the state of Alabama and even national scorn . But don’t kid yourself. Given the right circumstances, the NCAA is still looking to kill Alabama. It just wasn’t the right situation THIS TIME.
I hate the NCAA more than UT & AU combined. At least with UT & AU you got a fighting chance.
You are so right...
We played nice this time by self reporting. This should have been under secondary violations at best. It’s laughable that the NCAA will vacate all the games Reggie Bush played in, even though they should. Talk about competitive edge. What went on at USC is so much worse, there’s no comparison.
You had me at "ROLL TIDE"!!!
I say leave it alone...
one thing I know for sure….the NCAA would not like it if they have to see M. Moore’s mug again….anytime soon! He’s got to go! Correct me if I’m wrong, he’s been a part of three investigations at UA by the NCAA. Uh….nuff said.
"The expectation level at the University of Alabama is high and it should be..What's wrong with people expecting excellence?"
I
am also in favor of appeal regardless of our chances. Its like a criminal trial after you’ve been found guilty, almost always there is an appeal. And why not? Its your right under the law to appeal, so even in the face of overwelming evidence, why wouldn’t exercise every option?
"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken
As much...
…b.s. as it is, I’m not nearly as concerned about these vacated wins as I am about the five flippin’ years we’ve got to worry about one player, coach, administrator, or booster screwing things up for all of us. The NCAA should publish a handbook on the correct ways to administer your program so that, if an individual or two breaks the rules, the whole community doesn’t get punished.
by NiceLittleSaturday on Jun 15, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions
My
dad and I were talking about this yesterday and I came up with the idea of the NCAA putting one of their officers at every D-I school’s athletic dept in the country. He could basically be the “NCAA Czar” at that school, he could hire & fire his own people and he doesn’t work for the school, he is employed by the NCAA. But that would never happen because that make them accountable for the actions of the school, which would be a contradiction.
"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken
Two outcomes...
Either schools would get in SOOO much more trouble for non-issue things with the constant scrutiny, or rouge boosters would pay these people not to talk and we’d be back to the same ol’ system, just with money that would have been going to the schools would now be going to the NCAA Czars.
I bleed crimson and white...I puke Vol puke orange. RTR
What is Bamagrad's take on this?
"When people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears their people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson
I am not chastising opinions...
or maybe I am and dont mean to…but, it is this kind of short sitedness from Bama fans that make me cringe. The idea that somebody owes us something back b/c we are Bama (its not ’74 anymore). Like it or not, the penalties were light compared to what people expected and, quite frankly as we all know when dealing with the NCAA, could have been. And also like it or not, Alabama did break the rules. I agree the whole text book thing has been way over blown and does not equate to cheating, but still, by the book, violations were commited. As I stated before and very correctly put by NiceLittleSaturday, “I’m not nearly as concerned about these vacated wins as I am about the five flippin’ years we’ve got to worry about one player, coach, administrator, or booster screwing things up for all of us.” If that day comes, you will be longing for the days of a few vacated wins. Work on that and not wasted time on appeals that really, “In the big picture” just dont matter. RTR!
I
don’t detect any entitlement attitudes. There certainly have been in the past but not regarding this issue. Bama fans are just a bit sensitive when it comes to the NCAA for obvious reasons, so for some there is going to be an overreaction. There is a segment that thinks this could’ve been handled in house, without the NCAA involved at all. I do agree that the penalties are light comparitively speaking.
"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken
by Bens4vcobra on Jun 16, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Why even play the games...
…if they as you say
"In the big picture" just dont matter
That is a ridiculous statement. It’s no way about entitlement. Yes, violations were committed, but the punishment does NOT fit the crime, no matter how “light” you consider it.
You had me at "ROLL TIDE"!!!
I really want to let this go...
but dang!!! There is nothing at all ridiculous about that statement….what did we win those years?? What championships?? As I remember, most of those years were pathetic from already imposed sanctions. We are not talking about losing the ‘92 championship here or even the ’99 SEC title. UA is going to prolong this to keep a win over “powerhouse” Duke? Hawaii? Whats ridiculous is those who can’t see the forest for the tree’s. Better days are yet to come…focus on that and not screwing up what UA now has in front of them.
I see the forest just fine...
This is the irony of what you say:
what did we win those years?? What championships??
What if we WERE talking about championships? You and many others would have a totally different view if that was the case, but the facts would remain the same – ineligible players played even though we did not know it at the time.
Yes, the goal is to win the SEC and the National Championship, but obviously you can’t do that every year. That does not mean you just give up the games fought and won no matter WHO the opponent was. Is it right to say to those young men who played – “Oh, forget about your years playing at Alabama. Those years didn’t mean anything because you didn’t win us any championships.” No, it is not right. I have some great memories from 2005, but just because 2006 and 2007 were not so hot does not mean I’m going to throw the seasons under the bus.
Appealing will not “screw” up what UA has in front of them. We will still have Coach Saban and top recruiting classes. We will still contend for SEC and National Championships. It is our TRADITION.
You had me at "ROLL TIDE"!!!
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