BCS System: Hatch Sets Hearings on it

by MeanBobMean on Jul 1, 2009 12:17 PM CDT Comment 50 comments

Senator be a smacking on the BCS. I love it. See it here on "The HIll" blog. Said on that site:

The Republican addresses the argument of why Congress is tackling on the BCS at a time when there are other important issues on the table. He says there are "serious questions" surrounding the legality of the system.

"The Sherman Anti Trust Act prohibits contracts, combinations or conspiracies designed to reduce competition," Hatch wrote. "I don't think a more accurate description of what the BCS does exists."

Hatch also goes on to criticize the way teams are awarded money for being a part of the BCS.

Hearings are set for July 7th. See Sports Illustrated story for more details. From that story:

Rep. Joe Barton of Texas, the top Republican on the House Energy and Commerce Committee, has introduced legislation that would prevent the NCAA from calling a game a national championship unless it's the outcome of a playoff. At a May hearing, Barton warned that the legislation would move forward "if we don't see some action in the next two months" from BCS on switching to a playoff system.

FanPosts are just that; posts created by the fans. They are in no way indicative of the opinions of SBN and the authors of Roll Bama Roll.

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wh00t. Dormant Commerce Clause lives!

I just won a t-shirt tearing contest against the Tennessee coaching staff

by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 1, 2009 12:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

What we gotta get. . . .

. . . is the new PAC 10 president to include Utah and BYU in the PAC 12!

They’d be great additions, I hear all this BS about Utah and BYU not being big “draws”. WT(total)F? Utah travels like something else. BYU has got a long and fanatical following. No Way Colorado and Colorado State. Some want Boise St. (that’s a good one, but hmmmm? we need 2 in-state schools like Utah and BYU).

Remember that fateful weekend last year when all the PAC 10 lost to the Mountain West? Shit, put Utah in there- they would have given USC a total run for their money. If we can lose to Oregon State on Sept. 25 2008, we’d sure as hell lose to a great Utah team on Sept. 16, 2008.

Never got to say congrats to you MeanBob on that Sugar Bowl win. (DAMN! FUCK!) Great game, great team!

Comer4tide to Nico2.0: "How come I've never heard of any of your random songs?"
Todd to Comer: "Because if you had, he wouldn't listen to it. BOOM. Roasted."
Nico to Todd: "Shouldn't you be off voguing somewhere?"

by BixBeiderbecke on Jul 1, 2009 1:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks!

Our D I expected, our O moving the ball is what threw me. But I agree with many who say “Alabama was not themselves,” because when we were watchng the teams warmup I said “We came to play, they didn’t, we are in this game.”

I expect that game will be Saban’s impetus to take what many say is a mid tier SEC team this year straight back to Atlanta.

I’m shopping now for a ball cap from Alabama now so I can scream “Roll Tide!” each week as they do it, too.

by MeanBobMean on Jul 1, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hell yeah buddy!

That’s the spirit. The Bama fans are the best on the planet! (Mom’s from Arkansas, big-time Bear idolizer- uncle J.O. of mine schooled me proper on the Tide as a kid)

by BixBeiderbecke on Jul 1, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey MeanBob-

Go here! It’s the best place for your Bama-gear! Great prices, some on total discount from time to time- and IT BENEFITS the campus bookstore/supply store! (keeping those purchases in state, on campus, in the employees pocket-books. at least and HOPE and THINK?)

by BixBeiderbecke on Jul 1, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

We love ya, Bob, but

Alabama never has nor never will be a ‘mid-tier’ team.

;)

"When people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears their people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

by BamaReturns07 on Jul 1, 2009 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly!

That is why I said “many say” but those many are not the few true who know the tenor of this team, correct?

;-)

by MeanBobMean on Jul 1, 2009 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Devil's Advocate:

If BYU and Utah abandoned the MWC for the PAC10 (or any other BCS conference) wouldn’t that be admitting that the MW is not good enough for them?

And wouldn’t that destroy their present argument that they should seriously be considered a BCS contender by going undefeated in their former weakling conference?

by yellowhammer on Jul 2, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ya know whats crazy..

If Utah entered the Pac-10…they could easily be the 2nd to 3rd best team in that league! RIGHT NOW!

by bammer on Jul 2, 2009 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

easily....

And give Telford another hard-fought loss and moral victory to justify his salary.

I just won a t-shirt tearing contest against the Tennessee coaching staff

by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 2, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i wonder where they would rank

in the SEC…since they just beat us, im thinking 4th or 5th…maybe.

by bammer on Jul 2, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

year-in and out?

Below FL, LSU, AL…On par with UGA and (depending on the year) AU and UT. 4th or 5th sounds right…Put em in the East and they’re 2nd. In the West, T-2nd or 3rd.

I just won a t-shirt tearing contest against the Tennessee coaching staff

by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 2, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

They may only be the 3rd

best team in their own conference right now.

by yellowhammer on Jul 2, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

good point.

TCU and BYU look to be better.

by bammer on Jul 2, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's a rebuilding year for the Utes

But I, for one, am not on the TCU train.

I just won a t-shirt tearing contest against the Tennessee coaching staff

by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 4, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's the rumor.

by MeanBobMean on Jul 7, 2009 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I say scratch the whole thing...

and just go back to the old Bowl System. That way 3 teams can claim NCs and everyone will be happy.

I'm in no condition to drive...wait! I shouldn't listen to myself, I'm drunk.

by That Other Dave on Jul 1, 2009 1:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

or...

…dismantle the BCS, dissolve the NCAA, and let CNS work his magic (like he’s not going to, anyway).

by NiceLittleSaturday on Jul 1, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I may be wrong here, but didn't the Old Bowl Alliance

ask permission in 1992 to get Miami, as the Big East champ, to break its Orange Bowl tie and come play the #2 team in the Sugar Bowl? As for the championship game, with the exception of the terribly flawed computers, isn’t this the same?

I just won a t-shirt tearing contest against the Tennessee coaching staff

by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 2, 2009 7:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I

don’t remember but I agree with you, as long as you have the bowls and conference tie-ins it will be a flawed system. Computers or not.

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on Jul 2, 2009 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

It wasn’t perfect, but the top 5 teams going into the bowls still had a shot to be #1 in the final poll.

by yellowhammer on Jul 2, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yea!

another shining example of liberal republicans and the government trying to control everything.

I don’t like the BCS, but I don’t like the gov’t intervening either. I guess you could make the case of most schools being public institutions, but that’s pretty dicey when you start talking about merchandising, fund raising, boosters, etc. etc. etc.

"When people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears their people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

by BamaReturns07 on Jul 1, 2009 3:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Haha...

…you just called Orrin Hatch ‘liberal’. Hahahahahaha….

by NiceLittleSaturday on Jul 1, 2009 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not specifically him

but possibly these actions trend that way. Looking at it from a monopolistic point of view, I see the reasoning to a degree. I still don’t like it, even as much as I hate the BCS system.

"When people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears their people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

by BamaReturns07 on Jul 2, 2009 6:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What NLS said.

BWHAHAAHAHAHAHA

I just won a t-shirt tearing contest against the Tennessee coaching staff

by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 2, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Same goes

for the Gov stepping in on steroids in baseball…

by bammer on Jul 2, 2009 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm for anything that

lessens the power of the NCAA. They think they are above the law and in fact they make their own law. I know our country is in a mess, but we aren’t going to fix the country anytime soon. Maybe we can fix the BCS.

I hate the NCAA more than UT & AU combined. At least with UT & AU you got a fighting chance.

by 5026 on Jul 1, 2009 4:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

They think they are above the law and in fact they make their own law.

Yes but they have the right to make their own rules. Participation isn’t mandatory. No rights are being violated here.

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on Jul 1, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I still think

that secert closed hearings that involve public institutions are wrong. True the Universities do join the NCAA voluntarily, but do they really have much of a choice? The NCAA has a virtual monoploy on a multi billion dollar industry that impacts most every institution of higher learning in the nation.

And, when you appear before the NCAA you seem to lose some of the rights you have as Americans. Like the right to face your accuser, the presumption of innocence, a right to a trial by a jury of non biased peers and a speedy trial. If the NCAA can mandate fines, deny teams the ability to play games, bar teams from TV, take away a players elibilty etc. then I think they should do so under the laws of the United States.

If I voluntarily take a job with a company that company still has to follow the laws of the land in regards to me. In other words I don’t lose my rights when I go to work. Just because schools join the NCAA I do not think they should give up their rights.

I hate the NCAA more than UT & AU combined. At least with UT & AU you got a fighting chance.

by 5026 on Jul 1, 2009 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let me explain.....

The NCAA has to follow the law but there are no constitutional due process guarantees for members of private institutions. Schools don’t give up any such rights when they join the NCAA because those rights you are talking about only apply against the government. Freedom of contract is also part of being an American. If every private member institution like they NCAA had to go through the same hurdles our courts go through to enforce its rules, those institutions would be cease to function with any level of efficiency and our country would suck.

And when you go to work, you can be fired or disciplined by your employer without being able face your accuser, have a presumption of innocence, a trial by jury, etc. Your rights against your employer are those granted by your employment contract and a few state and federal statutes, not the Constitution.

by CJackson on Jul 1, 2009 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bingo

think about your employer, he/she can make rules about conduct (things you can or can’t say & do), dress code, drug policy etc… following these basic rules are part of the terms of your employment. The government owes you due process, constitutional rights. A sports league or organization doesn’t.

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on Jul 2, 2009 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You are right.

But you can still sue if treated unfairly. Technically you can still sue the NCAA, it just doesn’t seem to work.

I hate the NCAA more than UT & AU combined. At least with UT & AU you got a fighting chance.

by 5026 on Jul 3, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You

can sue anybody except the federal government for just about any reason.

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on Jul 6, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's...

…libel! I’m gonna sue you for that….

by NiceLittleSaturday on Jul 6, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am not a contract lawyer.

Here is my question though: If an established contract has a clause which allows entry into said contract based on the performance of the prospective entrant (conference), how does it fall under anti-trust laws?

Obviously if the performance requirements are too stringent that would be an issue. I have read before, but cannot find now, the entrance criterion. It is something on the order of .500 conference performance over the 3 year evaluation period. The current evaluation period ends in 2011.

If that is the case schools such as Utah, TCU, Boise State, and BYU (listed last just for you MBM) are literally held hostage by the lackluster performance of their fellow conference members, not the BCS monster.

As recent at 2003 there has been a split championship, LSU as BCS and USC for the AP poll. If the NCAA only recognizes the BCS winner as the national champion for the NCAA records, then I totally empathize with the non-automatic bid conferences. However, if a split championship is documented as such in the official record, my response changes to impress the voters, and you get the recognition you deserve.

I want to see the most fair and equitable system available, but with the FBS having 120 teams, someone will be left out, even deserving teams. I am staring directly at the 11-5 2008 NE Patriots who didnt make the playoffs, but 8-8 San Diego does due to a week division.

Offense sells tickets. Defense wins games. - Paul W. "Bear" Bryant

by TheRedTideConsumes on Jul 1, 2009 4:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

spelling fail....weak...

Offense sells tickets. Defense wins games. - Paul W. "Bear" Bryant

by TheRedTideConsumes on Jul 1, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There are three criteria that determine which conferences get an automatic bid.

- The BCS score of the highest rated team in the final BCS standings (pre-bowls).
- The number of teams in the final Top 25 of the BCS standings (pre-bowls).
- The final computer average for each team in the conference (pre-bowls), highest and lowest scores dropped.

The conferences will be evaluated from 2008-2011 to determine which conferences will get automatic bids in 2012 and 2013. Basically, a conference needs to average 2-3 teams in the final Top 25, one Top 10 team, and have an average team ranking in the top quartile of the NCAA.

2008 was the first season in the history of the BCS in which a non-BCS conference was strong enough to earn the necessary .500 score. If auto-bids were decided solely based on 2008, the MWC would get one and the PAC-10 would not. Funnily enough, discounting USC the PAC-10 played at MAC levels last year. Think about that.

by rugman11 on Jul 1, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

so...

…the MWC’s argument is based off of 1 year worth of data scatter.

That is some pretty pathetic grounds for inquiry.

Sounds more like some current conferences are in need of shuffling ,not more BCS eligible conferences.

Offense sells tickets. Defense wins games. - Paul W. "Bear" Bryant

by TheRedTideConsumes on Jul 1, 2009 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually

Boise St. has the best chance to crack the top10 and make a run for it. They are starting out at #14 (possibly) and have the biggest joke of a schedule as i have ever seen. If they go undefeated (if they don’t we should never mention their name in this context ever again) they they will be playing for a BCS bowl.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/teams/schedule?teamId=68

Utah might be starting out around #23 but has a much harder schedule with Louisville, Oregon, TCU and BYU on their slate.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/teams/schedule?teamId=254

BYU seems to have the hardest road to haul due to scheduling Oklahoma to start off the season. They’ll have one of the best offenses in the country and will need every bit of it to make it unscathed..

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/teams/schedule?teamId=252

IMO…the MWC + Boise won’t make as big of a stir this year…I think they are trying (all besides Boise) to schedule tougher games but in the end their conference games are just too weak…

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4270045

by bammer on Jul 2, 2009 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

oh

i got those preseason numbers off a mock top 25…

by bammer on Jul 2, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

'Bout Right

I want Oregon to paste Boise State. Then for us to beat the hell outta them at their place.

That would help some.

by MeanBobMean on Jul 2, 2009 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No

There’s been a controversy many year in the BCS system, not just last year. It wasn’t “Utah fans” that were as upset as college football fanms across the US.

Remember Nebraska getting crushed by Colorado by 30 points in the Big 12 game and playing for the title against Miami? When Oregon was ranked number 2 and won the Pac Ten with a 10-1 record and subsequently crushed the same Colorado team that had crushed Nebraska?

No playoff = no true national champion, period. People can claim anything they want, some years we can look at a team and say “Yeah, that was the best team.” Under the BCS? I aint so sure. I mean, if it was only “one year” of data that was off, the BCS wouldn’t have changed their formula every year to quiet criticism.

I’m perfectly happy as a Utah fan with last year’s outcome, that was the system that existed, that doesn’t mean we can’t have a fairer and better system.

As parity reaches across college football more each year it will create a situation where the BCS is untenable. The BCS is simply the last gasp of the old elites to keep power, the last of the insider’s game.

As we celebrate our nation’s birth, tell me, what about a good old boy’s gaming the system to maintain power and resources is American to you?

by MeanBobMean on Jul 2, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wish

there was a playoff system but i believe the BCS is much better than the system we had before it. 15 years ago..Utah wouldn’t have sniffed the Sugar Bowl. Now, if you guys stay competitive, you will have a shot every year.

As much as people don’t like it, you have to prove your way into the elite college football status. Teams like BYU, Utah, Boise St., TCU etc are going to have to stay on top their game for at least 5 years for you guys to make a legitimate push. Is that fair? Well..yeah. Mosst of the teams in BCS conferences have been playing at an elite level for nearly 75 years and some more than that. Its unfortunate but you cant go 9-4 in the midmajors and expect an automatic bid.

You can’t play teams like Wyoming, Colorado State, UNLV, San Diego St, Utah St., and expect to be respected. In your defense the MWC plays a much tougher OOC schedule than most mid majors. So i have much more respect for you than a Boise St. who plays only one team from a BCS conference this year and that team is from the Pac-10..

I think if the midmajors consolidated all the best teams into one conference and added a few others to help pad the stats, then you might have a chance to get to that elusive automatic bid….but you’d stil have to schedule the big boys and win to get the respect you deserve.

by bammer on Jul 2, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No doubt

Some of them tried to make a better mousetrap, and they’ve been somewhat sensitive to criticism (arguably becaus ewhen they went into it they themselves said “this is going to look an awful lot like a monopoly”). But they failed and it is time to move on or go back to what we had.

But the BCS exists because of “old glory days” tie ins to Bowls and a few conferences syaing "we have to remain the top tier, that cannot be allowed to change. What is American about that? There is zero reason you can’t have the Bowls remain, just use them as the format for the playoff. They already are exalting one bowl over the others each year as “the championship” game.

I also don’t mind the regular season being 10-11 games (with no twelth—SEC placed 3-5 teams in the playoffs they’d not care so much about a playoff championship game) so we can have a myriad of bowls and playoff games. And, there is no reason a conference could not opt out of the playoff system voluntarily and schedule more games for themselves. If the SEC and Pac-10 wanted ot say “sorry, we’re not interested” they could.

First round games could be at home for the top 8 teams, second round at bowls, and so on. They wanted to do it? They could.

My problem is the BCS system has weighte dit towards a few, and that is what really eats away at most folks. They are guaranteeing that no one outside a very few conferences, one of which now is marginal, will ever, that’s ever, be capable of being a champion.

It’s a fait accompli and money sits at the heart of it. These same conferences that manipulate the system ot garner cash? they’d crap bricks if you said “Pay the players then.”

I am not for paying players, just saying: if we’re about cash, hone up to it. Hell I don’t care what a person believes, just be honest about it and consistent in your application of/adfherence to your belief system.

by MeanBobMean on Jul 2, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually...

…this is all very American. It’s not democratic, or even fair…but very American.

by NiceLittleSaturday on Jul 2, 2009 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

A ha!

A cynic!

;-)

Happy Fourth!

by MeanBobMean on Jul 4, 2009 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

well.....

I’m all for it!!! Seems the BCS (BullCrapSystem) is outta wack! You mean to tell me that with all the experts in football (arm chair quarterbacks), we can’t come up with a better system? Hell…I say take the top 8 teams in the land…after the regular season is finished and pit the 1 vs 8 team so on and so forth…play in bowl games with (2) 20 minute quarters…and end up playing a NCG under (4) 15 min.quarters. Crown the Nat’l Champ. Oh…BTW use SEC Officials for ALL the games! Ha!

"The expectation level at the University of Alabama is high and it should be..What's wrong with people expecting excellence?"

by TideNTrue on Jul 2, 2009 7:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs