If We Have to Give One BCS Conference the Boot...
by Nico2.0 on Feb 16, 2010 8:00 AM CST
in Football
33 comments
In all of the recent talk about the Pac 10 expanding and the Big 10 expanding, it seem as if the talk of the Mountain West potentially getting an automatic BCS bid has gotten lost in the shuffle. Before all of the talk of the expansion of current BCS conferences, some people seemed to think the Mountain West was going to expand to 12 teams, with Boise State being the team that really sweetened the deal.
The line of thinking is that the MWC goes to the two division format and that it would push them into automatic bid territory given the strength of Utah, BYU, TCU and Boise State. Personally, I'd have no problem with that. Utah and Boise State have proven they can win the big game and BYU and TCU are certainly no pushovers and both have some pretty solid wins over BCS competition in the last few years.
Mountain West teams like Utah and BYU are among those in discussion to make the leap to the Pac 10, but it's all just speculation at this point. Let's just pretend for a minute that the Big 10 and Pac 10 aren't expanding anytime soon. While I think the BCS would be fine with seven automatic bids and three at large spots, plenty of people think one of the current six BCS conferences will have to go on the chopping block in order for the Mountain West to get their shot at an automataic qualifier. It seems as if there is nearly universal accord on which conference should get axed...and that's the Big East. I can't really figure out why though. As a conference, they've gone 6-6 in BCS Bowls with the following track record:
Because of conference realignments, five out of the Big East's twelve BCS appearances were from teams that are no longer in the conference (Miami and Virginia Tech.) When you subtract those five appearances, the Big East goes from having a 6-6 (.500) record to having a 3-4 (.429) record. Not stellar by any means, but just one win below .500.
Compare that to the ACC. In twelve appearances, they've managed a 2-10 record. Let that sink in for a minute. 2-10 (.167). Even if you remove five of the Big East's BCS appearances because of those teams no longer being in the conference, they still have more wins in seven attempts than the ACC does in twelve attempts. Here are the appearances of ACC teams in BCS Bowls
Do people overlook the horrible performance of ACC teams because of the presence of former powerhouses Florida State and Miami? Or maybe because the names Georgia Tech and Virginia Tech carry more recent historical weight than those of many Big East teams?
The more I look at it, it seems preposterous to me that many want to deny the potentially expanded MWC an automatic bid when one of the current BCS conferences is performing incredibly poorly in the post season when competing against the best college football has to offer. The MWC and WAC are a combined 4-2 in BCS bowls (two more wins than the ACC in six less attempts) and considering the MWC and WAC teams were pitted against one another this year, the statistic is a bit skewed for the non-automatic qualifiers.
The way I see it, expand the BCS to seven conferences getting automatic bids or if you have to kick out one of the current participants, don't kick out the one that wins half the time, give the boot to the perennial underachievers.
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Option not on the poll...
…. six top conference champs from pool of 7 conferences.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com
Definte "top?"
Win/Loss? Polls? Mythical computer formula?
by Bama philosophe on Feb 16, 2010 7:22 PM CST up reply actions
I think the problem with mandating that a conference be pulled in order to add a new one
is that conference quality changes significantly from season to season. The PAC-10 in 2008 was the worst of the major conferences (behind even the MWC). This was mostly thanks the Washington and Wazzu combining to win 2 games, one a Wazzu win over Washington. In 2009 the PAC-10 became the second best conference, behind only the SEC.
According to the BCS formula, the MWC was the 5th best conference in 2008 but didn’t even qualify as a BCS caliber conference in 2009 (barely). That’s why I actually like the BCS system, where it takes the last four years into account and bases its decision not on head-to-head comparisons, but based on a certain standard for all potential BCS conferences.
I so want the anti-trust suit to happen...
I am pulling for an absolutely Lokean concoction of chaos, bitching, surly divisions within states and amongst them. An anti-trust suit would be about the most fun 3-6 years of court-watching you could have. America isn’t one country to begin with; it’s about seven or eight culturally/linguistically/geopolitical regions; a great big ole’ multi-million dollar lawsuit would exploit all of those fault lines.
Bring on the madness.
"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"
by Stuck in the Plains on Feb 16, 2010 10:12 AM CST reply actions
But the result would likely be a 96 team playoff in the name of "fairness".
Beat Auburn? CHECK. 12-0 regular season? CHECK. Beat the #1 Gators for the SECCG? CHECK. Ingram wins the Heisman? CHECK. Tide defeats the Longhorns for the BCS Championship? CHECK!
No, the result would be
the Mid-Majors would spend tens of millions on litigation, and lose.
Here, we’re not dealing with an upstart, parallel league as in the challenges to baseball, or the individual contract issues that plagued the league earlier.
This is closer to, but the exactly opposite, of the NFL’s case…where the league claims it is 32 teams, and not an entity. The NCAA is comprised solely of voluntary member institutions, and the issue now is access to/allotment of dollars within the system. So, we’re pretty much left with torturing the shit out of the statutory scheme and/or invoking constitutional protections. And, the first is sophistry and bullshit. The second fails b/c they don’t have an equal protection leg to stand on, nor is there a right at issue here that is cognizable for those purposes.
Equity and performance on the field can only take you so far, and that’s the point of the 4 year plan.
The best scenario is to disentangle the BCS from the NCAA, then try to jackhammer the BCS under antitrust. Still, I don’t see that happening either.
Thus, we’re right back where we started from…only with people a lot more grumpy.
Chaos! Bring it!
"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"
by Stuck in the Plains on Feb 16, 2010 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
The BCS is already disentangled from the NCAA, as the NCAA has nothing to do with it. The folks in Indianapolis do not sponsor any bowl games, and they are not a party to the BCS contracts.
That’s what makes football a completely different animal from basketball. The basketball tournaments are guided by the collective will of all 320+ teams in Div. I since they all have an equal say with the NCAA. With the BCS contracts, the powerful schools can actually wield more power since the size of someone’s voice is proportional to the size of its budget.
Team Speed Kills
SBNation's SEC Blog
You're going to have a bitch of time though
with the contract issue. MLB’s problems were in trying to crush a parallel league, and the NFL was shutting out competing licensers of products. Not with the addition/removal of teams.
That’s where the anti-trust comes in; just don’t see how it comes into an exclusive, quantifiable, voluntary association where the parties and members are free to contract with whom they will.
"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"
by Stuck in the Plains on Feb 16, 2010 1:16 PM CST up reply actions
Partially true, but not entirely...
The NCAA still has jurisdiction there. They can very easily kill the BCS if they want to, simply by the members voting to disallow member institutions from participating in bowl games.
I'm wrong all the time.
My fingers were slick with sarcasm as I typed my earlier response...
but apparently none of it made it through the interwebs. lol
Beat Auburn? CHECK. 12-0 regular season? CHECK. Beat the #1 Gators for the SECCG? CHECK. Ingram wins the Heisman? CHECK. Tide defeats the Longhorns for the BCS Championship? CHECK!
Would you like me to mail you some tissue?
I really blame this whole horseshit on two things.
1. Joe Barton (PsychoWeasel -TX)
2. Utah’s disproportionate political influence. 13-0 Utah gets hosed, then you best believe one of the most powerful congressional contingencies, in America’s fastest growing state, will be grumpy.
Neither are legitimate, FWIW.
"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"
by Stuck in the Plains on Feb 16, 2010 4:10 PM CST up reply actions
All that "disproportionate political influence" is earned!
It’s called “street cred” in the music biz…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XND3Naa6N5o
Beat Auburn? CHECK. 12-0 regular season? CHECK. Beat the #1 Gators for the SECCG? CHECK. Ingram wins the Heisman? CHECK. Tide defeats the Longhorns for the BCS Championship? CHECK!
...forgot the *sarcasm* again.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Beat Auburn? CHECK. 12-0 regular season? CHECK. Beat the #1 Gators for the SECCG? CHECK. Ingram wins the Heisman? CHECK. Tide defeats the Longhorns for the BCS Championship? CHECK!
He may suck at running a Judiciary Committee
but, damn, he knows him some festival of light!
"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"
by Stuck in the Plains on Feb 16, 2010 6:47 PM CST up reply actions
Forget the BCS............
I’d rather see the top 16 teams in a playoff the way Div 2 does it. But then, I pray for world peace which would come soon than a playoff in Div 1
I don't mind bad news, and I don't mind good news, but I can't stand surprises! Coach Nick Saban
BTW: This thread is nerd pr0n, and I approve.
"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"
by Stuck in the Plains on Feb 16, 2010 1:26 PM CST reply actions
It would be foolish...
…to introduce a playoff into college football as it is. College football as it is is a good thing. It’s the best thing going in college or professional athletics. Every playoff proposal I’ve heard introduces new problems and new arguments and diminishes the excellent product we now have.
However, for those of you who are dead set on a playoff system for college football, I could support it if we could just reduce the number of FBS schools to 96, dissolve three of the current conferences and fill the remaining eight conferences with 12 teams each, playing in two divisions, with the divisional winners playing in a conference championship game. Then, only conference champions meet in a playoff.
Eight teams. Eight champions. One ultimate winner.
This would be incredibly difficult to achieve, but it would be a fair way of instituting a playoff…if that’s what you really want. I’m pretty happy with the way things are. I like that teams like USC have to pay a price when they don’t show up against teams like Oregon State and Stanford. I like that SEC champions normally get rewarded for winning their conference championship games. I like that every game matters.
But if you want to sign on to the 96 team, eight 12-team conference playoff idea, here’s a preliminary list of teams I would not object to omitting from the new FBS:
Duke, Baylor, Indiana, Northwestern, Rice, Akron, Ball State, Bowling Green, Buffalo, Central Michigan, Eastern Michigan, Kent State, Northern Illinois, Ohio, Temple, Toledo, Western Michigan, Air Force, New Mexico, UNLV, Wyoming, Arkansas State, FIU, Florida Atlantic, Louisiana-Lafayette, Louisiana-Monroe, Middle Tennessee, North Texas, Troy, Western Kentucky, Idaho, Nevada, New Mexico State, San Jose State, Utah State, Army, Navy.
You may have noticed that I’ve offered up most of the Mid-American, Sun Belt, and WAC teams, so those three conferences could become FCS conferences and their best teams could realign into the remaining eight conferences.
You see a couple of teams you want to keep? OK. There are at least a dozen who could stay and get us to 96. That way, every team has a shot to win its conference, and every conference champion has a shot to win it all.
I’m not sure whether I would like it better than what we have now, but I love it compared to every other playoff proposal I’ve heard.
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Feb 16, 2010 4:34 PM CST reply actions
I'm very opposed...
…to the two division, mandatory conference championship game system. Hate it hate it hate it. I’m all about the round robin. You want to make every game count? Play 11 conference games and one non-conference game. To me the biggest farce is not playing every team in your conference.
I wouldn’t mind some teams getting shaved off seeing as D1 is too big to manage. Perhaps we could get some promotion/relegation scheme to give the bottom feeders incentive to keep fighting and not just be happy to rake in cash and then the best FCS schools could work their way up the ranks.
RollBamaRoll.com - Also check out my music blog: Hear the World
The problem is
that destroys the homecoming system/intersectional rivalries in the same season, unless you want every team to play a 12 game A+ SOS a la NCAAF 2010.
"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"
by Stuck in the Plains on Feb 16, 2010 6:23 PM CST up reply actions
That's why I advocate cutting conference sizes...
Maybe have them at 11 teams. Play 10 conference games (5 home and 5 away) and then do what you will with your two non-conference games.
RollBamaRoll.com - Also check out my music blog: Hear the World
Well, I personally think
we should have never gone to a 12 game skeddie.
"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"
by Stuck in the Plains on Feb 17, 2010 7:07 PM CST up reply actions
I've said this before...
…but the main reason I like the conference championship game is because without it you could end the season with a three-way tie to unscramble using some other off-the-field method. Without it in 2009, Florida likely plays Texas for the national title while we go play Cincy in the Sugar. I know it stinks when a 4-loss team wins its conference, but if their opponent can’t close the deal, then they didn’t deserve to play with the big boys anyway.
Of course, what I’m proposing has little chance of happening, and I’m still skeptical of messing with what is clearly a good thing as it is.
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Feb 16, 2010 9:44 PM CST up reply actions
It's not an off the field method if it's a reflection...
…of on the field results.
Conference championship games allow for 7-5 Buffalo to be champion over 12-0 Ball State When Ball State beat all four or five common opponents. Conference championship games allow for the theoretical possibility of having a team with a losing record be champion over a 12-1 team. We shouldn’t even entertain a system where that could happen no mattter how unlikely.
RollBamaRoll.com - Also check out my music blog: Hear the World
That doesn't even take into account...
…the 2008 Big XII South scenario. Three way tie there. How do you settle that “on the the field?”
RollBamaRoll.com - Also check out my music blog: Hear the World
OK...
…so how would you resolve the three-way tie without the conference game? What’s the fair way to resolve that issue?
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Feb 19, 2010 9:28 PM CST up reply actions
And, while it broke nicely for us this year...
Did we really need to play hapless Vandy? A 8-5 UGA team? to determine that we were the best?
Our corpus was:
West: 10-3 LSU, 9-4 Ole Miss, 8-5 Arkie, 8-5 Auburn, 5-7 MSU
East: 13-1 UF, 7-6 SoCar, 7-6 UK, 7-6 UT
The SECCG usually gets it right. In my lifetime, I can only think of TWO times that the winner of that game WASN’T the best team (or at least a wash).
2001: LSU bites UT big-time
2005: UGA stomps LSU
In other words, in 18 years, we’ve gotten it right, on the field, 16 times. It just works.
"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"
by Stuck in the Plains on Feb 17, 2010 3:35 PM CST up reply actions
Still, in college football
16 out of 18 is pretty damned good, man. That’s better than OU’s performance in BCS games where they were CLEARLY the better team, for instance.
"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"
by Stuck in the Plains on Feb 17, 2010 7:06 PM CST up reply actions
And, any system where pollsters hold sway
or any poll of any kind exists, there will be doubt. Remember ’66?
"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"
by Stuck in the Plains on Feb 17, 2010 7:07 PM CST up reply actions
ACC proves you can't just build a made for TV conference
College football makes a lot of money (in TV ratings and attendance) because people care. They care because of the history and tradition of the programs and the regional rivalries. Who cares about watching Miami play Wake Forest or FSU play Boston College on TV? Sure, there is some initial curiosity but in general it will wear off. Moving Texas to the Big Ten is the same thing — who wants to watch Texas play Illinois or Purdue every year? Its too far for the fans to travel so attendance will dwindle over time You can only stretch these conferences so far.
Seriously, if Texas moved to the BXI
it would be a one-game season: UT v. OSU.
Everything else would be fighting over crappy Midwestern knic-knac trophies.
"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"
by Stuck in the Plains on Feb 17, 2010 7:13 PM CST up reply actions
You think?
Michigan State, Michigan, Penn State and Wisconsin might argue the point. Besides, the Texas legislature ain’t gonna let it happen anyway.
The hush hush talk is of a super conference – Texas, OU, Ohio State, LSU, USC, Alabama, Notre Dame and Georgia.
The TV hounds will fall over themselves for this one.
"Stats are for losers - I like winning games!!" Will Muschamp
by littlelonghorngirl on Feb 28, 2010 7:56 PM CST reply actions
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