Pac-10 and Big 10 Expansion is coming soon..Like it or not...
by bammer on Feb 9, 2010 5:16 PM CST
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Everything I've read up to this point about specifically the Pac-10 expanding to 12 teams has always been "Its not going to happen". Their elitist mentality combined with their love of the Rose Bowl has always seemed too large to over come for there to be any hope of expansion. But now you have this.
SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- Pac-10 commissioner Larry Scott says that if the conference is going to expand, a decision will likely be made in the next year.
[...]
Scott said it made sense to have a decision about expansion before starting to negotiate new television deals that expire following the 2011-12 academic year.Scott says "serious evaluation" of the topic will go on in the next six to 12 months. He said the primary factor in the decision will be finding schools that fit into the conference culturally and academically and determining whether the benefits of adding extra teams outweigh the costs.
Call me crazy or call me an idiot, but i don't believe I've ever heard the Pac-10 talk about expanding without hearing them immediately squashing the notion at the same time. With rumors the Big televen might be expanding and add to that the SEC completely dominating the NC game 4 years in a row, and you have the Pac-10 painted into a proverbial corner. If they stick to their guns, they might find themselves behind the times (if that hasn't already happened). Now I'm not saying this a done deal. Of course the Pac-10 commish left plenty wiggle room if he needs to back track. But if they (the Pac-10) aren't seriously considering expanding, why even leave the door open for speculation? Why not just continue their "When hell freezes over" mindset? The only logical explanation is that they see the end of the tunnel and all signs point to 12 teams...
I know Nico will be upset cause he loves the round robin Pac-10 conference games. But Pete should be more than happy cause with the final big 2 conferences moving towards 12 teams, the chances of a playoff coming gets even larger...
Question is..Who does the Pac- 10 pick up? I do think that if the Big 11 picks up a team, it will be either Missouri or Pitt. If Missouri leaves the Big 12, they will pick up TCU, and the Pac-10 goes with Utah and BYU. If the Big 11 goes with Pitt, the Pac 10 still goes with Utah and BYU and leaves both TCU and Boise left out in the cold.
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Well
Like you said, this is far from a deal. But since we’re speculating, I’d say that I could definitely see a couple mid-majors getting conference “upgrades.” From what I know about the Boise State mindset, though, they seem to love the role as a sort of “mid-major icon” (even though I doubt many fans really like the term mid-major). Of course, a lot of these issues probably come down to one thing above all. $$$
Boise's biggest problem
is going to be generating enough revenue to fit into the Pac-10 mold. They have grown big time over the last few years but Utah (basketball) and BYU (football) are years adhead of them.
Plus the Pac-10 is all about academics. Im not sure which of the three fit that better.
Lane Kiffin took the meaning of "Volunteer" WAY too seriously....
Academics...academics....academics.
The same reason why ISU wouldn’t get an invite to the BXI
"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"
by Stuck in the Plains on Feb 10, 2010 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
Academics or no academics,
I would not want ISU in my conference
by billycthulhu on Feb 10, 2010 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
Pac- 10
was Pac-8 for a long time until they got Ariz. and Ariz. St. So I think they are open to expand again. Plus I think they are going to have to expand for $ reasons. They will pick up Utah for sure. BYU would seem like the other team to take. Both schools are more than football. I’ve never heard of Boise having anything more than FB.
As far as the Big 10- I wish they would force ND to get in with them. Tell them to join the Big 10 or no more BCS for you. See what they do then.
Missouri has been in the Big 12, former Big 8, for a long time. Not so sure they would quickly jump.
Actually, if UK jumped to the Big 10 than we could get FSU which would be good by me. If Missouri jumps, Arky might jump to the 12 and we could still get FSU.
I’m not that worried about gettingTCU or Boise into major conferences. They have good teams now but I don’t know if in the long run they will be that good. I can promise you if TCU was in the Big 12 they would be no better than #6 or #7 each year. Plus, Boise sould be required to pull up the smurf turf if they want to play in the PAC-10.
I hate the NCAA more than UT & AU combined. At least with UT & AU you got a fighting chance.
Utah and BYU
Not only are they rivals but they fit the “pod” type system the Pac10 likes to have with their teams traveling in the same area for a week to face the two teams. It works out rather well, IMO.
Of all the talk out here in Phoenix, the consensus is these two teams. At no time does any serious sports fan in this area consider Boise St a good fit for the Pac10.
It's not what you've done, but what you are doing that matters.
by AlabamaJammer on Feb 9, 2010 7:46 PM CST up reply actions
I dont think this would have any effect on the SEC...
,but if it did and Arkansas were to leave. I would want Georgia tech, I mean “send the yellow jackets to a watery grave” in our fight song would make more sense if we actually played them. I don’t give a damn about FSU though.
My Mama says that alligators are ornery because they got all them teeth and no toothbrush.
by J.JACOBS4PRES on Feb 10, 2010 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
yeah..FSU would be a bad fit for the SEC...
Ga Tech or even NC seem to fit the SEC mold better…..
Lane Kiffin took the meaning of "Volunteer" WAY too seriously....
Who moves to the SEC West then?
Vandy? Kentucky?
i want vandy..
1 guaranteed win a year sounds good to me..
Lane Kiffin took the meaning of "Volunteer" WAY too seriously....
Clemson.
Auburn needs another retarded cousin.
"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"
by Stuck in the Plains on Feb 10, 2010 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
Clemson is a name that is
constantly popping up…I personally don’t want another team with Orange in the SEC…I think we have enough of that to last us a life time..
Lane Kiffin took the meaning of "Volunteer" WAY too seriously....
It's that thow'up orange.
"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"
by Stuck in the Plains on Feb 10, 2010 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
i wanna ask that guy…Is there actually an Orange you CAN sit wit?
Lane Kiffin took the meaning of "Volunteer" WAY too seriously....
I don't know about him
I think the Texas burnt orange is fine. That’s about all I can think of though
by billycthulhu on Feb 10, 2010 2:13 PM CST up reply actions
Burnt orange...
…is the only acceptable orange, screw FSU and Clemson, and Kentucky is not leaving the SEC.
If Arky and/or SC leaves, we’re taking back Georgia Tech and/or Tulane (they’re both former members in fertile recruiting ground, they would both cause headaches for at least two of our current conference rivals, and I want an excuse to go party in New Orleans on an annual basis).
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Feb 10, 2010 3:02 PM CST up reply actions
wow...
An Alabama fan saying he likes any type of orange moves him/her one step closer to being a _ fan..just sayin
Lane Kiffin took the meaning of "Volunteer" WAY too seriously....
No, no, no...
…I don’t mean the color ‘burnt orange’…I mean orange, burnt….
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Feb 10, 2010 4:43 PM CST up reply actions
Definitely need to set up a meeting with he and Ricky
"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"
by Stuck in the Plains on Feb 10, 2010 4:57 PM CST up reply actions
My girlfriend referenced that bit of YouTube awesomeness.
Made me so proud.
RollBamaRoll.com - Also check out my music blog: Hear the World
You have a girlfriend?
Makes us so proud.
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Feb 10, 2010 3:56 PM CST up reply actions
You just drop in
to throw molotov cocktails, don’t you?
"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"
by Stuck in the Plains on Feb 10, 2010 4:33 PM CST up reply actions
Not just....
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Feb 10, 2010 4:44 PM CST up reply actions
I've had some time to think about this and I think I've got it figured out.
Another website did a great analysis on possible Big Ten expansion and why Texas is the best choice. When looking at conference expansion, we have to realize how different the game is compared to what it was when UA and ASU joined the PAC-10 or when USC and Arkansas joined the SEC. When the SEC expanded, all they cared about was the Championship Game, which meant any two decent schools would do. There is a lot more money involved today and so PAC-10 expansion will not be so obvious as picking up Boise, Utah, or BYU and calling it a day.
The first problem the PAC-10 has is that it is a regional conference. Now, I know most conferences are inherently regional, but there is a reason that the SEC has a contract with ESPN for nationwide broadcast while PAC-10 sticks their best games on Versus (and sometimes ABC). The PAC-10 teams comprise only four states in a limited geographic region, so any additions would have to significantly increase their reach.
I think this eliminates Boise State from serious contention because (a) Idaho is not a highly populated state, and (b) many people in Idaho already follow PAC-10 football because of the proximity.
Utah and BYU make obvious choices (but not both). Utah is the fastest growing state in the country and these schools would add quality football to the PAC-10. While it would seem obvious to add both in order to keep the pod system, that thinking went away 6 or 7 years ago. Bringing in two teams from the same market won’t work.
I think Colorado is the other obvious choice. They’ve been with the Big 12 since the Big 8 days, but their rivalries there are tenuous and they bring another quickly growing state in the conference (not to mention that it’s a state with a high number of California transplants).
If I ruled the world (and assuming Notre Dame to the Big Ten was impossible). I would send Texas to the Big Ten and Colorado and Utah to the PAC-10. BYU would fill Colorado’s spot in the Big 12 North and TCU would join the Big 12 South.
i just dont see Texas leaving the
Big 12…They’ve been doing pretty darn well of late and i just don’t see the advantage..
Lane Kiffin took the meaning of "Volunteer" WAY too seriously....
This is the advantage. In 2009, Big Ten teams raked in more than $15 million each from their television contracts (ESPN alone gives the conference $100 million per year). In contrast, the Big 12 brings in $57 million annually for its television contracts, or less than $5 million per team. You don’t think that Texas would seriously consider jumping ship for $10 million per year?
I should have read further.
The Big 12 doesn’t distribute money equally, but based on TV appearances, so Texas brought in $10 million. They would still stand to gain $5 million (from the TV contracts alone) by jumping to the Big Ten.
Texas
already makes more from their football program than any other team in the country. They also have at least 2 huge rivalries (I don’t know how they feel about TTech) in the Big 12 and I can’t see them being able to keep both. And, not that they have a say, but I’m pretty sure the students would revolt if they moved to the Big 10
by billycthulhu on Feb 10, 2010 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think rivalries are as big of a deal as we make them out to be.
For one, they’ve been playing OU since 1900 even while OU was in the Big 8 and UT was in the SWC. Secondly, when the SWC blew up, Texas made a hard run at joining the Big Ten (thus showing that their ties to Texas A&M aren’t that strong) and probably would have joined the Big Ten had the conference not placed a moratorium on expansion after adding PSU and had the governor of Texas not stepped in and basically forced all four schools to go to the Big 12.
I’m not saying Texas WILL join the Big Ten, I’m just saying that it really makes sense for both the conference and the school, and that the reasons for switching conferences today (exposure and money) are different than they were 15 or 20 years ago (location and rivalries).
Why the hell would Texas join the Big 10?
it would be geographically insane to join. They are too far south. Its like saying Alabama wishes to join the WAC for the lack of competition. Unless they develop an anti-gravity ray, pick up the school and move it to…i don’t know…Illinois. And rename it the University of Texas at Illinois. I can’t even fathom the concept.
My Mama says that alligators are ornery because they got all them teeth and no toothbrush.
by J.JACOBS4PRES on Feb 10, 2010 11:54 AM CST up reply actions
Did you even read my post?
the reasons for switching conferences today (exposure and money) are different than they were 15 or 20 years ago (location and rivalries).
UT is no further from Penn State than Boston College is from Miami. If Texas moves to the Big Ten it would be entirely for financial and academic reasons. Big Ten schools (along with the University of Chicago) are members of the Committee on Institutional Cooperation, which
increases the competitive advantage of its member institutions. Members enjoy cost savings and greater efficiencies; increased academic opportunities for students; and enhanced professional opportunities for faculty and staff.
Location doesn’t matter anymore, even to the big conferences. UT would be a benefit to the Big Ten both financially and academically and the Big Ten would be beneficial to UT both financially and academically.
here's my thing
$5 mil/year just doesn’t sound that lucrative to a school that generates so much revenue as is ($87.6 million in 2008).
I’m sure they’d like it, but it doesn’t seem like enough to consider shaking things up to the extent that you are talking about.
The Process of Champions
UT is no further from Penn State than Boston College is from Miami.
And thats one of the big problems the ACC is having…especially when it comes to their CCG. Fans don’t want to travel that far…attendance goes down and so does revenue. How many UT fans would go up to State College to see the game? Not that many…
Lane Kiffin took the meaning of "Volunteer" WAY too seriously....
Pac-10...
…is also super spread spread out.
I don’t imagine Washington to Arizona State is exactly a hop skip & a jump.
RollBamaRoll.com - Also check out my music blog: Hear the World
yeah...
making that trip from UCLA to USC has to be a bitch..
Lane Kiffin took the meaning of "Volunteer" WAY too seriously....
Perhaps,
but the ACC’s problem isn’t spread, it’s location. When BC and Virginia Tech are in your championship every year, attendance at a Florida championship game can get thin. Texas travels. They’ll travel to KC for the Big XII Championship, if the Big Ten scheduled theirs in St. Louis or Indianapolis, I don’t see Texas fans sitting home.
Being 'boots on the ground' in Pac10 country...
While it would seem obvious to add both in order to keep the pod system, that thinking went away 6 or 7 years ago
While a majority of college football fans agree with your comment (including myself) about the thinking, as evidenced by the articles and conversations on talk radio out here, the Pac10 is insistent on keeping a “pod” for the next two teams if possible. And of course the talk then gravitates to BYU/Utah as the best possible fit.
It's not what you've done, but what you are doing that matters.
by AlabamaJammer on Feb 10, 2010 9:38 AM CST up reply actions
Just out of curiousity,
is that from the pundits and sportswriters or is it from PAC-10 officials? I ask because I haven’t seen anything from PAC-10 officials regarding the philosophy or which teams they would look at or anything like that.
I'll do some searching for links
The article was in the Arizona Republic from a couple of months ago where a Pac10 official was quoted, and another official was on the local sports AM1060 during that same stretch (wish my recall was good enough to list their names right now). It happened to coincide with the SEC/Big-12/ACC championship games.
It's not what you've done, but what you are doing that matters.
by AlabamaJammer on Feb 10, 2010 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
My apologies
The article mentions Pac-10 officials that are not named, so there’s no clue to who was saying it within the Pac-10 office, either Larry Scott or the janitor unplugging the toilet in the plush offices.
I was able to catch a small snipet of the article and was able to catch the “un-named Pac-10 officials” to the quote, but if those cash hungry fish-wrap printers want me to pay to access the whole article. I’ll just say Mea Culpa about the issue before I pay those bastards.
It's not what you've done, but what you are doing that matters.
by AlabamaJammer on Feb 10, 2010 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
I dont see Texas leaving because of their rivalries ....
"Sympathy has expired Longhorns" WallaceWade04
by The Voice of Reason on Feb 10, 2010 8:28 AM CST reply actions
Really?
The Red River Shootout has been played since 1900 even when the two teams weren’t in the same conference, so there’s no reason that Texas and Oklahoma couldn’t keep playing. And UT’s ties to the other Texas schools can’t be that strong given that Texas was going to jump to the Big Ten after the SWC imploded except that the Big Ten had a moratorium on expansion since they had just picked up Penn State.
Texas has plenty of quality conference rivalries
besides Oklahoma…
Texas A&M
Texas Tech (which has intensified in recent years)
Nebraska
Boise St.
I’d love to see Boise go somewhere. I just want them to play stiffer competition so they won’t be in the BCS bowls every single year. I really hate that an undefeated school in a dinky conference gets ranked over a two loss SEC team.
Okay...
but some of these schools have already proven they can beat 1-loss SEC and Big 12 teams
by billycthulhu on Feb 10, 2010 10:55 AM CST up reply actions
in both of those games...
Boises and Utahs opponents didn’t give their all…lets be real honest here…
I don’t think these teams can do it consistently…at least if they played in the SEC or Big 12. I think if Utah or Boise went to the Pac 10, theyd be 8-4, 9-3 and have the occasional 10-2 season..Sure they can get up for one big game a year in the MWC but can they do it week in and week out against much better competition? I for one dont think they can….But i sure as hell think they should have a chance…at lease then they’d shut the hell up…
Lane Kiffin took the meaning of "Volunteer" WAY too seriously....
I take umbrage with Boise State
TCU and Oklahoma both were playing hard in those Fiesta Bowls Boise won. Now Utah, well we know what they were facing in contrast to what they should have faced.
It's not what you've done, but what you are doing that matters.
by AlabamaJammer on Feb 10, 2010 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
We sure as hell didn't show up
And, OU was in control of that game late….it took a series of brain farts, and every high school trick to eke out the 1 point win.
After Va. Tech guts them in DC on Labor Day, we’ll be mercifully rid of this Boise talk for 2010.
"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"
by Stuck in the Plains on Feb 10, 2010 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
Texas?
Jumping to the Big 10? If you do that then your fans will never go to another away game. I mean who wants to take a plane to see your team play Mich St. up there in the winter?
Texas will not jump. Period. And they don’t need the money that badly.
And I would like to see FSU in the SEC because it will strengthen the conference. They are going to return to power. If FSU replaced Arky or UK that would give us another team that could potentially win the NC. Right now the only teams in the SEC that can win the NC are Bama, UF, UT, LSU and UGA, and UGA is a long shot unless they dump Richt. (sorry Auburn, you ain’t never going to win another one so you better cherish 57.)
I hate the NCAA more than UT & AU combined. At least with UT & AU you got a fighting chance.
Auburn's looking pretty good
They might have an even better off-season than Ole Miss did last year.
by billycthulhu on Feb 10, 2010 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
impossible...
Ole Miss had the best offseason of all time!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lane Kiffin took the meaning of "Volunteer" WAY too seriously....
One thing I read on one of Stewart Mandel's tweets....
…was that BYU’s religious affiliation may be a problem for the Pac-10 (that being ANY affiliation, not because of the Mormon affiliation.) However, as they said, a team with a 60K+ stadium that can put asses in chairs might win out.
RollBamaRoll.com - Also check out my music blog: Hear the World
I don't think it's the religious affiliation,
so much as it’s the “not playing on Sundays” thing. BYU is strict about not playing on Sunday. That could hamper scheduling quite a bit (especially in non-football sports).
That's carved in Golden Plates.
Beat Auburn? CHECK. 12-0 regular season? CHECK. Beat the #1 Gators for the SECCG? CHECK. Ingram wins the Heisman? CHECK. Tide defeats the Longhorns for the BCS Championship? CHECK!
i was
actually thinking about the same thing last night…The other side of this is that no one would think twice about allowing ND into the Big 10…but there has always been a Catholic double standard…
Lane Kiffin took the meaning of "Volunteer" WAY too seriously....
I think it simply comes down to a difference in Pac-10/Big 10 regional culture
I’m pretty sure 100% of America would correctly guess which region is more religious as a general rule.
RollBamaRoll.com - Also check out my music blog: Hear the World
true..
but you have to admit the Catholic religion is more widely accepted than any other denomination in the Christian faith..i won’t say my opinion why…but it is true.
Lane Kiffin took the meaning of "Volunteer" WAY too seriously....
Well...
…it is the largest ‘denomination’ in Christianity, so that would make sense….
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Feb 11, 2010 2:52 PM CST up reply actions
i guess what i mean by that is...
its an unfair acceptance…That Catholics are more “accepted’” as not being crazy then say other denominations. This especially holds true in the media’s eyes. If a president is catholic its ok…but he better not be some crazy charismatic…
Lane Kiffin took the meaning of "Volunteer" WAY too seriously....
maybe now
But JFK had to give some huge religion speech b/c there was a lot of worry about being accepted as a Catholic presidential candidate. I mean, he was the FIRST Catholic president.
So I would say it’s more accepted than the LDS and maybe something like Pentacostal but not more than Baptist, Methodist, etc
by billycthulhu on Feb 11, 2010 5:02 PM CST up reply actions
yeah
i guess the ones that are most ‘acceptable’ are those that are least threatening..
Lane Kiffin took the meaning of "Volunteer" WAY too seriously....
I'm...
…a Christian, but I wouldn’t mind it if we had a Buddhist President every now and zen….
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Feb 11, 2010 8:25 PM CST up reply actions
looks like
Texas to the Big 10 isn’t just for shits and giggles..
Lane Kiffin took the meaning of "Volunteer" WAY too seriously....
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