College Football's All-Time Winningest Programs
by kleph on Mar 25, 2010 12:09 PM CDT
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As long as they don't mess with 323 then nobody's gonna get hurt.
Last September, in the wake of the resounding victory over Virginia Tech in the season opener, I posted an item listing the win as the 800th in Crimson Tide football history. Turns out I jumped the gun a bit and Mr. Holiday had to come in and clear up the mess.
The confusion stemmed from the uncertainty of how to handle the victories between 2005 and 2007 that were subject to vacation by the NCAA. Earlier this week, the association illogically decided to uphold the Committee on Infractions ruling that Alabama must clear 21 football victories from the record books.
That puts the Crimson Tide's all time record at 792 wins, 316 losses and 43 ties. And now we can revisit the list of college football's all-time winningest programs with a bit more authority.
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The numbers above are from the NCAA's 2008 overall statistics updated with the association's info on each team's subsequent seasons. Ideally, I'd prefer to link to a single authoritative source on the revised numbers but that's not available yet.
According to Mr. Holiday there are a likely a couple good reason for that. First off, Alabama must now send the NCAA a list of the games that will be vacated from the program's record before they are formally stricken from the association's rolls. Then, it's also possible that both UA and the NCAA must update all the individual player statistics for the games involved. Wonderful.
So what does all this mean? Alabama drops from sixth in the all-time win column to No. 7 and the all-time winning percentage total (.707) stands at No. 6. Is there any upshot? Why yes. It now seems the earliest we can hit the 800-win-mark (again) is on Oct. 23 in Neyland Stadium against the hated Vols. Now wouldn't that be nice?
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But our boys still have a share at #1 for the big stat that counts most...
…13 National Titles – far more than those damn yankees at Ohio State and Penn State who jumped the Tide in these standings.
by Dixie's Football Pride on Mar 25, 2010 12:22 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
And if we're just counting "official" (AP) titles...
…Bama is still tied up top with Neuter Dame, with 8!
by Dixie's Football Pride on Mar 25, 2010 12:24 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I think our prior win % was .712
You have to add the 21 games back into the total games played. Which means we didn’t drop at all in ranking in all time win %.
Just because you have to remove the total doesn’t mean the percentage stays the same. Example:
Say your record is 2-3 (.400). Let’s say you have to vacate two wins. Your record is now 0-1 (.000).
Since the only games we’re removing are wins, our percentage is going to go down. This is about as simple as it gets when it comes to math.
I'm wrong all the time.
As simple as it gets....
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Mar 25, 2010 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
poor poor pete
we love to jump on his shit dont we?
for the next five days there is nothing in my heart but hate. pure, untempered, ice-cold hate. fond memories are for saturday. - Kleph
by tempebamafan on Mar 27, 2010 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions
the current win percentage with the loss of the 21 wins is .707. if we re-run the numbers to include those vacated victories and we’d be at .725. now there is the possibility that the ncaa wipes the vacated contests off the overall game total. if that were the case our win percentage would stand at .720.
now, of course, that scenario would seem incorrect if for no other reason than the loss still stands as a “game” for our opponents. but if we’ve learned anything from the ncaa in this mess it’s that expecting them to act in any kind of rational manner is the utmost folly.
Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.
PETE! KLEPH!
Stop it with the math!!!!
DUURRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
In short, Alabama Coach Sarah Patterson smells blood. And she's looking to take it out on Brian Cook's girlfriends tonight. - NLS, 3-19-2010
by BamaReturns07 on Mar 25, 2010 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
rest assured...
i’m hating it as much as you are.
Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.
by kleph on Mar 25, 2010 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
dude. you gonna be in the 480 for ADAY?
we should do a get together brah! i’ll help organize/ can host if needed.
for the next five days there is nothing in my heart but hate. pure, untempered, ice-cold hate. fond memories are for saturday. - Kleph
by tempebamafan on Mar 27, 2010 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Winning % before and after
The numbers from the pre-2008 stats link kleph provides above are 787 wins, 314 losses, and 43 ties in 1,144 games. Adding in the past two years (26 wins, 2 losses, 28 games), we get 813-316-43 and 1172 games. The NCAA figures win% by counting a tie as .5 wins, so 813+21.5=834.5 wins. 834.5/1172 = .712
After the vacation, we subtract 21 from both the wins and the total games, so we get 813.5/1151 = .707
Kleph’s mistake when figuring our prior winning percentage was using our win total before vacating the wins, but our total games played from after vacating the wins: 834.5/1151 = .725.
And I didn’t say our percentage stays the same, but our win % ranking. Ohio State is 5th at .716, USC is 7th at .706. So, we were in 6th place before vacating the wins at .712, and now we’re in 6th place at .707.
i’m a bit torn on how to handle this because 1) this is the one area of the NCAA ruling that remains to be answered and 2) i suck at maths. i’m more than willing to accept your explanation as superior to my own. as a result i’ve taken the time-honored journalistic tradition of “writing around the problem.”
thus the text that read:
Alabama drops from sixth in the all-time win column to No. 7 as well as falling from third in the all-time winning percentage total (.725) to No. 6 (.707).
is now:
Alabama drops from sixth in the all-time win column to No. 7 and the all-time winning percentage total (.707) stands at No. 6.
i think this much, at least, is accurate. but, i’ll be honest, this is not particularly simple to sort out given the capricious nature of the ncaa’s decision and the arcane manner the institution keeps it’s records. i honestly don’t know if the total games is 1151 or 1172 and that’s the difference between No. 6 (.707) and a tie for No. 9 with Tennessee (.694).
Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.
I'm with ya...
…but logically, if the ‘vacated wins’ don’t count as losses, then it seems the total games number should be 1151 instead of 1172 so that the ‘vacated wins’ aren’t…um…counted as losses.
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Mar 25, 2010 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Bowl wins
It is a little sad that we no longer have the record for bowl wins. That now goes to USC.
i thought we were now tied?
"Yeah, it's Tennessee, that's the way it is sometimes." - Corey Zickefoose, Pulitzer Prize winner and robbery victim
"This is not the end. This is the beginning." - The Great and Powerful Saban
by Thomas Walker Esq on Mar 25, 2010 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions
no. USC tied us last year with 31. WE both had 32 after wins this year, but now I guess we are back to 31 “official” bowl victories.
Well,
we can all hope that the potential loss of scholarships, vacated wins, and perhaps even bowl ineligibility coming out of the NCAA’s investigation of USC will put us back on top. Not that these things will necessarily happen, but if any of them do, we may well be able to have the record back shortly.
"Let's go be champions, boys!" - Greg McElroy
(Formerly SugarBowl93)
by RememberTheRoseBowl on Mar 25, 2010 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah, i noted that but avoided it here
because it’s got its own set of potholes. for example, what bowl game did we play in last january?
Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.
keith jackson was there
so it counts as a Rose Bowl in my book.
also i think that’d put us at 4-1-1 in Rose Bowls right? my favorite thing to do is remind the pac-10 homers @ that our win over USC in the 40’s was the last time they let anyone but the big 10 come play the pac 10…
for the next five days there is nothing in my heart but hate. pure, untempered, ice-cold hate. fond memories are for saturday. - Kleph
by tempebamafan on Mar 27, 2010 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Who owns the record for
most badass coach who doesn’t have time for this shit?
In short, Alabama Coach Sarah Patterson smells blood. And she's looking to take it out on Brian Cook's girlfriends tonight. - NLS, 3-19-2010
Bama - 2-0
Bear, Saban
In short, Alabama Coach Sarah Patterson smells blood. And she's looking to take it out on Brian Cook's girlfriends tonight. - NLS, 3-19-2010
by BamaReturns07 on Mar 25, 2010 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Since our wins...
…losses, and ties equal our total games in the chart above, does that mean that the ‘vacated wins’ now count as losses or that they have been removed from the total games column?
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Mar 25, 2010 3:12 PM CDT reply actions
removed from total games column
they don’t count as anything
"Yeah, it's Tennessee, that's the way it is sometimes." - Corey Zickefoose, Pulitzer Prize winner and robbery victim
"This is not the end. This is the beginning." - The Great and Powerful Saban
by Thomas Walker Esq on Mar 25, 2010 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
OK...
…let’s just win our next 21 and put ’em right back….
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Mar 25, 2010 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions
i treated them as removed but this is one of the points that we are waiting to get the answer on from the ncaa. it’s the difference between a .707 winning percentage and a .694 (the same as tennessee’s).
Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.
If the NCAA doesn't remove them from the total games played
then they count the same as losses as far as win-% calculations go. After all win% is just wins divided by total games, and if it counts in the total games but it’s not a win then that leaves…
You said it well above though that “expecting them to act in any kind of rational manner is the utmost folly.”
I don't think...
…he’s quoting anyone, just applying logic to the situation, as I did above before I read his comment, which essentially says the same thing.
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Mar 25, 2010 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I don’t have a source, just saying I think the assumption you made to remove them from the total games is correct. It would blow my mind for the NCAA to decide otherwise.
By the way, thanks for doing posts like this. I like to keep up with this kind of thing, and this is a good collection of information. I can see myself coming back to this post a lot as I want to remind myself of the numbers.
It would blow my mind...
…for the NCAA to get it right….
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Mar 26, 2010 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
ha, 10-23
Shula’s revised record
"Yeah, it's Tennessee, that's the way it is sometimes." - Corey Zickefoose, Pulitzer Prize winner and robbery victim
"This is not the end. This is the beginning." - The Great and Powerful Saban
by Thomas Walker Esq on Mar 25, 2010 4:04 PM CDT reply actions
Do you think the NCAA...
will finally go after USC since Pete Carroll is gone and Shitfin in there now?
"When you give a Gatorade bath, you're not suppose to hit the coach in the head with the bucket !" - Saban
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