Nuclear Eruption? Try China Syndrome...

in the mid 90’s notre damn got caught with people inside the AD and school colluding witht he players to get other students to stand in for them during tests. ND didn’t geta damn thing. Fla st’s AD colluded with the playters to help them get free chit from Foot Locker.

sorry but a boosters’ involvement in a player who never played, versus an atheletic department helping kids cheat? i know which is worse in my mind.

USC’s approach and Bama’s approach were totally different. We fell on our own sword and the truth is that much of our “guilt” was admitted to when we could have denied the allegations. I’m not even sure if we were totally guilty of everything we said we were guilty of (but that is another discussion.)

The NCAA made it sound like that the only thing that kept us from the death penalty was our cooperation.

Now USC comes along and does not cooperate much at all. Let’s just see what happens.

And I know people say the reason we got hammered was “repeat” offender. But somewhere you have to take into account that USC may not have been on probation but even as they were getting investigated they still were doing the same kind of stuff even this year with McKnight.

So we will see which approach works best with the NCAA.

And could it be that the NCAA is just waiting until some other big story breaks to release their findings and then bury a wrist slap under the other stories of the day?

Not saying this is what is happening, but sometimes the level of outcry has to do with timing.

I’m not going to say I’m an expert on every allegation that has been leveled at the Trojans because, quite frankly, my attention span just isn’t that strong and this thing has dragged on forever.

So what did USC stonewall about? They didn’t stonewall about OJ Mayo and even self-sanctioned the hoops program.

WRT Bush…SC did cooperate from the word go…the NCAA drug this out because Bush and Lake continued to do their legal dance. If the NCAA had SC by the balls this would have ended years ago…

The NCAA couldn’t move because all the critical info was locked up either in non-disclosure agreements (Michaels) or because the info Lake provided to the NCAA could not be corroborated to nail it all down. They needed it crosschecked through Michaels testimony which wasn’t going to happen until Lake testified first and he didn’t want that because he knew he would incriminate himself WRT breaking CA. state law.

There has NEVER been any allegation that USC’s staff or Admin knew about the Bush dealings. Lake tried to imply that Pete Carroll knew but he changed his story. USC’s culpability has always been about WHAT should have they of known not what did they know.

Why would would a program implicate itself if it didn’t know? What is there to be open about if they didn’t know?

There is no paper trail at SC because SC wasn’t involved…this was a rogue parent cutting a side deal. Do I think Reggie knew? Yes, I do. But short of some horrible felony no kid is going to rat his parents out over cutting a side deal for a few extra bucks. It isn’t right and SC will be punished but lets try to stay on message…SC did cooperate but they could only cooperate as to what they knew.

Most of guys are pretty reasonable…If SC is guilty then we will gladly take the punishment but only if the punishment fits the crime…

Why would make anything up about something they didn’t know about?

not because of fairness but because the ensuing outrage might be the only thing big enough to get this fucking obsolete useless institution to change and start actually doing the job it was created to perform.

i thought it was good.

…rest of the time, “eh.”

well, it is a big state.

…although being pretty sucktacular at football lately historically has an insanely successful athletics program.

Rec’d!!!

Wait … we’ve got promoted to little brother status?? Damn! We’re on the move. w00t!

Little brother? According to the US News rankings:

University of California at Berkeley founded 1868
No. 1 University in the United States for graduate education (tied with Stanfurd, MIT, and Carnegie Mellon)
No. 1 Public university for undergraduate eduction
No. 21 University overall for undergraduate education
And 65 Nobel Prize Winners (21 faculty, 26 alumni, 18 researchers)

University of Southern California founded 1888
No. 27 University for graduate education (tied with University of Virginia)
No. 26 University for undergraduate education
And 1 Nobel Prize winner (faculty)

University of California at Los Angeles founded 1919
No. 14 University for graduate education
No. 2 Public university for undergraduate education
No. 24 University overall for undergraduate education
And 10 Nobel Prize winners (5 faculty and researchers, 5 alumni)

All of these schools are pretty darn good. But it is definitely Cal who is the Big Brother!

See the Joe McKnight thing as a repeat offender when they were not even on probation.

I see Joe McKnight as just a continuation of LOIC. Again SC should have figured something was up with JM.

But, no way USC gets the death penalty even if they find out Pete Carroll gave all the freshmen new cars.

However, if the NCAA comes down hard on USC they would probably be smart to have a complinace official with Kiffin 24-7. Actually, they’d be smart to have a complinace person with Kiffin 24-7 even if they get off free.

In a funny way, USC has brought in the one guy, the one head coach that is arrogant and goffy enough to still challenge the NCAA after being hit with heavy penalties. And they brought him in for 4 mil. Wow, they really are clueless at USC. Kiffin makes Mike Shula look like a Rhodes Scholar.

It won’t be used as multiple offender. That’s just common sense. Doesn’t do much for the reputation of southern California for intelligence. Sad, in it’s way – major sanctions may be the only way Slick Rick gets UCLA back to top form. Oh wait, Kiffin is SC’s coach… Maybe those two can just hash it out via that Top Model show. They’re both pretty, blonde, and clearly overcompensating.

that really pushes my buttons. this is why i hate the NCAA as it stands now.

That’s true, but depending on which infractions they decide occurred, it is possible that they will have come after that window closed.

No one is sure the NCAA worries about fact-based things

…is arguments based on morality. Anyone can come up with a punishment that USC DESERVES based on their own morals, but that’s not the point. The point is that USC violated NCAA rules, and its up to the NCAA to determine what they consider a proper punishment for violating those rules. Morality doesn’t play any part in this.

To be clear, when I say “consistency is difficult to achieve,” I mean that it is difficult to create a single reasonable projection of penalties for certain factual scenarios.

If there are four different options that could be justified as “consistent” , no matter what is chosen, proponents of the other three will cry inconsistency. Rarely, although the textbook case is a good example, is the consistent course of action clearly defined.

IIRC didn’t Yahoo blow the story? So they can find out, but the coaches who are there every day had no clue?

It goes back to something that Paragon mentioned above – what is the reasonable level of monitoring?

well, that’s what pete addressed in this observation:

In the 2002 Alabama case, the NCAA made clear on numerous occasions that not only did Alabama not know about the Means situation, but that they could not have found out about it. There comes a point where "plausible deniability" turns into "failure to monitor" or "lack of institutional control."

and we saw it in the textbook situation as well. the ncaa has a history of interpreting inaction as LOIC. the fact that it’s a fallacious negative affirmation is the nut of the problem. there isn’t anything a school can do to defend themselves from it. basically, the ncaa committee on infractions uses it as a club to push through the punishments they deem applicable regardless of the physical evidence.

our objection to the organization isn’t because we were punished but instead it’s because the punishments were arbitrary and impossible to defend against. and now the same thing is happening to usc.

Of course, the problem isn’t the contacts, it was McKnight who should have known the rules and either didn’t know them or didn’t follow them. Same thing with Reggie Bush, actually. Unless you claim that Bush didn’t know about the benefits his parents allegedly received, you can’t say that USC didn’t know, because Bush is, in fact, a representative of the school’s athletic interests.

i’ve been very impressed on how cool headed the debate has been