More on Stallings, Fran, and the 1990's decline...
by outsidethesidelines on May 18, 2010 9:12 PM CDT
in Football
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PrintAs most of you know, I've written extensively in the past about Stallings, Fran, and the decline of the Alabama football program in the late-1990's. It's been a long time since I've written an installment of the Franchione saga, but I still get frequent e-mails over it, so I figured this would at least somewhat relevant. I posted the following comment earlier in Kleph's book review of "Crimson Slide":
Kleph, I think, nails it on the entitlement issue. Clearly it is the head coach who is ultimately responsible, but to assume that the players are just raw pieces of clay to be shaped by coaches and completely absolved of any responsibility is erroneous. I do think that accounts like this showcase that, while in many cases we were recruiting very talented players, we were largely recruiting the wrong type of people. What I mean by that is players who may have had a significant amount of raw talent, but players who on a personal level did not have the requisite desire and mental ability to understand the difficulty of the task at hand and the enormous sacrifices that would be required to have long-term success. Instead, we had a lot of talented players who felt that winning would just be the natural end result, and who looked to blame everyone else when that inevitably did not come to fruition. Character isn’t everything of course — talent matters too — but this little episode is a good showcase that raw talent divorced from character is unlikely to be an engine of success.
Now, his glowing review of Franchione is — believe it or not — in many ways correct. Say what you will about his departure, but in his time in Tuscaloosa Fran was nothing if not professional in his day-to-day management of the team. He kicked out of a lot of bad seeds, put players back to work in the weight room, was explicit in setting standards that he expected players to meet (on the field, off the field, and in the classroom), and never feigned any reservations whatsoever about booting or benching players who failed to meet those standards (even if those players were the team’s best players). In that regard, Fran was clearly everything you wanted in a football coach.
The praise of Fran, however, should probably stop there. He didn’t recruit well, he arguably put the players in poor schemes, his playcalling was suspect, and he literally was looking to leave Tuscaloosa months after arriving. Keep in mind, though, that when this went to press in 2003, 77-0 had only happened on some kid’s PS2 and the national press was still running rampant with talk of how Fran was the next Bear Bryant. When this book was written, the underlying expectation was that Fran would build a national championship powerhouse in College Station and Alabama fans would spend decades crying in their crimson beer over what could of been. None of that came to fruition, of course, and frankly that is all the more reason to wait on writing the book, really.
And with Stallings, I’ve written about him extensively in the past, and I still contend the Alabama fan base does not have a healthy understanding of his tenure. He did many good things in Tuscaloosa… he inherited a team with a lot of talent, quickly infused discipline, toughness, and a couple of good recruiting classes, and combined he won very big with it his first few years. However, people who like to cast Stallings as a football jesus simply overlook many of his shortcomings. He played a key role in botching the Langham affair, getting us hammered by the NCAA in the short-term and setting us up for the long-term Means disaster. He didn’t recruit like he should have from 1992 on, he failed to seize the momentum of the national championship, he had a lot of in-fighting on his staff, and his out-dated offensive approach became a burden, increasingly so in an era with an increased emphasis on the passing game and the offense in general. He didn’t ultimately stick around to see the worst of it, but he was responsible for some of the decline of Alabama football in the late 1990’s. Dubose deserves the bulk of the blame, mind you, but Stallings should not be absolved of all responsibility and in fact his share of the blame is far from negligible. All in all, the result is a mixed bag. Stallings did some great things, but did some bad things as well, and those who love to deify him must completely ignore the many negative aspects of his tenure in order to do so.
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Your writing has improved a great deal
You have always had a thoughtful and detailed approach, but over the past few years you have improved on that a great deal and it’s noticeable. Appreciate your insight as always.
Stallings has such a soft spot in the hearts of Bama fans because he was a throwback to Bear, and after the Curry years alot of fans were pining for something familiar. I agree, however, that for all the discipline he brought to the team there was a lot missing in many regards. I’m curious why he kept assistants around that either didn’t get along with each other or Stallings himself. Any clue as to why?
And even beyond these shortcomings, he still won a lot, and was heads and shoulders above every other coach we had until Saban (with the possibility of Price, which we will never know).
www.RollBamaRoll.com - Our logo has more championships than you
one thing i was struck by
after reading staffo’s book about the period between bear and stallings was how much the turmoil above the head coach led to disarray in the program.
as i wrote at the time:
Bryant’s death of was much more than the loss of a legendary football coach, it created a crisis for the university that few realized the scope of at the time. Over the preceding quarter century, Coach Bryant had consolidated his control over not just the football program but the entire athletic department. He was a master at keeping various factions at bay and allowed the football program to prosper unmolested.
With his passing, administrators long kept at the periphery of the largess brought in by the football program scrambled for control while coaches and staff tried to keep the status quo. Former players and boosters also vied for a place at the table. The result, when no single person or group was able to emerge clearly victorious, was institutional anarchy. Its not by accident that this period saw the ascendance of Paul Finebaum.
fans just wanted to see the team keep winning no matter who was walking the sideline but the problem was bryant’s impact went much further than that. by the time the administration figured this out things had gotten pretty bad and they handed the keys to stallings.
staffo’s other book (and ots’ own account of the period) underscore that it was only a stopgap fix. as turmoil roiled the offices above the program suffered.
it’s in this manner saban truly is the heir of bryant. witt and moore gave him carte blanche with the program and promised to stay out of his hair, in return he’s clearly agreed to keep the running of things clean and on the straight and narrow. to do this, the man steps on a lot of toes but nothing heals that like results, as bryant demonstrated.
the question i have now is what is being done to plan for after saban. we’ve learned what happens when a coaching change happens with no preparation. while no one expects saban to leave anytime soon now’s the time to start laying the groundwork into the future – ideally with saban’s input. who are the ideal candidates? how will the transition work? what will be the plan for the assistants? who will have control over things for the interim? finding answers now is a hell of a lot easier than in that six week window the job search usually takes.
Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.
Kleph- If there
really is a plan for post-Saban, I’d be shocked. But I cannot see us going to a coach in waiting scheme even if we think Kirby Smart is that kind of guy.
I’d be surprised if we have much of a plan for post-Moore. We may have our eyes on a few candidates although I suspect the ship has already sailed on Ozzie Newsome.
I hate the NCAA more than UT & AU combined. At least with UT & AU you got a fighting chance.
Frankly
there is no good way to transition from a head football coach who is one of the greatest in the county to anyone else. IMHO, you must accept that when that happens, there will be a wilderness period while the school must re-evaluate itself, and then hope you get lucky again. It’s really, really hard to find the best coach in the country.
Bama has had a lot of success with Wade, Bryant, and now Saban, who in my mind rank above Thomas and Stallings for a lot of reasons. But it did take a while between these three men before it all came together. IMHO, whenever Saban leaves (hopefully between 15 and 20 years from now), we’ll go through another similar wandering time before we are able to hire the next big thing.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." - Bear Bryant
Agree.
But you’d have to say the transition from Wade to Thomas was well thought out and successful.
And, although Thomas only won 2 NC to Wade’s 3, their winning percentage was the same. Plus, Thomas was sick late in his career. I’d say Thomas was Wades equal.
I hate the NCAA more than UT & AU combined. At least with UT & AU you got a fighting chance.
and why did that work?
because denny made sure it did. and don’t forget, he transitioned from xen scott to wade as well. we probably could learn a lot from the man whose name is on the stadium.
Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.
Denny
Was an incredible president. The current state of UA football may be attributed to Mike. Fortunately, Witt is also exceptional.
I wouldn't piss off the boys from Alabama . . . DBT
I hope so.
I talked to Dr. Witt at the Rose Bowl and he seemed like a nice guy. Just hope he is up to it.
I hate the NCAA more than UT & AU combined. At least with UT & AU you got a fighting chance.
he is a nice guy
i was acquainted with him before he came to alabama when he was brought in to quell a massive administrative fiasco at a UT system school. he knows how to run an institution and handle problems within it.
i was nothing but impressed at the time and was overjoyed to hear he was tapped for the UA job during the tsunami of suck that struck us during that era. whatever reservations i had about he preparedness for the unique management challenge of alabama football was answered in his handling of the price debacle.
Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.
A bit off topic, but
Interested in hearing everyone’s opinion on the matter. To a degree, I feel like “that guy” who says the following on call in radio, “long time listener, first time caller” followed by, “I will hang up and listen.”
Anyway, I was wondering about how everyone thinks of Bill Curry. The reason I ask, in particular in response to this post is that what I recall is that basically, Stallings won with a lot of Curry’s recruits.
However, to be fair, I have to give some details about myself. I am a second generation alumni of Alabama. My father was at the capstone from 68-72, and I was there from 97-01. Obviously (born in 1979), during Curry’s tenure, I was far too young to have any real sort of bearing on the both the landscape of college football nor the status of our beloved Tide. Additionally, I grew up in Atlanta, and its very likely that the first CF game I ever saw was a GA Tech game at Bobby Dodd, with Curry likely coaching. I remember the three losses to Auburn, primarily because my Dad was quite pissed about it. I also vaguely remember Jeff Dunn, who from memory had an awesome mullet. Steve Tanneyhill is simply an imposter.
Anyway, a few years ago I was working for a private company in my first real job, and the principle owner was the grandson in law of Bobby Dodd. Ironic, but true, he is a big Bama fan himself. Every year the Dodd coach of the year award is held in Atlanta, and while I was working for that company we always “volunteered” to help the event out. I would have volunteered without the quotations, but to be fair to my former co-workers, it was pretty much forced. Anyway, I got to meet a lot of coaches at the annual event over three years, including Johnny Majors, Ken Hatfield, George O’Leary, Jim Mora Sr. (playoffs?), Jim Mora Jr., Dan Reeves, and a few others. To say that I know them would be a farce, but anyway, it was pretty cool. The day after the evening event, we all got to play in a golf tourney, each contributor or volunteer with a coach. I played all three years, and got to do so with Ted Roof, Joe Lee Dunn, and Ken Hatfield. Certainly not A-listers, but all really cool guys. By the way, should you ever meet Joe Lee Dunn, I would strongly suggest not asking him what he thinks of Jackie Sherill, I did, and frankly, thats a big mistake.
Anyway, back to the point, Bill is always present at this award, and generally one of the key note speakers. Quite obviously, he is a big Bobby Dodd supporter, and truly appreciative of his time at GA Tech. I must also say, he is about the nicest person you will ever meet in sports, period. I was helping out with the silent auction, and struck up a conversation about his tv work and a bunch of other stuff, and he literally could not have been a nicer guy. I didn’t dare bring up how he fells about Tide, as that simply would have been impolite, just got to shoot the breeze with him for a bit.
History is often written from a revisionist standpoint, and I am wondering if Curry’s era at the Capstone should perhaps be reevaluated? Granted, during his tenure, there wasn’t an ultimate prize, there were three bitter losses to Auburn, but he did at least in some measure bring in the talent that lead to the 1992 championship.
Bottom line, I love this blog, its a great insight into both current info and a study of our past. Additionally, for the most part I think that the posters are generally informed and sometimes quite funny. What I would like to hear is:
1. What are your thoughts on Billy Curry?
2. Is it possible that his previous tenure at the Capstone lead to him being able to negotaite a pay day for his upstart Georgia State program, or is that simply coincidence?
I was in my late teens in the Curry years
but what I remember is it wasn’t his results I disliked, but the fact that he didn’t seem to respect Alabama as an institution. He just didn’t “get it,” what it meant to be an Alabama fan. It always seemed to him that it was just another job, and to the extent that he did understand things, he never seemed to like them. And yes, his tenure at Alabama is a tremendous plus for his resume, and when he dies he will be remembered at least in part as the onetime head football coach here, as everyone who has been so here will be.
Going on to Fran, he did seem to get it, but seemed to hate it, which I find totally baffling. I remember the quote that his wife said thank you for bringing them back to Texas, and by implication away from Alabama. How could anyone think that way about our program? I understand if that’s how you feel, but he shouldn’t have come here if that’s indeed how he felt.
It all goes back to one of the most famous quotes from Bryant, when he explained coming to Bama despite being a success at TA&M simply as “Mama called.” Though Saban isn’t an alum, he seemes to understand the feeling like Bryant does. It’s a tremendous honor and challenge to be the head coach at Alabama. Some, like Fran and Curry, maybe were up to the challenge (to an extent, anyway) but did not appreciate the honor. Some, like Duboise, appreciated the honor but were not up to the challenge. When you get a coach who understands the honor and is up to the challenge, you have a coach who can win multiple NCs, which is why this is the best coaching job in America.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." - Bear Bryant
Ha ha! What an understatement.
By the way, should you ever meet Joe Lee Dunn, I would strongly suggest not asking him what he thinks of Jackie Sherill
I’m betting his thoughts on the matter are similar to those of Tommy West:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiRBr0qlsAs
by TETRAGRAMMATON on May 19, 2010 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Curry is a nice guy.
He would have been better off to stay at Tech.
He did not understand Alabama at all.
Why in the world he would take this job at Ga State is beyond me.
I think many of his players did respect him.
The way he left Bama was almost as bad as Fran. At least Fran had this “return” to Texas thing going. Curry just couldn’t take the heat
I hate the NCAA more than UT & AU combined. At least with UT & AU you got a fighting chance.
Curry
To #1: I haven’t posted much here, in part because the first time I did, it was about Curry. The message I got from the regular posters here was that Curry was basically anathema to them. Since Curry’s recruits won the 1992 NC, and since Curry’s winning percentage was bettered only by Wade, Thomas, Bryant, Saban, and Stallings (who’s behind Curry if you vacate the wins vacated by the NCAA), the hostility can seem misplaced at a distance of 20 or more years.
So where does it come from? As far as I can tell, from two places: first, that as NJBammer says, Curry was perceived to lack sufficient respect for the University; second, as others have said at various times on this blog, Curry’s comments about Alabama in his years as a TV commentator were not taken well.
In one sense, these are the same thing: the complaint is that Curry lacked respect for the institution, either during his tenure as head coach, or afterward. But they’re also different things. The second bit — anger over Curry’s own nationally televised lingering resentment after his tenure as head coach — seems pretty reasonable to me. It’s hard to take that kind of thing, especially when the program was down.
The first bit, however — about respect for the institution during his tenure as coach — seems unfair. I think people (kleph and OTS aside, judging from the above) sometimes underestimate the difficulty of coming in after Bryant (OK, so technically after Perkins, but really still after Bryant), and coming in as a non-Alabama, non-Bryant person into that institutional context at that time. (And given his GA Tech background, he may have been perceived from the start as having an anti-Bryant bent.) Remember that Perkins, Stallings, and DuBose were all Bryant people, meaning that with the exception of Curry, it took the University 18 years to go to a non-Bryant person for the head coaching job. Even the ADs after Bryant were Bryant people (at least that’s my memory — I looked around for a bit online but couldn’t find a complied list of Alabama ADs). So breaking into that group, and trying to have some freedom of movement, would have been pretty hard, I think, without stepping on some toes.
My own impression — and I’m sure others’ will diverge — is that Curry’s attitude was largely the same as Saban’s during his first year: Don’t act entitled to a championship, don’t tell me how to do my job, and be patient. (Though perhaps he did lack some basic political sense in his attitude toward the Auburn losses.) Saban’s temporal distance from the Bryant era — indeed, from any truly winning era in Tuscaloosa — made it a lot easier to recognize the tradition and greatness of Alabama football without compromising his own status and power in the institution. (And coming in on the bad end of a long run of losses to Auburn makes it hard to go anywhere but up in that respect.) But the desperation of the institution and the fanbase gave Saban a lot more leeway, too. A dozen years in the wilderness, and 20 years since Bryant, will do a lot for people’s willingness to hear certain messages. I know it did a lot for mine.
To #2: Curry’s own account, given in the ESPN magazine coverage of GSU’s program, is that the invitation came unsolicited from Alabama, that he tried to delay it until next year, and that he was told 2010 or nothing.
FWIW about Coach Curry
I was a student at Bama during the Curry years and a few things stand out in my memory of those days. One thing was that BDS was undergoing a major renovation-expansion. Thus for a couple of seasons all home games had to be played at Legion Field which really sucked but is neither here nor there. Another thing was that Bill Curry was hired as HC (instead of a ready, willing and able Bobby Bowden) because Joab Thomas, the new university president who was by all appearances an effete eastern intellectual who loathed the idea of being president of a “football school,” wanted to bring in someone who would change the culture at the Capstone. I don’t mean to disrespect Vanderbilt, I’ve been a student there as well, but Bama is Bama and Vandy is Vandy and ne’er the twain shall meet. In retrospect, it should have surprised no one that a brink was chucked through Bill Curry’s window, if in deed such a thing actually happened. The man was set up to fail.
Two things Coach Curry did early in his tenure really stand out in my mind. One was on the field and the other was not. The on field thing was that he took Gene Jelks, the RB who out rushed Bo Jackson in the legendary 1985 Iron Bowl, and moved him over to safety. This was an unfathomable coaching decision that would have repercussions in the next Iron Bowl, and in the years that followed. The off the field thing the new coach did was to try to have the Rammer Jammer banned. I respected his point of view on that subject but questioned his priorities. The most storied program in the history of southern football had taken a slide into mediocrity and the new coach of that program wanted to spin his wheels lecturing to the fans and students about how he thought we should be conducting ourselves at games. These things alone did not damn him but they did help foster a toxic environment that would brook little room for error. After President Joab resigned, or whatever it was that happened to him, there was nothing Bill Curry could do to keep his job except maybe beat Auburn, just once, and we all remember how that worked out.
Having said all this, I wish the man all the success one can reasonably expect to have at Georgia State. Don’t think twice, it’s all right.
Being good has nothing to do with it, Mikey. They choose your name randomly out of the phonebook.
by Mr. Kobayashi on May 19, 2010 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Joab Thomas
Joab Thomas was from Holt, and taught at Alabama for almost a decade before leaving for NC State, where he was at until he came back to Alabama to be President. He may well have wanted to change the culture, but hiring Bill Curry wasn’t an attempt to kill or demote the football program. Maybe it was an attempt to wrest it from the control of Bryant’s people. In any case, it obviously didn’t work, and he (President Thomas) didn’t work out well for Alabama, as you note. But he was Alabama born and raised.
while certainly no expert
since the bill curry years coincided with my daughters’ teen years. i had a whole lot else on my mind other than the nitty-gritty behind the goings on at the capstone. my perspective as a life-long fan (and adding the ‘a-t-i-c’ at the end of that word is, in this case, appropriate) on bill curry is similar to njbammer’s in that the joy was missing. yes, we were winning games (except for the boogs) but there was just something missing….and what was missing was curry’s PASSION for The University of Alabama, plain and simple. i will also add that i have never been more EMBARRASSED to be an alabama fan than i was then because of the whole brick + window incident. we were SO spoiled and SO entitled that we, as a fanbase, basically went mad. i think we really began to realize what it meant to have to replace The Bear. i thought curry seemed to be a likeable guy – which should not be on the short-list of head coach qualifications. he also ran his mouth too much (on NATIONAL TV no less) after leaving town which, in some sick way, seemed to justify (to some) the way in which he was treated in the end. perfect example of two wrongs NOT making a right.
"You have to create 6 seconds of hell each play..."
Coach Nick Saban
would you say
Saban has a passion for the university?
"You stay bought into it when you see your opponent sucking air and physically failing and you're still fit and ready and you know you own his ass."- Corey Reamer speaking about Coach Cochran
without question
he is incredibly proud to be associated with the university of alabama and president witt and said so at the caravan in pensacola. the strides the university has made in the past 8 years in the academic world are absolutely impressive. i understand i should provide links but can’t right now due to work constraints…hope to get back to this later.
"You have to create 6 seconds of hell each play..."
Coach Nick Saban
i wasn't
implying he doesn’t. BUT I think Saban isn’t all in love with Alabama. Certianly not as much as the fans. Sure he respects the traditions and is happy to be here but lets not act like he finally found his way back home.
"You stay bought into it when you see your opponent sucking air and physically failing and you're still fit and ready and you know you own his ass."- Corey Reamer speaking about Coach Cochran
have you heard him speak?
and where did i say he was in love with Alabama (although if love is transitive, he IS since ms. terry is)? the man respects the hell out of our tradition for expecting to be the best and is not a mere bystander while that expectation spreads to ALL sports and academics. he wants to be the best at EVERYTHING and is taking an active part in making it so.
i understand the whole ’I’m not the next coach at Alabama" or whatever he said, but color me convinced that he has zero and i mean absolutely zero plans to leave our football program OR our university. he has bought in to OUR process too.
"You have to create 6 seconds of hell each play..."
Coach Nick Saban
It takes a certain kind of man
to be able to come into a situation where you will always be compared with the greatest coach in history, and maybe the second greatest, too (at least in the top 5 or so), and all that tradition and high expectations. In order to apprecaite the honor you have to have the guts to think you, too, can win multiple NCs and dominate college football. Either that, or the history will swallow you alive.
Everything I’ve seen about Saban makes me think he’s respectful of the tradition while still being confident enough to think he belongs here. Some call him arrogant. Maybe so, but to quote Winston Churchhill, “He’s got a lot to be arrogant about!”
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." - Bear Bryant
i agree. i don't think he leaves either...
Its hard to put into words my opinion on this.
1. I believe Saban to be a man that looks out for his best interest. He’s also a man who gives 100% to whatever task is at hand. So I believe that while he is the coach at Alabama, he will do anything and everything to make not only himself but Alabama the best at everything. All the way down to the way the janitors mop the floor.
2. I guess in a way i don’t trust him 100%. Though i don’t
believehe’ll leave us…im not holding my breath. He’s a driven man and I wouldn’t put it past him to leave for another challenge once he believes his job here is done.
I respect the hell out of CNS and I don’t think there is a better fit for Alabama in all of college football than CNS.
"You stay bought into it when you see your opponent sucking air and physically failing and you're still fit and ready and you know you own his ass."- Corey Reamer speaking about Coach Cochran
I think CNS will leave due to the following reasons
and only one of these:
1) He’s accomplished enough to be regarded as the best coach to have been here and is looking for a new challenge. I base this as the likely reason he left LSU. In this case, he’s gonna be here a long, long time.
2) He believes he can accomplish more elsewhere. I believe this is the reason the left NC State. While it is possible that he thinks he can do this at a college program other than Alabama, it isn’t likely.
3) He believes he cannot accomplish what he wants to while he is here. I think this is why he left Miami. I don’t see this as likely any time soon, but I do think it’s the most likely of all the possibilities in the short run. Maybe if the almuni or the administration gets in his way too much, or the NCAA decides they have it out for him. Otherwise, I can’t see this happening for quite a while, if ever.
4) He gets tired of coaching. This happens to everyone, and will happen to him sooner or later. Hopefully later for our sakes, but what can you do?
All this being said, I think it’s very likely he’ll be here at least another 10 years.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." - Bear Bryant
my personal take is he’ll hear the siren song of the nfl one more time and succumb to it as it’s the only coaching challenge that has eluded him, a la carroll. but i don’t think that’ll happen for at least five years.
Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.
I think Carroll
has more to do with getting our while the getting was good due to pending NCAA sanctions than wanting to prove anything in the NFL, but you may be right.
I just think that Saban could have stayed at Miami if he wanted to stay in the NFL. I think he decided it just wasn’t for him, he wanted to be a college coach more than a pro one.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." - Bear Bryant
I agree, but still...
when Saban gets tired of winning "MNC"s, he may decide to give it one more shot.
I choose...
…to take the man at his word. His word says this is his last coaching job.
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on May 20, 2010 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions
2) Michigan State, not NC.
One other possibility is that Mal retires and we screw up and hire a new AD who decides to take the bull (i.e. Saban) by the horns and put his stamp on the program, and pisses Nick off in the process. a.k.a. the Bockrath Syndrome
again..
don’t take my question or statement as disrespect. My point is, I can only think of two coaches post Bryant that truly loved the university as much as the fans do.
Stallings and Shula.
"You stay bought into it when you see your opponent sucking air and physically failing and you're still fit and ready and you know you own his ass."- Corey Reamer speaking about Coach Cochran
probably..
but his actions showed more selfishness on his part than making sure the University’s interest were being taken care of.
"You stay bought into it when you see your opponent sucking air and physically failing and you're still fit and ready and you know you own his ass."- Corey Reamer speaking about Coach Cochran
Stallings always loved Bama.
But I’m not so sure about Shula. I don’t think when he was hired he had even been back to Bama since he graduated. I highly doubt you will ever see him in Tuscaloosa ever again…but I could be wrong.
I hate the NCAA more than UT & AU combined. At least with UT & AU you got a fighting chance.
I highly doubt you will ever see him in Tuscaloosa ever again
This I agree with it 100%…
I guess i named shula cause there was no reason (at least one that i know of) for him not to.
"You stay bought into it when you see your opponent sucking air and physically failing and you're still fit and ready and you know you own his ass."- Corey Reamer speaking about Coach Cochran
Today is your lucky day
i have never been more EMBARRASSED to be an alabama fan than i was then because of the whole brick + window incident.
All kidding aside, the brick thing never happened, at least not the popular version of the story.
If there was a guy on campus capable of hurling a brick from street level to the coach’s office window with enough force to break it, then the appropriate response by Curry should’ve been to run out and sign him as quarterback.
by TETRAGRAMMATON on May 19, 2010 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I must say...
nice post and nice feedback.
"Sympathy has expired Longhorns" WallaceWade04
by The Voice of Reason on May 19, 2010 8:26 AM CDT reply actions
I can read this all day.
wait i do read this all day.
"Sympathy has expired Longhorns" WallaceWade04
by The Voice of Reason on May 19, 2010 8:27 AM CDT reply actions
Post
Just excellent. This whole vein of discussion that embraces the character and competence of the coach and the chemistry he had with his assistants, the program in its entireity – this is getting down to the real core issues that lead to success or failure.
On Curry...
Curry is actually a very complicated examination, truth be told, and it doesn’t fit in as nicely into an easily understandable box like some other coaches do.
From the outset, he did have a good final record. A 26-10 record in three years is by no means shabby, and for all of the grief he gets over being unable to beat Auburn (who was admittedly damn good at the time), going 6-0 combined against Tennessee (Majors) and Penn State (Paterno) is very impressive. Furthermore, he did have us 10-0 and in the thick of national championship contention going into the Iron Bowl in 1989, never an easy thing to do. In that context, in terms of pure on-field success, Curry had a pretty successful tenure at Alabama.
Furthermore, he recruited really well. The core of the 1992 national championship team was signed by Bill Curry, and aside from Saban I don’t think there is much doubt that he was best recruiter we’ve had in the post-Bryant era. Also keep in mind that he did this while Auburn and Pat Dye were at their peak, and — as we later found out via 60 Minutes, among other sources — paying players in straight cash. That’s a level of recruiting success that shouldn’t go unappreciated.
Now, with that somewhat glowing critique of Curry established, by no means was his tenure all roses. Specifically…
While Curry did have a good degree of on-field success, when he inherited the program in 1987 it was in very good shape, featuring great talent, national recognition, and then-state-of-the-art facilities. Most ’Bama fans probably forget that the 1986 team was a massive disappointment, and was one that was expected by many to make a serious run at a national championship. Put in more concrete terms, no football coach worth his salt ought to have the first excuse when, upon walking into his first team meeting, he sees Derrick Thomas, Willie Wyatt, and Keith McCants staring back at him. Bottom line, Curry had success at Alabama, but quite frankly any coach should have won under those circumstances, and if anything Curry probably should have won more than he did.
More damning, though, with Curry was evident with his teams, which really always played with a high degree of inconsistency. We’d come out and lose to Memphis, then drill Tennessee, then squeak by Mississippi State, then smoke LSU in Baton Rouge, and then get annihilated by Notre Dame (see the 1987 season). A certain degree of variation in performance levels is to be expected, to be sure, but nothing like the wild swings that were common with Curry. Furthermore, Curry’s teams often played with a tepid nature in big games and key moments. In that regard, we looked a lot more like a Shula team than a Saban team under Curry. That alone is pretty damning.
Furthermore, as we found out later in his stint with Kentucky, you really do just have to wonder how good of a coach he was in the first place. He struggled at Georgia Tech, and when you watched him at Kentucky having Tim Couch run the veer, well, how can you really defend that? Curry spent 17 years as a head coach at big-time football programs, and in the 14 years he spent in Atlanta and Lexington, he managed to get north of six wins only one time (1985). In that sense, you really do have to wonder if he was just a bad coach all along who had a degree of success at Alabama only because of the fundamental strength of the program and the cyclical success the program was having at the time of his arrival.
The biggest problem with Curry was just one of institutional fit. I’ll be frank… for the life of me I’ll never understand why he took the Alabama job. He was a Georgia Tech alum, and he always viewed the Alabama fan base and the university itself with a very open aura of disrespect. The view on his end was always crystal clear: the University of Alabama, its administration, and its fans were fundamentally inferior to Curry and his Georgia Tech background. To that end, Curry treated UA in the same manner than a probation officer would treat one of his juvenile delinquents, and the clashes were inevitable. Again, why did he ever take the job in the first place? As dumb of a decision as it may have been for the UA administration to extend an offer to him, it was an even dumber decision on his end to accept it.
And really, that is why Curry left. He was not "run off" as many rival fans like to now proclaim. He bolted for Kentucky (Kentucky!) after a contract issue developed between him and UA (no small issue, admittedly) — specifically, UA wanted to limit his ability to hire and fire assistants — but in reality he was looking to get out any way he could. If it hadn’t have been bolting for Kentucky over the power to hire and fire assistants, it would have inevitably been bolting for another school over another issue. Again, all in all, it’s hard to even fathom a more terrible fit between a coach and an institution than Curry and Alabama. It was almost like an episode of Wife Swap, college football style.
"Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." -- Milton Friedman
by outsidethesidelines on May 19, 2010 4:41 PM CDT reply actions
A Bit Late To The Party........................
Just getting involved reading some of your detailed comments regarding several of the HC’s of the post Bryant era. Whereas I only disagreed with your assessment regarding Bill Curry as being the second best recruiting HC since Coach Bryant stepped down, I concur and appreciate the analysis you have made regarding both Dennis Franchione and Gene Stallings. To paraphrase Mike Dubose; “Things are not always as bad as they seem or as good as they appear”. I guess this pretty much sums up your comments regarding these 2 former HC’s.
As to Franchione, all I can say is that he didn’t “hold the rope”. Some people cut their losses and others gut it out. Your comments about character or lack thereof, would be very applicable in regards to his legacy at BAMA.
Personally, I don’t believe I have ever seen anyone be as objective in regards to a written analysis of Gene Stallings, the coach. My opinion of CGS as our HC is about the same and simply defined in 2 parts as the first 5 years and the remaining years. The first 3 years of his tenure was a lot of hard work which culminated in a well deserved NC. Year 4 was basically rebuilding and 1994 appeared to have all indications of another NC and confirmation that BAMA was back among the elite of college FB. Like 2008, the regular season was perfect but we ended up loosing to UF in the SEC CG on a coaching call that most likely cost us the game.
Unlike the Sugar Bowl of 2009, we came out a winner in our game against UNC but the UF loss appeared to have set a negative cloud over the program for which Stallings could not overcome.
Some might argue that CGS’s record as a HC was consistent in that he was usually successful in his first few years and would then start a down trend. Although this was the case at BAMA, there were some factors involved that were not entirely his own doing. Regardless, the bottom line is simply that the HC is ultimately responsible for the success of his program; regardless of any adversities that may affect it.
One last thing as a side note since you started a basic comparison of Coach Bryant to CNS and CGS, is that the similarities between Coach Bryant and CNS far outweigh those of any of the other HC’s that have come along since he stepped down in 1982. Most of us have great expectations of future greatness and NC’s for BAMA under CNS; although, he is at the same point where CGS was after the 1992 season. The difference, I honestly believe, is that he will continue doing the same things that were successful in obtaining his first 2 NC’s.
better late than never -
and i am enjoying reading your posts..
"You have to create 6 seconds of hell each play..."
Coach Nick Saban
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