Dre Kirkpatrick Gives Cause for Concern

only concerned.

It is way to early to be concerned about Dre or our secondary, who we haven’t even seen on the field yet.

Precisley….these guys haven’t even seen the feild and yet, they are our starting CB’s…if thats not at least a cause for concern then i don’t know what is.

…Scott and Kirkpatrick are better corners than Javy/Kareem/Marquis. You may prefer “well coached” talent that hasn’t seen a significant snap yet to known commodities, but I damn sure don’t.

Clearly we do not know the nature or extent of Kirkpatrick’s injury, and I tried to make that very clear in the original post. However, I do think that it’s a fairly safe assumption that this injury is not merely just a minor, touch-and-go situation. Again, injuries of that magnitude rarely require two surgeries in such a short period of time.

And you’re right, on a raw talent and size basis Arenas has nothing on either Kirkpatrick or Scott (or Milliner and Fulton for matter, and perhaps not even Phelon). But, of course, there is not necessarily a direct correlation between raw talent and size and on-field production. Game experience, scheme knowledge, technique, and consistency of performance play a huge factor, and that was the reason why guys like Javier Arenas and Marquis Johnson helped lead us to a national championship while much more talented players like Kirkpatrick and Scott rode the bench. It’s comforting to know these guys are very talented, of course, but it’s far from a guarantee of high performance.

And, finally, I think you are somewhat missing the point on the effect of injuries. Clearly injuries can affect any position at any time, no arguments there. The point, however, is that we are very thin in the defensive backfield — whereas we are very deep everywhere else (sans special teams) — and that means that injuries will have a much greater impact in the defensive backfield than anywhere else on the field. We can have some injuries on the defensive line and still perform at a very high level, but if it happens in the secondary the production is going fall like it just went off a cliff. The point is that the impact of all injuries are not created equal, that our secondary will disproportionately suffer from any injuries that may occur, and as I responded to Pete earlier, we aren’t going to need major injuries to so a drop-off here. Even a strained hamstring or a sprained ankle could cause some serious issues.

We have absolutely no information whatsoever. It could literally be anything.

Now, clearly, hopefully this was just an issue with scar tissue restricting the range of motion. That is obviously the best case scenario in this situation, a mere clean-up procedure to remove the excess scarring.

On the other hand, without trying to sound like a doctor when I’m clearly not, I do worry that may not be the case. Again, I’m no doctor, but I do know that scar tissue removal surgeries are generally minimally-invasive procedures with quick recovery times. That doesn’t really mesh with what (few) facts we have here. The little bit of information we have indicates that the surgery was done shortly after the A-Day game (i.e. late April) and that per Saban “probably in another couple of weeks he’ll be able to start running again.” Forget serious stress being put on the shoulder itself, that means the surgery was severe enough to keep Kirkpatrick from even running for roughly two solid months. Without trying to be pessimistic, that alone indicates to me that it was likely something more substantial than the removal of scar tissue.

Two surgeries on the same injury, one of them, as OTS pointed out, kept him from running (this is a shoulder injury) for months . . . yeah, we don’t have any reason at all to believe that the injury is more severe.

None at all.

However, speculating that a particular player’s injury may be more severe than the coaches have said, especially when, like here, there is not a particular reason to think so, is pointless and fruitless.

How is there not any particular reason to think so? He has already had two surgeries on the shoulder, had issues with instability all throughout his high school career, and the latest surgery has required almost complete immobility for a period of approximately eight weeks.

Now, admittedly, there is a great deal we do not know here. It may in fact not be a serious injury when all is said and done. On the other hand, though, to completely dismiss any suggestion that it could be serious based on what we know is just being hopelessly naive.

Well, the issue in many ways is that we don’t have a lot of information on the initial injury. Saban had this to say regarding that injury:

Another surgery came up during the briefing. Gadsden defensive back Dre Kilpatrick, among the most touted cornerback candidates in the nation, was in a sling as he committed to the Crimson Tide. Again, Saban said it was minor.

"I think that the surgery that Dre Kirkpatrick had, he actually wanted to do it," the coach said. "It’s usually a three-month rehab, something that needed to be done. He had had several occasions in high school where his shoulder came out.

"It’s not an unusual injury for football players, and I think it will certainly enhance his future career by getting it done. It’s not something that is usually an issue moving forward with a player’s career."

Basically, from what Saban said at the time, what Kirkpatrick had was reoccurring issues with shoulder instability. Now, obviously, we don’t know the extent of that and whether it was subluxation or what else. We’re still very much in the dark here.

The problem, I think, here is that surgeries for shoulder instability is (1) usually not minor, and (2) far from guaranteed to succeed. From what I’ve read, the success rate of surgery with patients with multi-directional instability is only around 50%, though it does get higher depending on how less severe the instability (but that’s counter-balanced by the fact that athletes in contact sports have far higher rates of recurrence). The concern I have here is that if this is the second surgery in this short of a span on this same injury, I’m afraid that probably means the first procedure was a failure, which may portend some bad things for exactly how the second surgery will ultimately pan out.

Jones apparently not being what we thought

He don’t know that yet sir.

Pehlon Jones. Since we are talking DB, and we only have a few DB’s I thought it would be obvious I was talking about transfer Phelon Jones who many thought might even start but now looks very shaky. Of course he could improve before Sept.

especially true freshmen, at DB scare me because if they get out of position it is 6 for the other team no matter what kind of pressure Dareus or Hightower is applying.

It has been a long time since Bama has been this young at DB. Talent can not make up for blown assignments.

And, freshmen will likely blow some assignments because it is a complicated system. Freshmen at LB may cost you a first down. Freshmen on the OL could cost you a sack. Freshmen at DB that is high stakes.

I know we played Jackson as a freshman (Kareem, not Star) but if you remember we were also 7-6 that year.

No one is saying we can’t field a team, just the team that will be fielded will have questions. You want to have optimism about the situation, that is entirely fine. But do not think you will go unchallenged in your opinions.

If history in other areas (QB/OL last year) has anything to show for us, it means the coaches will do what they can to make the DB situation roll as best as it can. Please pardon me if I’m concerned until it’s proven otherwise; I tend to be a realist as a Bama fan.

What about Arkansas has everyone so freaked out? Arkansas is a one dimensional team with no defense

Well, this will be their second season with the offense, and that’s a good situation for the Razorbacks. Their OL will know the blocking schemes better than last year. Their WR will know the hot routes/run better regular routes on passing plays/know blocking assignments on running plays. Mallet will have another year to mesh with everything. Does this translate into a situation where we can put blinders on and faithfully assume the outcome will be the same? No one will know until the game is over; I tend to think it’s going to be a chore with a defensive backfield that will be learning how to play together and trust each other. Who cares about the injury paradigm with those factors. The injuries would just be icing on the cake.

Now another thing that no one is addressing is the six opponents with bye weeks before playing us. Each week that progresses the opposing coaches will have more tape on how these guys act and how to exploit it. Yes, it will be up to CKS and CNS to have these players ready. The track record with other years does look good, but this is a whole new bunch of DBs on the starting roster. But the amount of rested opponents will be unprecedented for a team to face. There’s another uncertainty for all opinions to consider.

Welcome to the offseason; you’re going to have to get used to debate on opinions.

“There are no stupid questions, only stupid people.”

I believe that his surgery was minor and he will be fully recovered by camp.

Oh! Well! Why didn’t you say so?

If you believe it, I’m not sure why any of the rest of us should doubt it.