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The Average' Irish: Now with more hate.

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via blog.mlive.com
I would have loved to center this, stupid SBN CSS

Quick what do you think about when I mention the Notre Dame Fighting Irish? Touchdown Jesus? The Gipper? Frank Thomas (blessed be His name)?  Knute/Ara/Leahy/Lou? Home of the College Football Hall of Fame? Rudy? That ridiculous Leprechaun thing (the cheapest mascot in all of sports, hands down)?, Freek Bass? this guy? The doucher, bandwagon fans?

What if I told you that Notre Dame is a sham of a "power"? And that the "tradition" of the Irish mainly predates WWII for the most part, and that only three and a half decades have defined their "dominance?"

The purpose of this post is to show you that ND is actually merely an above average program during the best of times, and generally mediocre most of the time. More importantly, ND's relevance ended with Lou 20 years ago, and their historical "dominance" was a creation of Northeast media love, which likewise ended about 60 years ago.

 

***

Let's start our journey with an illustration of two teams' accomplishments over the past 30 years.

One team is a traditional national power, the other is more of a regional phenomenon. Both have strict student admissions policies. Both have had a legendary coach lead them at some point over the past thirty years. Both had a rough decade with several seasons at or below .500. And, as you guessed, one of these teams is Notre Dame. Who is who?

Team A: One Heisman Trophy, One National Championship, 221-124 (.659%) seven 10-win seasons, Bowl Record 7-13
Team B
: One Heisman Trophy, One National Championship, 267-107 (.713%) thirteen 10-win seasons, Bowl Record 10-13-1

Team A is Notre Dame. Would you be surprised to know that Team B is another private school, with demanding admissions policies and a strict student code of conduct? Yep, Team B is the BYU Cougars.
Surprising? It should shock absolutely no one. Well, it shouldn't shock anyone who actually digs deeper and realizes that Notre Dame has not, for most of the average viewer's lifespan, been relevant whatsoever.

 

***

But what about Notre Dame's wins? The second mostest evah?!  This is a wee bit deceiving. In fact, only three (arguably four) coaches, with a total of 45 years (out of 123 years) were responsible for nearly 400 (387) of those victories. For the other 80 years of ND's glory and tradition and "dominance", they won a grand total of 450 games...about 5-6 wins per season. 

ND has been playing football for 123 years. Want to know how many 10 win seasons they had? 15. That’s it. About one every 9 years. Who has the most? Oklahoma with 31, followed by Alabama with 30 (about once every 4 years). Notre Dame is tied with BYU for 10 win seasons, and neither are in the top ten.

Of those 15 ten-win seasons, Lou Holtz gave them half of them. In 7 years, he was responsible for fully half of ND’s great seasons.

Their Bowl record is a joke as well. ND has only appeared in 29 bowls. And, they have a losing record there (14-15). Before the rousing Hawaii Bowl victory, they hadn't won a bowl game since _1994_.

But what about Notre Dame's great coaches? No knock on these guys. They could flat out coach and win...four of them, in any event: Frank Leahy, Knute Rockne, Ara Parseghian and Lou Holtz (LOU?!)
Yes Lou.
Oh, sure, Ara Parseghian won two NCs and 95 games, while Leahy had four and Rockne three. But Sweet Lou only had one NC, the same as much-maligned Dan Devine. But, Lou was responsible for a grand total of 14% of NDs wins, at the time of his resigning. For all of the storied "tradition" of ND, Lou's 100 wins in 11 years are the most of any Irish coach since shortly after World War II, when Leahy retired in '53. And, they are second most _all time_  behind Rockne's record. But, for the 60 years after Leahy, ND would be, as they were for most of their existence, an average team most years.

But, what about the National Titles? ND claims 11, and has 8 wire service championships. Yes, yes they do....and  seven of them occurred on or before 1949. We will revisit these shortly.

But, but, Notre Dame has 7 Heisman trophies! Yes, yes they do...and six of 7 of them occurred on or before 1964. In the 45 years since John Huarte, long-considered one of the worst winners, took home the Stiff Armed guy, ND has produced but one trophy winner...33 years later when Tim Brown would claim the prize in 1987.

And, that leads to the Irish apple-polishing that the media has perpetually engaged in. It's no secret that for the first 40 years of CFBs existence, it was a Rust Belt/Midwest thing..at least as far as the Media was concerned. Southern teams had absolutely no clout, received no love, and damned near got no recognition, either as teams, or individuals. (arguably, it still is). That's why you see the Army and Minnesotas and Michigan States and, yes, Notre Dames of the world dominating the lists of All-Americans, Heismans and NCs until the modern era.

For instance, in addition to Huarte, amazingly, two other Irish "winners" are on the perennial Top 10 shitty Heismans: Johnny Lattner in 1953 and Paul Hornung, and are pure media creations. Lattner won in 1953, in a field with 5 other candidates from the Midwest, and would take the trophy over Alan Ameche. Hornung won in 1956, in a field with 6 other Midwesterners and would beat out Johnny Majors to become the 5th ND winner and the only winner on a losing team.  So, media love in the early era for ND? You could say that...at least to the extent of the Heisman.

But, what about ND's All-Americans? Notre Dame claims 99 concensus AAs, which is an impressive number (Alabama, of course, has 92). However, of ND's 99 AAs, a grand total of 18 are from the modern era (e.g., from 1950 to the present). That's it. 18.  Once the modern era began, and the media became national, and the sport became interconnected, it was discovered -- to the media's surprise, I'm sure --  that teams and players existed outside of South Bend.

 

***

Let's get back to those Championships:  I will start with a dirty secret the Notre Dame fan doesn't want to hear. These championships (like the AAs and Heismans) were -- in most years -- the product of an East Coast hype machine for the Midwest teams. And, like those accolades, died off as the world grew smaller and the glasses were no longer gold-colored. The last sad fact, is that in just about every year ND won a title, there were teams with an equal, if not greater, claim to the championship.

1924. Mr. Inside and Mr. Outside. There were other realistic contenders, of course, and some of them with an arguable claim.  Stanford was 7-0-1 beating then-undefeated USC; Alabama at one point was 7-0 (finished 8-1) outscoring its opponents 215-0; and Mizzou finished 8-1, losing the head-to-head to the Irish. But, the Irish got the nod after finishing 9-0

1929. This could have been a very crowded field: Notre Dame, Pitt, Purdue and Tulane _all_ finished undefeated (Purdue, until the Rose Bowl at least), and untied. Additionally, Nebraska had 1 loss, and SMU and TCU finished undefeated, but each had multiple ties. Who got the nod? Notre Dame. Some polls had a two-loss USC team as their NC. No southern team finished higher than the 10th, the undefeated Green Wave.

1930. By 1930, things had started to change in a big way, as the establishment media on the coasts laughably convinced the Tourney of Roses to invite some rednecks into the fray in 1927 (after the '26 season). We know how that turned out. In 1931's Rose Bowl, Alabama would blitz Wazzou, and that 10-0 Alabama team would split the NC with a 10-0 Notre Dame.

1943. The war is on, and the Southern boys are fightin' Nazis (Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Kentucky, Mississippi and Mississippi State, Tennessee and Vanderbilt did not have teams that year). That does not mean that football didn't happen. It certainly did, and there were some fine teams. There was one major undefeated that year: the Big 9 (Ten) staple Purdue. But, the one-loss field was very good and crowded: Iowa, Navy, Texas, Duke, Notre Dame and Michigan all finishing with one loss. In a WTF moment, ND is the unanimous champion (really?) Interestingly, Iowa split with ND, as the two teams played twice that year, each finishing 1-1. But, ND got the nod...even over an undefeated Big 10 school. The love continues.

1946. The Northeast media loves them some service academies, and loves them some Notre Dame apparently. That year, Army and Notre Dame would each finish with a tie...to one another. However, about 700 miles down the road, the Georgia Bulldogs finished undefeated (all of these are pre-bowl, remember), at 11-0, while undefeated UCLA was 10-1. What happened? Most of the wire services split their MNCs amongst Army and ND...undefeated UCLA was left out of the picture. And, undefeated Georgia only picked up one service who felt they were champs, the lowly Williamson system.

1947. More ND love. About 2/3rds of the services would give the nod to Michigan, but a third (including the big ones, the AP) would give the title to Notre Dame. These were, by no stretch, the only deserving teams. An undefeated Penn State team, and undefeated (but tied) Kansas and SMU teams got not one vote. Not one.

1949. A new dynasty is about to be born about 800 miles southwest, in a town called Norman, led by a guy named Bud Wilkinson. The Oklahoma Sooners would go undefeated that year. As would Notre Dame. There were two other unbeatens heading into the final poll: Cal and Pacific. Who would win the belt? In every single poll, except for one, Notre Dame would be the choice of the pollsters. Yet more love for the largest beneficiary of media gratis ever. It would get much, much worse. Then, we take a long vacation from relevance.

1966. We all know good and damned well what would happen in 1966. Notre Dame, which had a habit of chickenshitting out for ties, would do it again, and again be rewarded. This time, the infamous tie with Michigan State was the issue. If you read above, Notre Dame also pussed out in the 1946 tie with Army. At that point, twenty years earlier, an undefeated SEC team would get largely screwed then. This time was worse, as ND intentionally chewed up the clock and played for the tie. They played for the tie, and were still rewarded. An undefeated, untied Alabama team would not even have the benefit of one pollster voting them the MNC. Two thirds gave their vote to Notre Dame, the other third to Michigan State. The 1966 Alabama team was screwed, and it was yet another media-driven sham NC for Notre Dame.

1973. Of all seasons, this is the strangest and most crowded one. And, maybe the first truly undisputed time the Irish should have won since 1924. That year, a 10-1 Alabama team would take the UPI crown (which voted before bowl games), while Notre Dame (undefeated after a 1-point win over us) would get most of the votes. Undefeated (but tied) Oklahoma would take the title from three smaller pollsters. But, there were other teams with just as good a claim as OU; namely, undefeated Michigan and Penn State (both with a tie), received not one vote.

1977. Another year, another ND fuck job. Coming out of the bowls, there were four one-loss teams, all with a good stake to the NC. And, there was one team (ranked third) wearing crimson that had a great claim. #1 Texas lost to #5 ND 38-10. #2 Oklahoma got beat by #6 Arkansas, while #3 Alabama destroyed #8 Ohio State 36-6. But, ND (on the alleged strength of their win) vaulted Alabama (equally impressive), Texas and Arkansas (equally impressive). From 5th to 1st in the AP polls. Another split, as Alabama took one poll, and Notre Dame took every other single one. But what about Arkansas? The 'Hogs 25 point blasting of the #2 team in the country was apparently not good enough. And, even though they had a claim (with ND and Alabama), Arkansas received nothing. As usual, ND was the major recipient. Again. Then, we take another decade from relevance.

1988. After a decade of national irrelevance, ND rears its head again. This time in 1988 against the overmatched #2 West Virginia Mountaineers. ND had eked out a 1 point home win over #1 Miami that year and another home win against #9 Michigan. But what about the #2 team? As most folks in Tallahassee would be delighted to explain, the Irish were given a gift (well, chose a gift) by taking on WVU. The #2 team (at 11-1) was smacking its lips and waiting for the Irish in the Orange Bowl. And, the invite had been issued. However, that game would not be played, as ND declined the Orange Bowl bid, and did not play Florida State. So, as the last undefeated ND won the title; its second truly undisputed one (the first and only being in 1924).

 

***

So for Joe Montana, and the Clausen wad, for media love, for being the beneficiary of each and every single pollster judgment call; for "independence" (that let's you play service academies and Syracuse), for Mike Golic, for "decided schematic advantages", for the abomination known as Rudy; for your continued insistence on your relevance (despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary); for your insistence on your "historic domination" that was built on regionalism and favoritism; for your leprechaun; for your creepy totemic idolatry; for 1966; for your Kentucky-like bowl record; for your moping about academic standard hampering you (despite the fact that Wake, Stanford, Cal schools, some Big 10 schools, BC, and BYU all manage it); and for taking a Hall of Fame you don't deserve, and havent' deserved since 1949 (if then); I would like to extend a hearty *fuck you* to the University of Notre Dame.

 

Ed: fixed a shitload of typographical and grammatical errors. Added some stuff from the comments below.

 

 

 

 

Hate on, brothers and sisters.

FanPosts are just that; posts created by the fans. They are in no way indicative of the opinions of SBN and the authors of Roll Bama Roll.

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Last fun fact...

ND has been playing football for 123 years. Want to know how many 10 win seasons they had? 15. That’s it. About one every 9 years. Who has the most? Oklahoma with 31, followed by Alabama with 30 (about once every 4 years).

Notre Dame is tied with BYU for 10 win seasons, and neither are in the top ten.

Last one. Of those 15 10 win seasons, Lou Holtz gave them half of them. In 7 years, he was responsible for fully half of ND’s great seasons.

"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero

by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 17, 2010 11:37 PM CDT reply actions  

Wow! Now this is taking it up a notch...

this is real hate; Boise is looking like the trial separation and this is the bitch of an ex-wife. But, I’m with you 100%. Great historical info—and living off all that ancient history (recent history still twenty years ago as far as NC) the sham continues with ND having its own TV contract—renewed through 2015—and essentially being a conference within the framework of the BCS—they finish in the top 8 and they are in the BCS series; how the people deciding matters agreed to this when the BCS was created is astonishing. They must have thought of them as football royalty—very un-American concept. Big 10 people should certainly hate ND. Right in the heart of Big 10 country and feeding off Big 10 teams for scheduling forever, they have the arrogance not to join, refusing invites; Big 10 teams should refuse to play them—don’t give into that great rivalry bullshit—and let them find out how hard scheduling can get; if a new round of expansion comes up, Big 10 should make ND grovel and kiss some serious ass before letting them join. This Kelly is a good coach though and I would hate see him get them really competitive again.

by mjtig on Jul 18, 2010 4:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh yeah,

I very clearly acknowledge Frank Thomas…

"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero

by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 18, 2010 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

this wasn't criticism...

just enthusiastic emphasis.

Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.

by kleph on Jul 18, 2010 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Big 10 people should certainly hate ND. Right in the heart of Big 10 country and feeding off Big 10 teams for scheduling forever, they have the arrogance not to join, refusing invites; Big 10 teams should refuse to play them—don’t give into that great rivalry bullshit—and let them find out how hard scheduling can get

I couldn’t agree more.

by CarrotTop4 on Jul 18, 2010 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hobbits are better in Middle Earth

and Rudy’s story is better with the real facts:
1. Devine made the call (and insisted) on playing Rudy, not the team or fans or players or zany groundskeepers livin’ vicariously through Rudy
2. He was a walk-on who got a few snaps. Big deal. Then he pedaled all those lies and schmaltz as ‘fact’ for 15 years until someone would make the damned movie
3. Devine wasn’t the asshole, and neither was his dad. Both agreed to be portrayed as assholes to make Rudy look better (all written by Rudy, of course). And, he even made up a new asshole brother, Frank…who doesn’t exist.
4. He wasn’t a steel worker; he was a phone operator in the Navy and a power plant switchman.
5. Rudy wasn’t struggling, and living on cots, etc…he went to school on the GI Bill.
6. Rudy wasn’t a hobbit…he weighed 185 pounds.
7. About that jersey scene? The night before the big game? Well, let’s hear coach devine ""The jersey scene is unforgivable. It’s a lie and untrue. coming on the heels of ‘Under the Tarnished Dome’ (a book critical of the university’s football program). I don’t think it’s a very good thing for Notre Dame.""
8. and, the “carried off the field” thing is total bullshit, and every domer admits it.

Essentially, this guy is a self-absorbed egomaniacal walkon.

"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero

by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 18, 2010 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

They were leading by, what, 20?

Late in the 4th and they call an allout blitz. I’m supposed to find that awesome? Whatever, Jimmy Johnson.

There is fire at the travel agency.

by ReadingRambler on Jul 18, 2010 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

While all this may be true...

…it’s a damn fine movie.

"The North isn't a place. It's just a direction out of the South."
--Roy Blount, Jr.

by animalcracker on Jul 19, 2010 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rudy...

….was offsides.

Roll Bama Roll - The Champagne of Bama Blogs.

by Todd on Jul 18, 2010 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

This was a popular Tshirt when we played ND in 2007 in Happy Valley

although not as good as

They Have Jesus, we have JoePa, or
Charlie Weis Stole My Sandwich

Ia ora te natura, E mea arofa teie ao nei
Ua pau te maitai no te fenua, Re zai noa ra te ora o te mitie
SAVE THE GULF

by letsgopsu on Jul 18, 2010 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I love this hate. It flows through the veins of everyone, conference allegience be damned.

I got into an argument the other day saying that Temple was better than ND. Now I know I’m right.

@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor

by Jeff Junstrom on Jul 17, 2010 11:50 PM CDT reply actions  

Wow.

That is harsh. Even for me.

"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero

by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 18, 2010 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

My data/explanation.

LINKAGE

In no way am I saying the ND brand is better than Temple. I’m saying that an OOC schedule that includes ND in 2010 is actually worse than one that includes Temple, all else being equal.

@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor

by Jeff Junstrom on Jul 18, 2010 12:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

it's people like you...

that make it really hard to hate penn state.

Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.

by kleph on Jul 18, 2010 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm sure you'll find a way as September 11 approaches.

If you’d like, I could point out the irony of an Alabama post that questions another team’s claim to national championships.

I kid. Hate for Notre Dame is universal.

@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor

by Jeff Junstrom on Jul 18, 2010 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

we have a special commando operative...

we dispatch to handle attacks like that.

Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.

by kleph on Jul 18, 2010 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm sure you do. But I certainly don't want to relive that epic post from BSD a few months back.

So I’ll bring this back around to ND hate. Question – when do you think was the last time this man saw his penis, without the aid of a mirror or sketch artist?

@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor

by Jeff Junstrom on Jul 18, 2010 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.

by kleph on Jul 18, 2010 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm just sayin'. Charlie Weis was an awful person/coach.

Best Weis nickname – Pear Bryant (though that gives Weis too much credit for even mentioning the name Bryant).

@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor

by Jeff Junstrom on Jul 18, 2010 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

If you’d like, I could point out the irony of an Alabama post that questions another team’s claim to national championships.

No worries. I cringed a little with the same thought as I read this. But then my hate for ND helped me get over it. :)

by CarrotTop4 on Jul 18, 2010 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

I have a hard time hating Penn State

State College is just a really cold Kentucky. Jo Pa is awesome. They have awesome traditional unis.

But, as September 11 approaches, we can always throw this at them.

/Ohgodmyeyes

"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero

by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 18, 2010 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

You'll learn.

He is my BSD nemesis. He loves Duke. Boo him.

There is fire at the travel agency.

by ReadingRambler on Jul 18, 2010 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Also, don't forget the Lakers.

That’s TWO basketball championships this year for THIS fan.

@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor

by Jeff Junstrom on Jul 18, 2010 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

really?

a fan of Puke AND the Fakers? i just lost all respect.

btw, i’ll take one football championship over two basketball championships any day

by 8sp0rts8 on Jul 31, 2010 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why would you hate Penn State??

I mean, aside from them handing us a few losses in the 80s I’ve got nothing but respect for them.

by CarrotTop4 on Jul 18, 2010 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

SITP...

…is sparing no one in the fanshots. He slaughters giants and newbies without discrimination.

RollBamaRoll.com - Also check out my music blog: Hear the World, which is exploring the music of BULGARIA in July 2010.

by Nico2.0 on Jul 17, 2010 11:53 PM CDT reply actions  

After spending 8 hours at a chuck-e-cheese, I was pretty fired up for something with aggression.

"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero

by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 18, 2010 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Seems like a perfect storm.

I spent the night with the wife (UM grad) and another UM grad discussing how/why Rich Rodriguez is a decent guy. I’m ready to explode with anger sound reasoning.

@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor

by Jeff Junstrom on Jul 18, 2010 12:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

that is a BAD night

Ia ora te natura, E mea arofa teie ao nei
Ua pau te maitai no te fenua, Re zai noa ra te ora o te mitie
SAVE THE GULF

by letsgopsu on Jul 18, 2010 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

at least your wife wasn't getting makeup tips from Rita.

"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero

by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 18, 2010 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

now that's not fair...

she’s doing an important service by preserving an almost lost procedure.

Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.

by kleph on Jul 18, 2010 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Holy hell! I'd never actually seen that woman before, so I googled it.

I’m not going to post the pic, as it would make a blind man blush. So go here at your own peril.

@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor

by Jeff Junstrom on Jul 18, 2010 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

We've seen it...

In fact, one of our media shit-stirrers made ours a hostile environment before he signed the K. Thank you, Paul Feinbaum.

"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero

by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 18, 2010 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

source material

here and here.

"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero

by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 18, 2010 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

To hell w chuck-e-cheese's

And their 2 beer limit

"Yeah, it's Tennessee, that's the way it is sometimes." - Corey Zickefoose, Pulitzer Prize winner and robbery victim

"This is not the end. This is the beginning." - The Great and Powerful Saban

by Thomas Walker Esq on Jul 19, 2010 1:57 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

The thing that kills me about ND fans is the Mike Garrett line

“you’re just jealous”. Bull and shit. How about the fact that ND has screwed folks from one end of the country to another: Just off the top of my head, the following teams have the best claims to MNCs that ND got: Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Nebraska, Iowa, Texas, Oklahoma, UCLA, Cal, Penn State, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, USC

And ND wonders why they are despised?

"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero

by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 18, 2010 12:01 AM CDT reply actions  

Speaking of '46 Georgia

I wonder if the Dawgs are as psychotically pissed about ’46 as we are ’66?

"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero

by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 18, 2010 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Probably not as much.

Less people around today remember it. Sure, I wasn’t alive in ’66, but it was passed down directly to me by people that felt slighted by it.

RollBamaRoll.com - Also check out my music blog: Hear the World, which is exploring the music of BULGARIA in July 2010.

by Nico2.0 on Jul 18, 2010 12:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

It still kills me

that he burned 10 minutes off the clock, and played for the tie, rather than even trying to win the game…reasoning that the Irish would get lucky if they had a tie. And, that calculation was correct. Gutless by all involved.

"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero

by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 18, 2010 12:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

I really don't know which sucks worse:

the fact that he did it, or the fact that he was right.

by CarrotTop4 on Jul 18, 2010 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Still have not figured out links in comments...

read the Missing Ring and all will be explained or if you have a dad old enough just ask them what was the load of BS in 1966. My dad to this day (he just turned 78) is still more pissed about that season than anything else that has happened with Alabama.

I understand hate. I'm a Alabama fan.

by Destindune on Jul 18, 2010 6:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Don't forget this abomination

We are ND! We are Notre Dame!

What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.

-Hank Hill

by Zoltar on Jul 18, 2010 12:55 AM CDT reply actions  

I don't believe he forgot...

Freek Bass is mentioned. God help us all.

It's not what you've done but what you are doing that matters.

And the roses in this grand ol' stadium are once again Crimson. - Eli Gold, CTSN Broadcast of the BCS Championship Game at the Rose Bowl, 1-7-2010

by AlabamaJammer on Jul 18, 2010 1:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

w...t.....f.....

just for posting that shit you get a one day ban..

"You stay bought into it when you see your opponent sucking air and physically failing and you're still fit and ready and you know you own his ass."- Corey Reamer speaking about Coach Cochran

by bammer on Jul 18, 2010 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

BHGP found out

the truth about that video, and it’s a doozy.

"Yeah, it's Tennessee, that's the way it is sometimes." - Corey Zickefoose, Pulitzer Prize winner and robbery victim

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." - Dean Martin

by Thomas Walker Esq on Jul 22, 2010 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

centering photos in fanshots

to center a photo in a fanshot you go to the html window and insert the image. then highlight all that code and put it in a paragraph. then, go to the initial < p > (spaceless, of course) and add =“center” so the code within the arrows looks like this < p =“center” > (without the spaces by the arrows).

if you want to add a comment under the photograph, just add a break command before the closing piece of code for the paragraph. then write your text, center it, italicize it, and there you go.

also, if you use a photo from another source, please provide where it originates (something the sb nation photo system does automatically (like in your effort above).

Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.

by kleph on Jul 18, 2010 7:09 AM CDT reply actions  

Thanks!

"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero

by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 18, 2010 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

i hate ND…and you’ve now given me more reasons but I just don’t like disclaiming other teams NC’s…especially when more than a few of ours are a tad scetchy..Its not that I don’t agree that many of their claims are a stretch but we are opening a can of worms if we start calling other teams titles as bogus..Especially when its widely thought that Bama went back and back-counted a few after ND did the same.

"You stay bought into it when you see your opponent sucking air and physically failing and you're still fit and ready and you know you own his ass."- Corey Reamer speaking about Coach Cochran

by bammer on Jul 18, 2010 8:48 AM CDT reply actions  

It's not that theirs are illegitimate

The fact was that 8 or 9 of those championships were:
1. on the serious receiving end of serious pollster gratis, largesse, whatever you want to call it.
2. the product of regionalism and bias against teams not playing in the Midwest/Northeast
3. Occurred in years when they had ties/losses, there were other undefeateds or teams with equal or better resumes, and the Irish got the nod, despite teams with better resumes.

I will be the first to admit that 1973 should probably be ceded to ND, and we’ll take 1966.

"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero

by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 18, 2010 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not a ND guy, but have to admit Brian Kelly is the shit

Like Alabama, Notre Dame has been hurt by bad hires. Faust, Davie, Willingham, and Weis all sucked. There’s still a lot of potential there.

Faust – a former high school coach…I know he built a dynasty in one of the toughest high school football beds anywhere, but this was still an idiotic hire.

Davie – their Mike DuBose

Willingham – a Titanic mistake, hired after Bill O’Reilly got fired.

Weis – an NFL OC who couldn’t develop players.

Holtz was a great fit and Brian Kelly is a certified badass when it comes to player development, details, and precision offense. Like Boise State—who use a similar offense—he runs a tough program and pays attention to details. I’m really looking forward to watching some of the SC/Notre Dame games in coming years.

Programs suffer when they hire the wrong guys and Notre Dame has hired several of them.

www.totteringworld.com

by Bamagrad on Jul 18, 2010 10:26 AM CDT reply actions  

They actually have a pretty long history of hiring stinkers

pre-Rockne; post-Leahy; post-Lou. Like I said though, it’s about 75-80 years of bad-to-mediocre teams, 15-20 very good seasons, and about 10-12 great seasons.

"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero

by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 18, 2010 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Kelly will be faced with several issues he has not previously faced

First, he’s had athletes equal to or better than his competition at Central Michigan and Cincinnati. At ND he’s going to regularly face some teams that have better athletes.

When Notre Dame won in the past football was a little different, and Holtz bent the rules to get guys like Rickey Watters into ND. They’re not going to be able to get as many of those guys now unless Kelly bends the rules and I don’t think he will. He’s probably banking on his ability to develop players which means their signing classes will probably look a lot like the ones brought in by Virginia Tech (except Kelly focuses more on offense). He’s known as a relentless recruiter but he probably won’t target a lot of the guys somebody like Lane Kiffin would target.

www.totteringworld.com

by Bamagrad on Jul 18, 2010 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Kelly is a good coach,

Maybe not a great one. His “turnaround” of Cincy wasn’t that miraculous. He inherited a loaded roster of defensive players in ’08 and offensive players in ’09. But, Cincy was a 7-8 win team for the decade before his arrive, with only two losing seasons.

Also, he was the beneficiary of some help in the Big East, taking over when the following were occurring: Syracuse becoming dreadful, Petrino leaving and L’ville becoming awful, RR leaving and WVU slipping.

We’ll see.

"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero

by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 18, 2010 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

I did give kudos to NDs coaches

the 4 great guys were just that, great. 3 of them are iconic.

"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero

by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 18, 2010 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

One correction: Penn State did not have a tie in 1973.

But we did not win the title because we were a weakling “Eastern team” or whatever, even though we had the Heisman winner and even though we beat LSU.

But don’t let me distract from ND hate.

There is fire at the travel agency.

by ReadingRambler on Jul 18, 2010 12:36 PM CDT reply actions  

Going through

archival footage for 5 hours after a day of Check-E-Cheese undoubtedly blurred my vision. As fast as I was trying to work it still took all night.

Thanks, I’ll correct it.

"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero

by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 18, 2010 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

well done, sir

well done. it is a wonderful refresher course for the young-in’s who have NO CLUE why we hate ND. why do they have no clue? because ND has been a good joke for most of their lives. why do we hate them so much? you post has made me remember well.

i remember watching the game in ‘73 on tv. even though i was only 11, i already bled crimson and many tears were shed in our den. by the time the freakin’ poll vault occurred in ‘77 the ND hate had been seething for 4 years and when i wore my bama jersey to school (9th grade) EVEN THEN people knew not to try and have a conversation with me about football if they had any disparaging remarks about Alabama. needless to say, i full-on hated notre dame when i arrived on campus in 1980. our loss that year to the irish at legion field is burned into my memory for many reasons which only fueled the fire of my hatred – i can still see the damn lights bouncing off the players glittering golden helmets when they took every tv time-out opportunity to turn to the crowd and wave their #1 fingers in the air, can still hear the little notre dame bitch sitting behind me in the student section whose high-pitched cheer ’go notre dame’ every minute ‘bout sent me over the edge (NO exaggeration and possibly the closest i have come to kicking a stranger’s ass for just being ANNOYING), and can still smell the pancakes at sambo’s where i sat and ate breakfast on sunday morning reading the sports page headline ‘0-4’. i cried for the bear that day (SHUT OUT AT HOME???) and for me (cuz DAMN IT i wanted to be a student for the elusive NC 3-peat) and although i’m sure our victory (FINALLY) in ‘86 put a smile on his face, i would REALLY like for Kelly to bring them back from ’who gives a shit’ so we can pound those irish fuckers again.

(‘scuze the cursing – there’s just no way to discuss notre dame without it)

"You have to create 6 seconds of hell each play..."
Coach Nick Saban

by LittleSis on Jul 18, 2010 12:40 PM CDT reply actions  

great post

my grandma was a catholic school teacher in Birmingham and then later in Mesa, AZ. she had a program from that game (86 win over ND) and a ball with the score on it. she HATED noter dame, and so, i honor her memory every time i say “fuck notre dame!!!”….

The beauty of The Process is that you have never arrived, so you get to continue being perpetually awesome... -Espyonage

by tempebamafan on Jul 18, 2010 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

sounds like Frank Leahy would make a great soccer coach…

"You have to create 6 seconds of hell each play..."
Coach Nick Saban

by LittleSis on Jul 18, 2010 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

rec’d. They play for ties and fake injuries. Leahy would be a god in Europe. FML for living here.

"We knew we had to turn it up or we would get beat. We ripped the knob off. We turned it up so much we broke the knob." - Roy Upchurch after beating Florida in the 2009 SEC Championship Game

by bearbryantwonit on Jul 22, 2010 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

linking to fanhouse

is an automatic banning…

The beauty of The Process is that you have never arrived, so you get to continue being perpetually awesome... -Espyonage

by tempebamafan on Jul 19, 2010 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm new here....

There is fire at the travel agency.

by ReadingRambler on Jul 20, 2010 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

it's a halfway serious joke

a proposed rule that got lots of recs and and "lol"s in the “official RBR automatic banning thread” which was actually not official, but was quite funny.

The beauty of The Process is that you have never arrived, so you get to continue being perpetually awesome... -Espyonage

by tempebamafan on Jul 22, 2010 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

1930. By 1930, things had started to change in a big way, as the establishment media on the coasts laughably convinced the Tourney of Roses to invite some rednecks into the fray in 1927 (after the ’26 season). We know how that turned out.

1926 (after the ’25 season) was the first Rose Bowl for us.

by CarrotTop4 on Jul 18, 2010 1:36 PM CDT reply actions  

I had that at first...

I don’t know why I changed it…typin’ while drankin’

"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero

by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 18, 2010 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

When I was clerking

Fridays were “cocktail Fridays”. And at 10:00 a.m., I’d meet my judge in chambers and we’d have a variety of libations, then eat lunch at noon, and call it a day.

I miss government work.

"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero

by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 18, 2010 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

A lawyer?

Go figure. I passed the PA bar last summer. Huzzah!

@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor

by Jeff Junstrom on Jul 19, 2010 6:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

RBR crawls with lawyers

Like head lice

"Yeah, it's Tennessee, that's the way it is sometimes." - Corey Zickefoose, Pulitzer Prize winner and robbery victim

"This is not the end. This is the beginning." - The Great and Powerful Saban

by Thomas Walker Esq on Jul 19, 2010 2:04 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Same with BSD. Must be a byproduct of being bored in class for at least 7 years.

Without BSD and other blogs, I would have had to actually pay attention in Property, Contracts, and Commercial Transactions.

@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor

by Jeff Junstrom on Jul 19, 2010 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

or earn our pay.

"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero

by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 19, 2010 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

only without the charm

head lice without the charm. However, we’re always good for asshole comments? I understand the internet is lacking in those.

"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero

by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 19, 2010 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jose Cuervo

When you absolutely positively have to make every typo in the book, accept no substitutes. ;)

by CarrotTop4 on Jul 18, 2010 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

thansk Stuck

this is a topic i’m on board with. down with ND cause they really suck, and cause of ’66.

The beauty of The Process is that you have never arrived, so you get to continue being perpetually awesome... -Espyonage

by tempebamafan on Jul 18, 2010 7:24 PM CDT reply actions  

Good job.

I liked Rudy, but I hate ND.

I seriously doubt they will return to glory until they get in the Big 10. There was a day when the ruled football, when they called the shots- the 66 go for a tie is proof of that. I mean why would they get it over MSU, much less Bama? Because of their name.

Furthermore, in 50’s, and while the South was still segregated, college football was largely a middle class game played by kids whose parents went to college or whose parents had built solid middle class lives. Many of these kids (escpecially if they were Catholic) had always wanted to go to ND and back then they could get those kids by the boatload.

Today, thank goodness, there is no more segregation. Todays game is played largely by kids whose parents did not go to college and have never even heard of ND. USC can still draw those kids in because they have Hollywood. Notre Dame just has a golden dome- so what?

That is why, for the most part, the powers in college football will now be state univerisities. Kids with poor backgrounds can relate better to the student body at a state university. Not saying a private school will never win big time (because USC has), but if I were a really fast kid living in rural MS, I’d rather go to MSU, Ole Miss, Bama or LSU. ND would hold nothing for me.

So, regardless of Kelly, I just don’t look for ND to do much until they at least join the Big 10.

As much as I hate Auburn I hate Tenn. that much more.

by 5026 on Jul 18, 2010 10:27 PM CDT reply actions  

Started to make this a fan shot

But with all the ND hate, I’ll post here. (And can’t believe no one else has posted it yet)

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5388648

This isn’t on the level of Tennessee or Georgia lately. Who isn’t guilty of underage drinking in college? But still……

Roll Tide!

by rolltidefromaz on Jul 18, 2010 10:33 PM CDT reply actions  

Quit beating around the bush...

…and tell us how you really feel….

"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban

by NiceLittleSaturday on Jul 19, 2010 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bloody papists!

Down with Fawkes!

There is fire at the travel agency.

by ReadingRambler on Jul 19, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Notre Dame is more embarrassing to Catholics than Mel Gibson.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!

by Poseur on Jul 22, 2010 1:18 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

agreed

The beauty of The Process is that you have never arrived, so you get to continue being perpetually awesome... -Espyonage

by tempebamafan on Jul 22, 2010 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can't hate them . . .

. . .because the school has mismanaged the hiring of coaches for so long that I pity the guys who go there. My brother in law was a tight end at Notre Dame and thinks they deserve every bad thing that happens to them because the admin and alums screw with the coaches and team and cause all their problems. I do wish some honest reporter would have categorized their sins and caused all their recruits to dry up, but college sports dollars loves them some Notre Dame because the mythology sells.

I like Kelly though, and I want them undefeated when we play them in South Bend. They can win out after us, too for all I care.

Regardless of how good/bad either team is, pull for my Utes, won’t you come November?

As for playing Florida State for the title? Notre Dame got hosed the same way, having to settle for a shot at Texas A&M in the cotton bowl as the lesser ranked team to Florida State even though they beat the hell outta Florida State that year and lost a very close game to a fine Boston College Rival. Yet the desire for college ball to glorify Bowden was more important that year. So, that title and FSU thing swings two ways. Bowden’s team had some mismatches of their own in their glorious years.

I also think if we review anyone’s storied past? We wouldn’t care much about any team’s so-called tradition from what we learned about how many teams in certain conferences cheated like hell to win, such as paying players? I mean, in terms of “always honest” teams with amazing traditions how many are there? Aint any in the former SWC, that’s for damned sure, how about the SEC?

So, when we talk about who is entitled to claim a great past that has no qualifiers, I’d not ask for too many asterisks or clearer histories to be published in college ball if I were in certain conferences.

I think it is what it is, and Notre Dame’s traditional aura is also what makes college ball special to all of us—college kids playing their guts out and winning a big game against the odds.

I reckon we can hate what they’ve become without hating what they are over-used to symbolize. It is tiresome to hear about them in seasons like Alabama’s and Utah’s 2008 seasons—I mean, we were the cardiac kids and the underdogs that year but for about 3/4 of the year it is all USC, ND, and for god’s sake . . .when will people quit thinking that Michigan has to be special in order for college ball to mean anything again?

So, yeah. Emphasize what the college game means and fix the stupidity that some teams labor under that because of the great 1934 season they should be perrenially ranked.

But hatred? Come now, enlightened people reserve actual hatred for Tennessee, Auburn and BYU.

by Aardvark on Jul 23, 2010 11:34 AM CDT reply actions  

Delineating National Championships

The more I read about college football history, the more it seems that it needs a – for lack of better analogy – B.C. / A.D. split. MNCs from the 1920s to 1950 seem to be in a class of their own, with little relevance to the football that is played today. On first blush, I would draw the line at integration, because the presence of black athletes has dramatically changed the game myriad respects. Topically, this cuts against Notre Dame, who has not been all too relevant in the post-integration era (sans Lou Holtz).

Is that idea loopy? Any other thoughts on where to draw the line?

XBL Rep: 96% avoided you.

by Hillbilly Lawya on Jul 23, 2010 2:30 PM CDT reply actions  

Agreed

There were many problems with the “glory years” of football. Utah had a few teams that would have stood out for everyone if teams outside teh northeast got any press through about 30-40 years. It screams for clarification.

by Aardvark on Jul 23, 2010 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well done. A little surprised at the mediocrity in South Bend. Guess I’ve been buying the hype.

by bamanooga on Jul 26, 2010 12:13 AM CDT reply actions  

Lou Love

Great article btw!

You seem to give lots of kudos to Holtz, and he did accomplish quite a bit at ND, so I understand.

BUT… Lou Holtz forever marred his reputation with me when he lobbied for the NC that year that Miami beat them. He actually had the gall to suggest that ND should be ranked ahead of Miami when the Hurricanes beat them earlier that season. I’m certainly no Hurricanes fan (I was at the ‘92 NC game, and I still get chills), but I’m very glad the pollsters saw it differently. It’s one thing to advocate for your team, quite another to be completely stupid about it!

And now we have to put up with his stammering on ESPN. Grrrrr…

"No man, I majored in Jounalism, it was easier" Joe Namath answering a reporter who asked if he majored in basket weaving

by Slow Hand Row on Jul 28, 2010 12:38 PM CDT reply actions  

When you...

…talk as incessantly as Holtz does, a lot of stupid things are bound to come out along the way….

"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban

by NiceLittleSaturday on Jul 28, 2010 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's not just Holz

There are few talking heads on sports I can take seriously. When I see that smug ass Craig James I shoot the TV.

by Aardvark on Jul 31, 2010 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Whydidjya...

…hafta say Craig James? I just spit up in my mouth a little….

"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban

by NiceLittleSaturday on Jul 31, 2010 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

I met that prick

Waited on him once. His friend, Freddy Couples, was a great guy. James was a dickhead.

by Aardvark on Jul 31, 2010 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Holtz prior to the BCSNCG: “I think Alabama is the better team but I think Texas will win it because they want it more.”

Well, 1 for 2 is alright, I guess.

"We knew we had to turn it up or we would get beat. We ripped the knob off. We turned it up so much we broke the knob." - Roy Upchurch after beating Florida in the 2009 SEC Championship Game

by bearbryantwonit on Jul 31, 2010 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah...

…the whole night I kept watching Mark and Trent run and thought, “They just don’t want it enough….”

"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban

by NiceLittleSaturday on Jul 31, 2010 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Judging by the

Texas offensive line-play, they didn’t want it at all !

"...because you've got your mind right, and that's the way we like it." Nick Saban

by SRGBama on Jul 31, 2010 4:17 PM CDT reply actions  

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