Agentgate: How Far Does It Go?
One of the players currently at the center of the Agentgage investigation is South Carolina tight end Weslye Saunders. Unlike high-profile players such as Marcell Dareus and Marvin Austin, Saunders is a bit of an unknown player around the rest of the SEC and the nation as a whole, so a bit of background information would perhaps be useful.
Saunders signed with South Carolina in the 2007 recruiting class out of Durham, North Carolina, and came to Columbia sporting four-star prospect ratings and a solid offer list. He excited many observers with his impressive physical build, weighing in at roughly 6'5 and 270 pounds. As a true freshman, he snagged 12 catches for 151 yards, and he followed that up as a sophomore by snagging another 16 catches for 214 yards. Last year, he had a bit of a "breakout" campaign, bringing in 32 catches for 353 yards and three touchdowns (i.e. slightly more than the numbers Colin Peek amassed). He considered leaving early for the NFL Draft after his junior season, but ultimately decided to return as a senior. Furthermore, as an additional note, Saunders has a few character flags. His eyes have apparently been on the NFL since arriving in Columbia, and he was suspended earlier this year for missing a team meeting and having a poor attitude.
And that is the type of player that the agent-in-question was breaking all of the rules to sign?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to criticize Saunders as a player mind you. He has potential and draft stock is notoriously volatile. But even so, Saunders is not that kind of prospect. Players like Marcell Dareus and Marvin Austin are easily potential top five draft picks, and accordingly are players that could earn guaranteed contracts of above 40 million dollars. It's not intended as a shot at someone like Saunders, but frankly he is simply not at that level. Perhaps with a good senior season and an impressive combine workout he fights his way into the latter stages of the first round, but based on what we have seen out of him so far that is probably his ceiling at the moment. And, obviously, late first round tight ends don't get 40 million plus guaranteed, they get more like eight or nine million, thus making an agent's three-percent commission rate a fraction of what you would receive from signing someone like Dareus or Austin.
Simply put, signing a guy like Dareus or Austin is a career-making deal for an agent, one that can instantly transform you from a nobody to a power player. That one signing alone will net a potential agent well over a one million dollar windfall in and of itself, and doing a 40 million plus deal for a high-profile prospect brings a slew of additional clients (and money) along with it. But for a guy like Saunders? There you likely get a couple hundred thousand and no one notices moving forward. Thus, in effect, a sleazy agent probably has sufficient incentive to run the risk of breaking all the rules to get a guy like Dareus or Austin, but you wouldn't think the incentives would be high enough to justify the risk for someone like Saunders. Right?
Nevertheless, apparently Saunders was involved in the now infamous South Beach party as well. And that begs the question... if whoever orchestrated all of this was willing to break all the rules to get someone like Weslye Saunders, then who else could be involved? Rationally speaking, I imagine if you are willing to believe that he did this for Saunders, odds are he would have done it for just about any legitimate draft prospect out there. So exactly how far could this thing go?
Now, I'm not going to name any specific names simply because it would serve no purpose at best and would at worst perhaps wrongly accuse innocent parties. Nevertheless, the underlying point remains. Furthermore, while again I'm not going to make specific reference to any particular player aside from those already named, it doesn't take a rather lengthy perusal of the Internetz to find several more names floating around regarding players who may have also been in attendance (and by that I am not referring to Alabama players).
Furthermore, on a note driven by common sense, keep in mind that this was a party. Consider that for a moment from the perspective of your own experience. This get-together was apparently on the swanky side, hosted at a high-end South Beach hotel. To date, though, we really only have a handful of names as likely attendants, basically Dareus, Saunders, and a couple of guys from North Carolina. But it was party. Now, let me ask you, based on your own personal experience, how many parties did you attend in your formative years where only a handful of people showed up? Even those with a bad social life probably attended few parties that small; hell, it takes more people than that these days to play a video game on Xbox Live. Are we really supposed to legitimately believe that the agent-in-question went through all of this expense and trouble to only host about four or five players? I tend to think not. I imagine the odds are that there were several more players in attendance than have not yet been publicly identified.
Rivals fan have been pretty quiet during this ordeal, and with good reason. As someone wrote on Twitter recently, no one wants to make jokes until they are certain that a player from their school is not involved, and at this point I think the intuitive feeling with most is that their school could very well be next. Admittedly we don't know for certain how far Agentgate goes, but I imagine the smart money for now is on its scope being wider than is currently being reported.
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What do agents have to lose?
The OTS says:
Thus, in effect, a sleazy agent probably has sufficient incentive to run the risk of breaking all the rules to get a guy like Dareus or Austin, but you wouldn’t think the incentives would be high enough to justify the risk for someone like Saunders. Right?
The reward may not be high; but what are the risks for an agent?
They'll send you to Agent Jail.
Even better than Club Fed, they say. No slap on the wrist! no sternly-worded letters even!
Unless and until there’s a real downside or punishment of some substance that goes with breaking all the rules, agents will still operate under the Good Ol’ Golden Rule*.
*not the Good Book one
If you get caught screwing a kids eleigibility
you shouldn’t be going to white collar resort prison. No, no, no. You should go to Federal-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison.
by Bumpjon on Jul 21, 2010 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The reward may not be high; but what are the risks for an agent?
Simple… many states have passed statutes outlawing this, and you can get banned from representing clients by the NFLPA. Any agent doing this has a hell of a lot to lose.
And while you may already be breaking the rules for high-profile kids, as Zoltar mentions, each additional kid you bring along is going to increase the chances of you getting caught, so there is still that consideration in play. Even if you are cheating for high-profile kids, you’re not going to cheat for a lesser kid if it really increases the odds of you getting caught. Self preservation comes first.
"Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." -- Milton Friedman
by outsidethesidelines on Jul 21, 2010 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions
But if that middling guy...
was good friends with the high-profile guy and could possibly get him to go to said party you might just take that chance. Seems like all these guys named are friends of each other.
Yeah, that's my thought on why Saunders might've been involved,
as bait to help get the other guys there. But as OTS says, that does increase the chances of getting caught.
Naming names!
So, did all this name-dropping originate with the N. Carolina investigation…? First school or guy on the hot seat starts singing like a bird?
It can’t be long now till the entire guest list comes out.
According to The Bylaw Blog, this is a function, mainly, of the NCAA’s division on agents starting to get a critical mass of knowledge about who’s who and how this stuff all works. If that’s the case, we can expect to see a) more of this shit coming down the pike in the very near term and, hopefully, b) less of it going on long-term as agents and players figure out it’s not worth it.
I'm wrong all the time.
by PeteHoliday on Jul 21, 2010 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Of course they sing.
If Dareus is smart, he’s giving names, pictures and DOBs. Cooperation is you’re only way out. Dez Bryant not being upfront cost him his last year and more than a few million dollars.
Some people say "If you can't beat them, join them". I say "If you can't beat them, beat them", because they will be expecting you to join them, so you will have the element of surprise.
by BamaHadMeAtHello on Jul 21, 2010 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
*your
Some people say "If you can't beat them, join them". I say "If you can't beat them, beat them", because they will be expecting you to join them, so you will have the element of surprise.
by BamaHadMeAtHello on Jul 21, 2010 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions
State Laws
Could the variation between state laws be the reason that the party was thrown in Fla?
It seems like the NFL is really going to have to self-involve to make a big difference in the way the agent game works.
I think it has more to do with the beach scene in Fl rather than the laws.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
Yeah, I doubt the debate between whether to have it in South Beach or in Chapel Hill
lasted very long. LOL
But I do wonder which state’s laws apply.
Not just a party... its a recruiting event
I have a hard time getting my knickers in a bunch over a recruiting event, considering many of us were recruited in a similar way when we were in school. I was flown out to a swanky event and stayed in a hotel I couldn’t afford when I was in law school, and then I went back to being a poor 2L who could barely make rent. It’s like the NCAA expects athletes to operate in a way that no other student would.
I think being flown to a professional recruting event should not amateur status provided that A) you don’t sign anything and B) you don’t receive an asset. There’s a large difference between being put up in anice hotel for a weekend while an agent makes their pitch and receiving a rent-free house. Some sort of distinction needs to be made in the rulebook.
I don’t know, I just think it’s unfair to suspend a guy for the year (I know that hasn’t happened yet, but it might) for doing something the average business school student can do with no penatly is absurd (and actually, if the regualr student was flown out to a recruiting event in their respective field, it is commonly viewed as a GOOD thing).
This event actually passes my smell test. I don’t understand what is wrong with it. The problem is with the NCAA on this one.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
Good points for sure, but I can understand why the NCAA doesn’t want to allow that kind of thing because it puts you on a slippery slope.
And these agents are welcome to wine and dine the players all they want after their eligibility is up or they have decided to declare for the draft.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
I hope it's nothing more than a flight and hotel
Then he could pay them back and there would be no further issues (right, RBR Lawyer Men?).
www.totteringworld.com
and isn't there a $5,000 limit or something?
that number was being bandied about in the wake of the tennessee brawl in connection with the value of the perks the bar may have provided the players.
Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.
Pete's post earlier
seems to imply that the rules may be different if it’s an agent than they are if it’s a booster (anyone that’s not an agent, e.g. Ingram and Julio’s fishing trip last year). ??
Yeah, the $5k limit is not an agent/amateurism thing, it's an extra benefits thing.
I'm wrong all the time.
by PeteHoliday on Jul 21, 2010 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Don't know the rule
I’m not going to pretend I know the rule. I’m just saying if it IS against the rules, the problem is with the rules. There needs to be some common sense in rulemaking. what is the purpose of these rules? What is the harm in a recruiting event held by an agent? If there needs to be some sort of application process with the NCAA to hold an event like this, I’d be fine with it, but I’m not inherently against athletes getting access to a really cool party in the hopes they one day sign with the person throwing the party.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
1. They are allowed to meet with agents while they are still playing. They just can’t accept benefits or sign anything.
2. Once the players are done playing CFB these agents can pay the Russians to fly them to the fucking moon while they pound stoli and eat caviar for all anyone cares.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
i don't know if it's the rules
so much as the half assed and inconsistent enforcement.
Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.
Poseur is right
We often recruit top students into our program (an academic program) at UA. We pay travel, food, lodging, and have our current students show them a good time (UA doesn’t pay for drinks, but surely some of our current students buy a beer for the recruit).
Furthermore, we have businesses come to campus to recruit students. I have seen these business recruiters take our students out for very expensive steak dinners where they foot the bill. And guess what, some of these STUDENTS sign a contract to work for the company before they graduate. We (the university faculty) see this as a great thing.
Student-athletes are treated differently. Sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse.
I wouldn't piss off the boys from Alabama . . . DBT
once again, the athletes can do those things, just not while they are still competing.
And it’s also sort of an apples & oranges issue. The NCAA has an interest in promoting a fair playing field between competing universities, and allowing freebies from agents to players would open up all kinds of cans of worms. How easy would it be for university boosters to funnel money through “sports agents” to players if the NCAA didn’t care?
The NCAA doesn’t have any interest in promoting a “fair playing field” in academics or free enterprise. If some university wants to pay some super genius kid millions of dollars to attend, then they can do so. What does that have to do with football players?
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
Yeah, there’s no such thing as an amateur student or a professional student. The issue here is the illusion the NCAA insists on maintaining that these are amateurs.
I'm wrong all the time.
by PeteHoliday on Jul 21, 2010 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
and for the record...
we don’t really give a damn if you dislike the “gate” suffix.
Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.
Heh.
I really wish another self-titled scandal would emerge on the level of Watergate so we could get something new. Not complaining, but I’ve been waiting for something like that to happen for years now.
Not gonna happen.
Let’s say a super huge scandal like that happens at the Ritz. Guess what? Ritz-gate.
Some people say "If you can't beat them, join them". I say "If you can't beat them, beat them", because they will be expecting you to join them, so you will have the element of surprise.
by BamaHadMeAtHello on Jul 21, 2010 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Agent-Iran Contra?
Agent-Readmylips
Agent-Lewinsky?
Agent-Dress Stain?
Agent-Pardons?
Agent-WMD?
See, none of those work the same. Agentgate it is.
"Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." -- Milton Friedman
by outsidethesidelines on Jul 21, 2010 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
How's about...
we append “in my pants” to every scandal? “Agent In My Pants.”
That ship has sailed.
Gate gets added to every scandal and/or coverup. And so it goes, unless and until there’s another catastrophe (which just happens to have an easy one-syllable mutation into a handy suffix for future use).
Like with fortune cookies, how you can add “…in bed”:
“All your hard work will soon pay off… in bed!”
What is the law?
There may be laws, but has anyone gone to jail yet? It is easy to say that there are laws against the agent, but until someone is actually fined on jailed because of one, do they really exist? The law may end up being so complicated that you can’t prosecute anyone except for the most egregious conduct. Just throwing parties for high profile players might not rise to that level, and even if it does, it’s probably worth the risk to the agent if the penalty is negligible.
Has anyone ever been to the Fontainebleu on South Beach?
I went there on a random Saturday night, and it was the best party I’ve ever been to – and we didn’t make it past the hotel lobby. And as for value of “benefits,” four mixed drinks cost us $64. Their well bourbon was Maker’s Mark.

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