Oh, save us Jebus!
by outsidethesidelines on Aug 14, 2010 11:09 PM CDT
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Let's recap the statistical scorecard for the first scrimmage of Fall practice: Greg McElroy and A.J. McCarron completed a mind-boggling 80% of passing attempts despite throwing 59 passes. Combined, they threw for eight touchdowns and averaged over ten yards per attempt. If we were to view the performance through the lens of quarterback ratings, McElroy would have posted a Playstation-esque 230.4 passer rating. And it wasn't just one receiver lighting up the secondary either... despite throwing for about 700 yards on the day, somehow not a single receiver broke the 100-yard mark. The tailbacks may have "struggled" somewhat, by the ridiculous standards set by the passing game, but nevertheless matched Al Bundy's record of four touchdowns in one game, er, scrimmage. All in all, the offense somehow racked up 13 touchdowns in what was probably only about a 100 play scrimmage.
Anyone else need a drink right now?
Now, as the supposed resident pessimist, let's step back from the ledge just a bit. We were razor-thin in depth in the defensive backfield regardless, and that only became thinner with the dismissal of Rod Woodson and the heat-related medical condition forcing Kendall Kelly's absence. And, considering that, with the in-scrimmage injuries to Menzie, Milliner, and Lester, who even knows for sure exactly which players were in the game for most of these reps? I don't know exactly the names, but I can largely assure you that it was Mark Barron, Dre Kirkpatrick, Burton Scott, Nick Perry, Jarrick Williams, and then a whole bunch of walk-ons that you have never heard of.
So calm down a bit in that regard. A lot of the raw numbers were probably just inflated due to the injuries and the general attrition in the defensive backfield. In that sense, it is not that big of a concern given that many of those players will never see the field this Fall unless the major run of injuries continues.
With that limited qualifier out of the way, however, I must say that the point remains that this scrimmage looks pretty brutal. I don't care about the context, you see anything even in the same ballpark of the numbers we saw today, and it's ugly. Very ugly. Some people may not want to admit it, but for now it seems like this defense has a long way to go. In his post-scrimmage press conference, Saban constantly referred to mental mistakes, a lack of intensity, young and inexperienced players, and overall immaturity. And this comes roughly 48 hours after he publicly questioned the development of the linebacker corps, which we all thought would be a strength heading into the season. Quite frankly, he has clearly been upset with our defense so far this camp, and there is really no positive way to spin all of this. Rest assured he wasn't just moaning and groaning for nothing.
And I know what some of you are thinking, "Eh, it's just a scrimmage, it's not like this is a real game, right?" Well, that's obviously true to an extent -- no, clearly scrimmages are not real games -- but it's very misleading. While they don't ultimately count in the win-loss column, scrimmages very much do matter in every other regard. It's not like the coaching staff and the team are just sitting around bored one day and then they decide to put on a scrimmage like it's some spur-of-the-moment pick-up basketball game. There is very much a reason why they play these things, and why they put players in danger of serious injury in order to conduct these scrimmages. They have major, tangible impacts on player development, evaluations, playing time distributions, and, well, everything else for that matter. You can't just throw all of this stuff out the proverbial window because it's not a "real" game; scrimmages are important and the player and unit performances in them make a difference.
We've talked a lot here at RBR in recent weeks and months about how the offense needs to become even better in 2010 to compensate for the expected declines with both the defense and special teams units. In that regard, it's a positive to see the offense performing at such a high level, but I'll be the first to admit that unless the defense ultimately comes together better than they looked today, it's not going to matter what the offense does. If your goal is repeating as national champions, the defense is simply going to have to do better than this, I don't care how well the offense ultimately performs.
The good news is that we are still unbelievably talented defensively (with even more talent on the way in the 2011 recruiting class) and we still have Nick Saban on our side. Combined, in time, at some point those two things will produce yet another elite defense that dominates opposing offenses with brutal force. It will happen, it is a question of when, not if. Unfortunately, the results of this scrimmage hints that the transition from all of the personnel loss from the 2009 defense will not be nearly as seamless as everyone had hoped. This unit will get to where we all want it to go some day, but after today's performance I must say that day may be further off than we would all like.
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Who needs defense.
We’ll just go all PAC-10 and win every game 65-34 or something similar :)
by MaxRollTide on Aug 14, 2010 11:18 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
No, we won't win every game
in the SEC giving up 34 pts. I can promsie you that.
As much as I hate Auburn I hate Tenn. that much more.
Good evaluation OTS.
We have talent, and we have the coaching, but we are not there right now and we are less than 3 weeks from kick-off.
I too believe scrimages are a good indication of where you are. My hope right now is that SJSU, PSU & Duke will give us time to grow up.
My feeling about PSU is that I think they will play it conservative and run the ball and that we can hold them down to around 21 pts. and that we can put up more than that on them.
I know things could turn around and we maybe solid from the first kick. But, I just don’t think Saban is going to magically blink his eyes and Scott and Kirkpatrick are going to turn into Jackson and Arenas.
As much as I hate Auburn I hate Tenn. that much more.
PSU will not get within 20 yards of our end zone. 28 - 9 is the final. Only reason it's not 35 is because we milk the clock
all 4th Q and AJ hands the ball off 19 plays in a row. Also, PSU OC’s have been hearing we are weak in the secondary and Mark Barron catches them trying to take advantage…he has a career day with 3 INT’s.
Never truss a big butt and a smile.
OH YEAH!!
Some people say "If you can't beat them, join them". I say "If you can't beat them, beat them", because they will be expecting you to join them, so you will have the element of surprise.
by BamaHadMeAtHello on Aug 15, 2010 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions
CNS did not become CNS by allowing his hand to be read 3 weeks before we get to even see the flop.
Whatever weakness you may think you know we have, it is because CNS wants you to think that is our weakness. If you haven’t noticed the man can keep a secret. You all can keep frettin’ about our secondary if you want but by virtue of the fact that everyone is convinced we will be ripped to shreds in the air I believe we will be just fine.
Never truss a big butt and a smile.
I agree with you to some extent,
although we can’t automatically dismiss every concern about our team with the “It’s OK, we have Nick” card. You gotta think Nick would rather not have the injuries and suspension that we’ve had.
Yeah, I think Saban will get the guys ready by week 2 or 3 at least. But you have to admit though that it’s a bit of kool aid.
Looking back at your post....
that’s A LOT of kool aid. I hope you’re right, but I think it’s pretty far out to think that PSU won’t even sniff the goal line.
It is more my lack of confidence in PSU's O than anything I have seen from our end. Do they even have a
QB yet? Our front 7 will be stout and if they can’t throw it then I just don’t see how they will get into the RZ. And in regards to the Kool-Aid….I’m practically silly with it!
Never truss a big butt and a smile.
Meet me back here in 4 weeks. If I am wrong you may chastise me roundly.
Never truss a big butt and a smile.
Now, as the supposed resident pessimist, let’s step back from the ledge just a bit. We were razor-thin in depth in the defensive backfield regardless, and that only became thinner with the dismissal of Rod Woodson and the heat-related medical condition forcing Kendall Kelly’s absence.
Also, how did they conducting the scrimmage? Is the team divided, like A day? I’m not sure they do, but if they did that would make the depth issues in the secondary that much more severe.
Split squad...
It was a split squad scrimmage, and if it was anything like most Saban scrimmages, it was generally the ones going against the twos with some changes mixed in here and there. And you’re right, it would have made the depth issues in the secondary more glaring. You’re effectively fielding two teams instead of one.
"Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." -- Milton Friedman
by outsidethesidelines on Aug 15, 2010 12:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe the offense is just that good? Is it really all that surprising if the running game was successful? I’m just sayin’…
University of Tennessee : Where Schadenfreude Happens
Maybe the offense is just that good?
Eh, no college offense is that good (hell, or pro for that matter). Scoring a lot of points is one thing, making the ’07 Patriots look like an ordinary, run-of-the-mill offense is another.
"Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." -- Milton Friedman
by outsidethesidelines on Aug 15, 2010 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions
It looks like this scrimmage was designed to set fire to the secondary and salt the earth behind
The passing attempts and the percentage is a dead giveaway. After all, Alabama isn’t running the air raid. Also, for that high a percentage, you have to think the defense didn’t blitz.
My guess is that our $4mil DB coach wanted to get some players’ attention.
by TETRAGRAMMATON on Aug 15, 2010 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
Not to mention our prize trophy-toting RB not cracking 30 yds.
Some people say "If you can't beat them, join them". I say "If you can't beat them, beat them", because they will be expecting you to join them, so you will have the element of surprise.
by BamaHadMeAtHello on Aug 15, 2010 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions
This isn't surprising
You had to figure that the O would dominate the D during the first scrimmage, although the degree is slightly unexpected. It’s still the first scrimmage, no matter how talented, the D is still going to need work, now they can show them semi-game film on what they do wrong, and generally the biggest improvement should come between the first and second scrimmage. So lets hope in Saban.
by dixiefootballpride44 on Aug 15, 2010 12:41 AM CDT reply actions
Given the percentage of pass plays
It does seem like Saban was really trying to test the Secondary over and over again.
Learning in the line of fire.
Fumbles. It was always Fumbles
He even explicitly states this:
We probably threw the ball more by plan in this scrimmage, because we wanted to work on pass defense and tackling in the secondary
(from Kleph’s link below)
i like the breakdown
but it seems like you are writing off the d. I still think we got some guys that will make plays when it gets down to it. and I do agree that scrimmages do matter, but we got a little while before the season starts and I think that we can improve. I just think we need to see how they respond when the season gets started. Having said that. I too am a bit concerned, but Its not the end of the world. Good writeup nonetheless though.
"get your ass ready for a streetfight... and i like a streetfight."
by make his ass quit! on Aug 15, 2010 2:05 AM CDT reply actions
pretty sure Julio Jones (7 rec, 99 yds, 2 td's)
only plays for Bama, so the secondary has that to hang their hats on…
The beauty of The Process is that you have never arrived, so you get to continue being perpetually awesome... -Espyonage
by tempebamafan on Aug 15, 2010 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions
by the way...
the numbers from the scrimmage can be found here.
Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.
The positive on Defense
Our star RBs all averaged right at 3 YPC with none breaking 30 yards. Obviously a portion of their work came in goal-line situations because they had 4 TDs between them, but you’ve got to think at least some of their carries came between the 20s and apparently there were no long runs given up.
Also notable is that after seeing the boatloads of sacks reported in the spring scrimmages, there were only 3 reported in this one. There were probably some that weren’t reported, but even so at the rate we were seeing them in the spring I would have expected at least a dozen given 59 pass attempts. Either there were a lot that weren’t reported (which seems unlikely because QBs getting sacked all day don’t have 80% completion rates), the OLine has improved tremendously over the summer, or the calls on defense were designed to put pressure on the secondary to see how they would handle it, get a lot of film, and hopefully get their attention on the improvement that’s needed.
Yes!
I like your comment, Zeke. I agree, that in scrimmages coaches set things up. Almost like a lawyer ask questions he knows the answers to. This is all as it should be and the defense will be just fine. Sure it will take some time to gel, but they are talented, well coached, and in the best system in football. Just watch how they shut down the Arkansas pass game.
And yes, our offense, and GMac are just that good. Did you notice Eddie Lacy’s numbers?
We gotta be excited. This is too good.
Gentry and Chase Goodbread had some interesting tweets following the scrimmage…Im not concerned as of right not and will withhold from jumping to any conclusions about our defense until I see them play live. We always hear negatives coming out of practice from Saban and this year is no different. Hell, McElroy is quoted as saying Saban jumped all over the team AFTER WE JUST WON A NC because of the way we played in the 2nd half. A scrimmage is just that…Lets not freak out until we something besides pride is on the line.
Don’t forget that yardage totals trend higher because every snap counts one-way in a scrimmage. A real game splits it between two teams.
Examples: On Aug. 9, 2008, JPW threw for 309 yards in a scrimmage. On Aug. 22, 2009, G-Mac hit 295. I think those defenses turned out OK
In that same ’09 scrimmage, Mark Ingram rushed for 19 yards on 8 carries. The leading pass catcher? Brad Smelley
ChaseGoodbread
@bamabeat History of Saban scrimmages, spring and fall, ALWAYS pass-happy. Developing DBs no small factor, says I.
"You stay bought into it when you see your opponent sucking air and physically failing and you're still fit and ready and you know you own his ass."- Corey Reamer speaking about Coach Cochran
In the immortal words of a wholly remakable book...
…Don’t Panic.
I won’t reiterate the salient points above (I especially like the “lawyer asking questions he knows the answers to” analogy posited by AfricaMike), but I will point out what Gentry Estes points out on his Twitter feed: on Aug. 22 of last year, McElroy hit 295 and Ingram picked up 19 yards on 8 carries. (Hmm. As I was typing this, bammer blockquoted the same stats.)
I worry about a lot of things in this world. Dying alone. Affording catastrophic injury. The coming robot apocalypse. Nick Saban-coached defensive secondaries? Waaaay down my list, since I’m pretty sure I’ll never stare into one with a football in my hand. This scrimmage merely evidenced how young and thin our secondary really is, which every sensible fan (and more importantly, our kind-of-good-at-secondary-and-winning coach) already recognized. It doesn’t conclusively prove they’ll die screaming, in flames, at the hands of the Razorbacks.
And honestly, do you think the defensive unit we had on the field yesterday was worse than those at Arky and Auburn?
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.
Auburn and Tennessee fans are a lot like Slinkys...neither are worth much but you do get a sense of satisfaction from pushing them down a flight of stairs
dont panic indeed,
i brought a towel.
The beauty of The Process is that you have never arrived, so you get to continue being perpetually awesome... -Espyonage
by tempebamafan on Aug 15, 2010 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't mind lying on the floor,
but I have major issues with putting a bag over my head.
by MaxRollTide on Aug 15, 2010 5:30 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Just remember Nick Saban
coached our 2007 D in which we started a true freshman corner. By the way Houston, HOUSTON!!!, tore us apart. And we didn’t look so hot against Colorado either.
As much as I hate Auburn I hate Tenn. that much more.
Those guys were not these men.
Not by a long shot.
Some people say "If you can't beat them, join them". I say "If you can't beat them, beat them", because they will be expecting you to join them, so you will have the element of surprise.
by BamaHadMeAtHello on Aug 15, 2010 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Couple thoughts
This contrasts dramatically from the first scrimmage last year. In 2009, if I remember correctly, the defense absolutely kicked the breath out the offense and we were on here worrying about the offense.
Also, this reminds me of USC’s scrimmages in 2005 when they had a lot of new starters and holes on defense but their offense was dynamic. With Bush, Jarrett, Byrd, Leinart, and others they scored almost 100 points in one of their scrimmages (don’t remember the format or exact score, but the score was striking).
Finally, we have a nice set-up going here. In 2009 the veteran D carried the younger offense. In 2010 a veteran offense will carry a younger D. In 2011, with a lot of new faces on offense, our defense could be epic.
www.totteringworld.com
Did our O-line dominate Dareus?
I didn’t see any stats for him. I do think that once these guys see the film, they will understand what mistakes were made in the secondary. While I worry about the teams with potent air attacks, I do think that our pass rush and run defense will be solid. After all, our guys are playing against Ingram, TR, GMac, Julio, Maze, etc., etc. "Let’s go be CHAMPIONS, boys!!
by Tider1701 on Aug 15, 2010 10:38 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Let's take a look at that glass of bourbon in the picture (all in good fun)
The first thing to notice is that there is quite a lot of room left in the glass. The bourbon needs to go all the way to the the top. I just don’t see how you can enjoy this glass of bourbon knowing that there could have been more in the glass.
Another thing that is worrisome is the size of the ice cubes. They are taking up way too much space. If the cubes were smaller, you could easily get more bourbon in the glass.
Now I grant you, a high quality bourbon like this will taste good but can you really enjoy it when you know that there could be more in the glass?
And let’s talk about that glass. Look how thick the glass is at the bottom. It gives you the impression that it is a large glass when in fact it is only glass and not bourbon. The same can be said for the shape of the glass. It deceives you with the degree of slanted sides. It’s way too narrow at the bottom. You think you are getting a lot more bourbon than you’re really getting.
So you can wear the crimson colored glasses if you want and deceive yourself into thinking that this is going to be a fine glass of bourbon. But I prefer to be a realists and confront all of the things that will make it difficult to enjoy this glass of bourbon. Nonetheless, hope for the best.
by Crimson Roses on Aug 15, 2010 11:08 AM CDT reply actions 4 recs
You overthought
that glass of bourbon. Best to just enjoy it. Cheers, Crimson Roses. We’ll be fine and once again make their asses quit.
Maybe your approach is all wrong.
Maybe this glass of bourbon is like Coach Saban. Maybe it looks sorta small, maybe it seems like there should be more there, but once you down it, it still knocks you on your ass.
Classic post, btw.
by MaxRollTide on Aug 15, 2010 11:41 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
and ice...ugh
"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero
by Stuck in the Plains on Aug 16, 2010 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions
This team needs to play scared every week . . ..
to have a chance of repeating so this is in someways a good development because it gets rid of the air of inevitability that has developed recently in the media around this team. That being said, secondary play last year was critical because we did not have a dominating pass rush. This year, between Dareus, Hightower, and Upshaw, there is a good chance we will overwhelm OLines — that will reduce a lot of pressure on the secondary. But they need to be scared.
by Son of Roaring Dan on Aug 15, 2010 11:41 AM CDT reply actions
Who's Jebus?
what position does he play?
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
placeholder?
"You stay bought into it when you see your opponent sucking air and physically failing and you're still fit and ready and you know you own his ass."- Corey Reamer speaking about Coach Cochran
Oh come on...
… how has no one pointed out the obvious Simpsons reference? One of the greatest Simpsons episodes ever, IMO.
"Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." -- Milton Friedman
by outsidethesidelines on Aug 15, 2010 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Good point.
I’m promoting you to man of the house. Lisa is now boy. Maggie is now brainy girl. And the toaster can be Maggie.
by TETRAGRAMMATON on Aug 15, 2010 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions
What is beer? What is TV?
Oh God! Oh God! Oh God! Oh God! (while writhing on the ground)
by Crimson Roses on Aug 15, 2010 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Go crazy?
"You know, we had a lot of fun tonight. But there's nothing funny about vapor lock! It's the third most common cause of cars stalling. So please, take care of your car and get it checked!" -Joe Namath
by billycthulhu on Aug 15, 2010 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Flashback to '07 UF
Even if our offense is nearly as productive as that team’s, which is going to be very hard to do, we may struggle to do as well as that team with our young D. They went 9-3 in a weak East that year, BTW. My expectations have been reset.
Christ...
I love fall camp! I can’t wait!
"...because you've got your mind right, and that's the way we like it." Nick Saban
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