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Greg McElroy and the Vertical Passing Attack

In recent weeks, there has been an ongoing discussion here at RBR regarding the effectiveness, or lack thereof, of the Alabama vertical passing attack in 2009. Going back as far as last year, I have consistently argued that, by and large, we had no real vertical element in our passing attack, a contention that I have continued to support in recent weeks. Others, however, have disagreed to varying degrees.

Of course, though, the only way to objectively look at this argument is to go to the play-by-play data and see what we find. To that end, I've gone back through the play-by-play data for eleven games in 2009 -- the eight conference games, the Virginia Tech game, the SEC Championship Game against Florida, and the BCS Championship Game against Texas  -- and have specifically looked at the completed passes that resulted in a gain of 20 yards or more.

By my count, there were exactly twenty such plays in those eleven games, and after reviewing the film of each play, I've listed each of them in the following chart. I've identified and listed each of those plays by opponent, the receiver who caught the pass, the number of yards gained on the play, along with various notes concerning route types and defensive coverages. Click the following chart for the full-size version.

Verticalpassingattack_medium

Pouring back over the raw data, I tend to think that the argument that I have been marking is largely validated with the findings. To begin with, having only twenty of these such plays is no great number, especially considering that the sample of games analyzed here included 275 passes by McElroy. As a whole, that means we had one passing play of twenty yards or more for about every 14 passing attempts, not necessarily a bad number per se, but by the same token certainly not something to be hailed as an achievement either.

With that said, however, I do think the lack of a vertical passing attack becomes more prevalent the closer you look at the data. The first two games against Virginia Tech and Arkansas went well enough, with McElroy making three great throws on deep routes, not to mention adding another great reception by Hanks and a touchdown on the trick pass out of the Wildcat. After those two games, though, it's a bit of a different story.

Star-divide

Beginning with the Kentucky game, that vertical element really begins to go away. Starting in Lexington, we largely begin to see the explosive passing plays coming solely on short-and-intermediate passes that the receivers turned into big gains. In fact, not counting blown coverages (see the MSU game), in the final eight games analyzed in this sample, I can only count three times on 196 passing attempts where McElroy completed a pass that was thrown more than fifteen yards beyond the line of scrimmage. In more concrete terms, that means that only about one pass in every 65 passing attempts in that stretch was completed more than fifteen yards beyond the line of scrimmage.

Again, the norm was short-and-intermediate throws turned into long-gainers by the receivers, where yards after the catch came in massive bunches. For example, we see Mark Ingram turning a screen pass into a 22-yard gain against South Carolina. Julio Jones taking a wide receiver screen caught two yards behind the line of scrimmage and racing 75 yards for a touchdown against LSU. Marquis Maze turning a three-yard crossing route against Mississippi State, a checkdown on a third and long where we effectively chose to take the safe route and punt the football, and quickly changing direction and out-racing the MSU secondary for 42 yards. Marquis Maze turning a four-yard out route on third and three against Florida into a sideline-racing 34-yard gain. Mark Ingram taking another screen against Florida and rumbling for 69 yards. You get the idea.

Also, on more of a non-quantifiable perspective, I find the distribution of McElroy's deep throws very interesting. If you look back and isolate each play, you see that McElroy tended to throw the deep ball down the right sideline very, very well. In particular on the go routes up the right sideline, McElroy typically made very good throws on that route on multiple occasions, drilling a deep ball on that particular route no less than five times in this sample. But when you look at his attempts in the deep middle and to the deep left, it's another story entirely. McElroy made a great throw to the deep middle to Marquis Maze in the season opener against Virginia Tech, but that is largely the extent of his production in that area. He only completed two more passes in that area the rest of the year -- one a trick pass out of the Wildcat to Julio Jones, and the other an incredible grab by a wide open Darius Hanks on a terrible throw against Virginia Tech -- and neither is exactly an endorsement of his deep passing abilities. And to the deep left, interestingly enough, McElroy didn't complete a single pass in that area all year long, with the sole exception of the touchdown pass against Mississippi State that resulted from a blown coverage. It may be a bit of a small sample size, but even so I find it interesting that McElroy seemingly threw to the deep right very well, but really couldn't do anything in the deep middle or the deep left.

In the final analysis of things, I think it is relatively clear that by and large we simply didn't stretch the field very well vertically for most of the 2009 season. We did some good things against Virginia Tech and Arkansas, but after that the vertical threat largely dissipates. From there, we were largely relying on blown coverages and yards after the catch on short-and-intermediate routes in order to generate big plays in the passing game, and the times in which we set up deep in the pocket and delivered a strike deep down the field were few and far in between. McElroy generally played very well in 2009, but I think it's clear that the one flaw of his performance was that he didn't consistently stretch the field vertically. I think the data here clearly supports that conclusion.

Now, moving forward, each year is different and in 2010 it's largely a given at this point that neither the defense or the special teams units will be able to perform at the level that they did in 2009. As a result of that, the Alabama offense needs to improve to compensate for expected declines with both the defense and the special teams units. But there's only one problem with that need.

The "problem," in so much as it can legitimately be classified as one, is that offensively we really have very little room for improvement. Despite the lack of a consistent vertical passing game, the 2009 offense nevertheless performed at a high level and was arguably the best offense we've seen at Alabama in the post-Bryant era. We didn't consistently stretch the field vertically, but generally speaking we did very well in every other regard.

Keep in mind that in 2009 we averaged over 32 points and over 400 yards of offense per game, plus the running game was arguably the best in the country, and of course there was that whole Heisman Trophy winner thing. Moreover, while McElroy didn't really stretch the field vertically, he did everything else almost to perfection. He commanded the short and intermediate passing game very well, completed roughly 61% of his passes, averaged almost eight yards per attempt, and had the lowest interception rate in Alabama history. And even the offensive line performed well in pass protection -- long since the Achilles heel for Alabama offenses -- by allowing only 20 sacks on 346 passing attempts (5.7% adjusted sack rate), and even in the relatively rare event that a sack occurred we tended to lose only a small amount of yardage (5.6 yards per sack).

So, while it's easy (and accurate) to say that the Alabama offense needs to improve to compensate for expected declines with both the defense and the special teams units, the problem is simply that the offense generally played at a high level in 2009 and it is thus very difficult to significantly improve further, regardless of how many starters return. The vertical passing game is clearly one area in which Alabama can legitimately improve -- with arguably greater offensive consistency, i.e. no October swoon like we saw last year, perhaps being the only other -- and to that end we clearly need to emphasize improvement in that regard.

With all that established, however, the truth remains that generally speaking the offense likely has relatively little room for improvement, and thus for Alabama to seriously contend in their bid to repeat as national champions, the onus may very well be on the defense and special teams units to quickly rebuild, regardless of what happens with Greg McElroy and the vertical passing attack. We can talk all day about how McElroy and the passing attack will perform in 2010, but unless the defense and special teams can quickly coalesce for the Crimson Tide, Glendale may very well be a bridge too far.

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Wouldn't the analysis be more complete to include

incompletions attempted over 20 yards to get a snapshot of how frequently we tried to stretch the field (as a percentage of total and passing plays), then look at the success rate in that context? I know it’s a bit cliched but isn’t the attempt to go deep almost as important as successfully going deep in terms of keeping the defense from stacking 8+ in the box?

by The_Tusk on Aug 16, 2010 8:25 AM CDT reply actions  

isn’t the attempt to go deep almost as important as successfully going deep in terms of keeping the defense from stacking 8+ in the box?

That’s what Saban has said many times, yes.

by CarrotTop4 on Aug 16, 2010 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes.

It would be much more useful to include what you suggest along with comparisons to other quarterbacks. As it is currently stated, it’s just a scary-sounding statistic.

by crimsontsunami on Aug 16, 2010 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

But that's not what we're looking at here

I’m not sure there’s any way to effectively measure how well throwing the deep ball helped us in that regard. Instead, we’re looking after the fact at the successful catches and seeing how they played out. If anything, the missed passed may just show that much more weakness, though you also have to account for (intelligently) throwing away b/c of pressure and such things.

"You know, we had a lot of fun tonight. But there's nothing funny about vapor lock! It's the third most common cause of cars stalling. So please, take care of your car and get it checked!" -Joe Namath

by billycthulhu on Aug 16, 2010 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

So, while it’s easy (and accurate) to say that the Alabama offense needs to improve to compensate for expected declines with both the defense and the special teams units, the problem is simply that the offense generally played at a high level in 2009 and it is thus very difficult to significantly improve further, regardless of how many starters return.

Great write up but there is room for improvement.

Yes the 09 offense played at a high level for most of the year, the problem wasn’t stats it was consistency. We all know of Gmacs mid season collapse and we won against SC, UT, and Ole Miss with defense and the running game…Hell Ingram won that SC game all by his lonesome….

I don’t think anyone expects Gmac to be Drew Brees but he just has to stay consistent. If we want to defend our title, this team can’t afford another 4 game stretch like he had.

"You stay bought into it when you see your opponent sucking air and physically failing and you're still fit and ready and you know you own his ass."- Corey Reamer speaking about Coach Cochran

by bammer on Aug 16, 2010 8:30 AM CDT reply actions  

lol
The vertical passing game is clearly one area in which Alabama can legitimately improve — with arguably greater offensive consistency, i.e. no October swoon like we saw last year,

and this is why you read the ENTIRE article before posting..

"You stay bought into it when you see your opponent sucking air and physically failing and you're still fit and ready and you know you own his ass."- Corey Reamer speaking about Coach Cochran

by bammer on Aug 16, 2010 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hope Saban

didn’t read your post about defending. He may jedi mind choke you through the computer.

Auburn fans are like slinkys... not really good for anything but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

by IHC800 on Aug 16, 2010 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

i can already feel my neck tightning...

"You stay bought into it when you see your opponent sucking air and physically failing and you're still fit and ready and you know you own his ass."- Corey Reamer speaking about Coach Cochran

by bammer on Aug 16, 2010 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

by CarrotTop4 on Aug 16, 2010 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Coach Saban doesn't have time for that shit

"You know, we had a lot of fun tonight. But there's nothing funny about vapor lock! It's the third most common cause of cars stalling. So please, take care of your car and get it checked!" -Joe Namath

by billycthulhu on Aug 16, 2010 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

ive actually seen a side

of him in all the All Access videos that we never get to see. Him actually playing around with the players.. All you see is the super serious side…Nice to know he actually brings it down every once in a while.

"You stay bought into it when you see your opponent sucking air and physically failing and you're still fit and ready and you know you own his ass."- Corey Reamer speaking about Coach Cochran

by bammer on Aug 16, 2010 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

shhhh... don't tell anybody

"You know, we had a lot of fun tonight. But there's nothing funny about vapor lock! It's the third most common cause of cars stalling. So please, take care of your car and get it checked!" -Joe Namath

by billycthulhu on Aug 16, 2010 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Our offense is a power running attack.

We will never have high vertical passing numbers. It goes against our ball control philosophy. That is not what we are designed to do. We take a few shots every game to keep the defense honest, but when your tailback averages 6 yards a carry there is no need to throw high risk, down the field passes, that could result in an incompletion or a turn over. We are a two tight end, smash it down your throat type offense. We also use the play action pass to move the chains. To analyze why we have poor vertical passing numbers is like asking McDonalds how many pizzas they sold last year. It is not what they do.

by skegler on Aug 16, 2010 8:49 AM CDT reply actions  

When it comes to a debate between Skegler and Coach Saban, I don’t have a hard time choosing sides.

Saban has said, on more than one occasion, that the schemes and play styles are chosen to fit our personnel. He doesn’t choose them because “we’re Alabama and we do _______”.

Simply put, your proposed cause and effect are exactly opposite of reality.

If we come to a place where we have a quarterback with a solid deep ball and a stable of receivers that can run those routes and catch those balls, we’ll be a passing team.

I'm wrong all the time.

by PeteHoliday on Aug 16, 2010 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

True, but

is that a state that Saban is actively trying to get us to?

by CarrotTop4 on Aug 16, 2010 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

True up to the point of Zen-like balance.

He already has two great RBs headlining the running game. Whether it is to keep the box from always being loaded (and open it up for the RBs) or to take advantage of a predictable opposing defense, the passing game has to be a threat.
The Julio is considered one of the most talented WRs in CFB, right? McElroy is more experienced and should have the confidence to throw deep balls to the available talent.
The last thing that CNS and McElwain want is a predictable offense.
If the passing game doesn’t develop, then that is exactly what will happen. The offense will become predicably run dependent.

by crimson37 on Aug 16, 2010 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Saban definitely wants to have balance, to keep the D honest, but

I do think that he favors a ball control, physical offense.

Basically the available personnel determines the offense, but the recruiting determines the available personnel. So it’s not just random, there is some design to it.

by CarrotTop4 on Aug 16, 2010 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

You proved exactly my point. We have personnel that suits a power run
We don't have the weapons or the quarterback currently to throw downfield consistantly. Therefore to write a column stating we have no vertical passing game is redundant. Saban has always said they will design the offense around the talent. I think next year we will have more of a true passing attack, with Ingram and McElroy gone and a QB with different arm gifts than McElroy. As usual Pete, you don't comprehend the most simple statements. But at least your are consistant with your idiocy.

by skegler on Aug 16, 2010 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wow. LOL

I thought for a minute there maybe we wouldn’t have a pissing match, but then I saw this:

As usual Pete, you don’t comprehend the most simple statements. But at least your are consistant with your idiocy.

by CarrotTop4 on Aug 16, 2010 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

This tactic — changing your argument and then pretending that’s what it was all along — might work on AL.com or whatever other intellectual shit-hole you crawled out of, but it doesn’t fly here.

Here’s what you wrote:

We will never have high vertical passing numbers.

In six years we won’t have a single player from our current roster on the team. To say that we won’t have high vertical passing numbers then presumes either that you know what our roster will be, or that you think we run because we’re Alabama, rather than running because that’s the personnel we have.

I'm wrong all the time.

by PeteHoliday on Aug 16, 2010 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Pete let me talk slow for you.

Yes I think we run because we are Alabama. I think there is more evidence to suggest we will continue this trend than to begin an aerial assault offense in the future. Why do I think this, it doesn’t work in the SEC. Will we have more balance, in the future, probably. I think that it will never be 50/50. It will probably get somewhere near 60/40 at the most. Our CURRENT offense, is a power run offense (see number 22 and number 3 on current roster). These are facts. But I am sure you will argue because that is what you do. Tool.

by skegler on Aug 16, 2010 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

You might want to consult what’s already been posted on this topic:

The Process by the Numbers: Part III – Running Man

I don’t know about number of rushes vs number of pass attempts, but on a yardage basis we actually had more passing yards than rushing yards last year. (Table 4)

by CarrotTop4 on Aug 16, 2010 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

So, we build the strategy around the personell, but we will always run because we are Alabama. No matter how slow you talk, it’s kind of hard to understand that. Or is calling people “tools” supposed to help backup this argument?

"You know, we had a lot of fun tonight. But there's nothing funny about vapor lock! It's the third most common cause of cars stalling. So please, take care of your car and get it checked!" -Joe Namath

by billycthulhu on Aug 16, 2010 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well I was speaking to Pete, who has a history of insulting me (see every post reply to anything I have written). Me calling him

a tool is just par for the course. I am saying that the SEC is built around running the football and stopping the run. We are not the pac 10. That is how football games are won in this league.

by skegler on Aug 16, 2010 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hell man......

Pete’s never jumped on me about anything and I’ve been posting here for several years……..in fact, I’ve never seen Pete jump down anybody’s throat……unless……they make bullshit statements, then change their tactics mid-stream when Pete points out that they are full of shit…….Pete is just trying to learn you sumthin……..the way we talk here at RBR is to have opinions that are backed up by good solid research and facts – you seem to shoot from the hip a lot and then back yourself into a corner by arguing something that is almost the exact opposite of your original statements…….and I’ll say it real slow like……Pete…..no…..like……this……….

by p3bhambama on Aug 16, 2010 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here is my research and stats.

See the current heisman trophy winner. We are a power run team.

by skegler on Aug 17, 2010 7:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

You're either a really bad commenter or a really good troll

I can’t really figure out which.

Regardless, it might disappoint you to learn that Ingram will not be on the team forever.

I'm wrong all the time.

by PeteHoliday on Aug 17, 2010 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Just so I understand -

Anyone who disagrees with you Pete is either a “bad commenter” or a “troll”?

So when Ingram will be gone next year we will become a prolific aerial assault offense? Have you not seen number 3? I guess they will make him a slot receiver. Better yet, they will have him ride the pine because he will not fit in on the field when we run all those empty backfield sets. Apparently you have lived in a cave the past 2 years and haven’t seen our offense. I guess you can tell the future and see that we will be a passing offense next year.

by skegler on Aug 17, 2010 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Winnah...

…best comment in thread….

"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban

by NiceLittleSaturday on Aug 17, 2010 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

I’ll break it down for you, although I suspect you already realize how wrong you are, which is why you’re trying to deflect and distract.

Assertion:

We will never have high vertical passing numbers.

Further assertion:

Saban has always said they will design the offense around the talent.

Necessary assumption for the two foregoing to be simultaneously true: Alabama will never have the personnel to generate high vertical passing numbers.

Trait required to validate said assumption: Precognition.

Approximate likelihood that skegler has said trait, given his commenting history: Zero.

Q.E.D.

I'm wrong all the time.

by PeteHoliday on Aug 17, 2010 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

We will never have high vertical passing numbers.

It goes against Saban’s philosophy of balance. He wants to have a balanced offense so that we are not one dimensional. The numbers support this:

Alabama Crimson Tide 2009 Offensive Statistics:

Passing 2009
Atts: 346, Comps: 212 Total Yds: 2631 Avg. 7.6

Russing 2009
Car: 601 Yds: 3011 Avg. 5.0 (ingram 6.1)

2009 Overall FBS Rankings:
Alabama Crimson Tide
Passing Avg Per game: 187.9. Ranking 92
Rushing Avg. Per game: 215.10 Ranking 12

I use these numbers because the are the most recent numbers available and because we have pretty much the entire offense returning and it should be a good indicator of how we will perform this year.

Like OTS said our offense performed pretty well overall. We averaged 32 points a game and our defense only gave up 11 per game.
If you notice the passing and rushing yards per game are about the same. That is balance. The reason that proves what I have been saying all along are the attempts/carries numbers. We handed off almost 2x more than we attempted a pass. We also averaged just about 2 yards more per attempt throwing the ball than handing it to our top two running backs. Finally we were 92nd in passing in 2009. And 12th in rushing. Any football fan that doesn’t even follow Alabama could tell you we are a rushing team. Now I think we will improve our passing game. It can only improve when it is ranked 92. But we will not have huge vertical passing numbers because, once again, it is not what we do. Balance is the key to our offense and Saban will continue to recruit to be balanced.

by skegler on Aug 17, 2010 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Balance is not mutually exclusive with high vertical passing numbers. A cursory glance at OTS’s posts will demonstrate that. We could have had the exact same total passing and rushing yardage, but had it come through more of a vertical game and less of a 10-yard-pass-turns-into-50-yard-touchdown game.

The problem is that no matter how much you weasel around, you can’t escape the fact that you don’t know what our roster is going to look like in 2, 3, or 10 years, and if the roster at that point dictates a vertical passing-centered offense, that’s what we’ll be.

But, then, you recognize that, because you have to try to shore up that weakness in your initial statements with this:

But we will not have huge vertical passing numbers because, once again, it is not what we do.

This is called a circular argument. Once you learn how to make a point without using them, you might be worth listening to.

I'm wrong all the time.

by PeteHoliday on Aug 17, 2010 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

What can I say Pete-

You are like that drunk uncle at the party that argues that the world is flat, not because you believe it, but because you think it makes you look smart and because you like to hear yourself talk. I am not sure what your argument is. You just sit back and attack other people’s points of view without offering anything. I feel sorry for you dude. You bring nothing to the table. I at least bring an opinion and can show factual statistics to support. If you think we will be a passing team in the future, say so. And what exactly do you base that on? I use to find our sparring matches quite fun, but now I think you just don’t have anything to say but try to be clever with jabs and hyperbole. Everything you add is a reply to someone else’s thought. Throw your nuts on the table with an actual opinion. I would have more respect for you.

by skegler on Aug 17, 2010 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Another “clever” ploy — when you’re out of arguments, try to make the discussion about the other person instead, to try to distract from the fact that you’re grasping at straws. We’re used to barners doing that around here — it’s not going to work.

I’ve made it as simple as I can. The bottom line, you used the word “never” where you had no basis to, probably as hyperbole to try to bolster a weak comment. That put you in direct opposition to one of Saban’s coaching philosophies and, when presented with that, you went into damage control mode and tried to support your original claim by changing your argument completely and then using circular logic to try to erase the contradiction. Nobody’s convinced or impressed.

I realize that you won’t do it, but your best course of action would be to admit that you exaggerated when you said we’d “never” have high vertical passing numbers.

I'm wrong all the time.

by PeteHoliday on Aug 18, 2010 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

He’s trying to extract himself from an untenable position — positing two contradictory arguments within a few posts of each other — so he’s doing the best he can.

Would be better to admit he initially misspoke, but the odds of that are roughly the same as the odds of him presenting a consistent, coherent argument in the first place (i.e., damn near zero).

I'm wrong all the time.

by PeteHoliday on Aug 16, 2010 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Those may be facts, but they’re not at all relevant to your initial bullshit argument.

We will never have high vertical passing numbers.

That was your initial argument. Are you going to back it up or retract it? (Or, I guess, your preferred option: deflect and hurl insults)

Remember: “Never” is a long damn time.

I'm wrong all the time.

by PeteHoliday on Aug 16, 2010 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

You can stand by it all day, but unless you can actually support it, all you have is two simultaneous claims which contradict each other.

But, hey, toss all the insults you want if it makes you feel better. It’d be nice if they were a bit more creative, but I think everyone knows not to expect much from you.

I'm wrong all the time.

by PeteHoliday on Aug 16, 2010 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

a) It’s sad that you believe there needs to be a counter example for your argument to be poor. Reaching a correct conclusion — assuming you have — doesn’t make your argument correct. “The sun rises in the east because foxes have tails.”

b) Not that we needed more examples of you being out of your depth here, but . . . averaging 400 yards a game would put a team in the top 2 or 3 in the country for passing yards per game (in 2008 Texas Tech lead the nation with 413/gm — ). Averaging 500 has never happened. To say nothing of the fact that having a lot of passing yards doesn’t mean the team has a vertical passing game.

I'm wrong all the time.

by PeteHoliday on Aug 16, 2010 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

PETE!!!!11!!1

+1 for “might work on AL.com or whatever intellectual shit-hole you crawled out of, but it doesn’t fly here”…….I lol’d…..

by p3bhambama on Aug 16, 2010 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah......

I was in Bryant-Denny the day that Rohan Davey and Josh Reed lit up our D for nearly 600 yards of passing…….if you witnessed that you wouldn’t say that Coach Saban isn’t into passing…….

by p3bhambama on Aug 16, 2010 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

I just don't think you belong here if you think

that we take it too seriously…….and anyone who saw that game and still thinks that the only thing we will ever do is run the football is an idiot……not only that, but you are obviously ignoring statements made by Coach Saban himself where he said that we are going to strive for balance…….and if you don’t care to listen to what Coach Saban says I really don’t give a flying fuck what comes out of your cocksucker……

by p3bhambama on Aug 17, 2010 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks for proving my point. And for the record I mention balance several times in my

posts. That philosophy of balance, by Saban is exactly why we will not consistantly have huge passing numbers. Your one example is an exception and not the rule.

by skegler on Aug 18, 2010 7:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Damn

man I tried to forget that game. Josh Reed was killing us all game.

A picture says a thousand words unless it is a picture of the Alabama football team then it only says one word.........CHAMPION!

by AlabamaTitans2009 on Aug 17, 2010 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Most...

…depressing defensive performance I’ve witnessed. Josh Reed pwned us but good.

"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban

by NiceLittleSaturday on Aug 17, 2010 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

It

was painful. I think he had almost 300 receiving yards by himself.

"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken

by Bens4vcobra on Aug 18, 2010 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Good stuff,

OTS. I agree that GMac needs to be more consistent. He’s done well, considering last year was his first as a starter, full-time. I am beginning to believe that this year, we’ll see how he holds up to throwing more than 30 passes a game, week in, week out. We have the running game in spades. Plus, I believe CNS torched our secondary on purpose Saturday, to see where those guys were, period. Our run-first mentality becomes very dangerous when start whipping the ball around on first down…so, maybe we’ll see more down-field shots this year.

"...because you've got your mind right, and that's the way we like it." Nick Saban

by SRGBama on Aug 16, 2010 8:51 AM CDT reply actions  

So, what is a good percentage for long attempts?

Good article!

But, when you say that Greg’s numbers are “not neccessarily bad”, but “not something to be hailed as an achievement either,” what is the standard by which you are judging this? Maybe you could compare Gmac to other high producing QB’s in upper tier programs. . . please.

by Alabamanator on Aug 16, 2010 9:02 AM CDT reply actions  

you'd have to compare him to QB's in similar systems...

With the spread so prevalent these days, its hard to compare one QB to another.

"You stay bought into it when you see your opponent sucking air and physically failing and you're still fit and ready and you know you own his ass."- Corey Reamer speaking about Coach Cochran

by bammer on Aug 16, 2010 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Passing in 2010

McElroy himself has been saying Bama has to pass more and better. So has Saban. It is clear that SEC defenses are doming after Bama’s running while they whiz the ball on offense. Bama has to anticipate the box is going to be stacked more this year. Teams will try to score quickly to get ahead in the manner that Auburn was almost successful with last year. I think Bama has to score more early to offset this. I don’t think it is wise to think of wearing the defense down so as to get ahead in the second half. Yes do that but don’t depend on it. Running attack defense is the name of the game for Bama opponents this year. They feel they have McElroy figured and he is who they have to beat rather than a first year QB. Are they right, that is the question.

by BobM2009 on Aug 16, 2010 9:45 AM CDT reply actions  

OTL, I applaud your effort......

My argument has consistently been that it may not neccessarily be a reflection of the quarterback but that it could be a reflection on the coaches/scheme/defense and many other things. More than anything I think it’s a reflection of our scheme. I distinctly remember Saban having a fit about a throw JPW made in the 2007 LSU game. It was a deep ball that I thought was a good read but it feel incomplete and Saban went ballistic.

I hate to do this to you, but we honestly need a side by side comparison. I’ve said on here several times that we had more long plays in the passing game last year than I can remember since the early to mid 90s. That’s a far back as my memory will take me.

I guess the question to you should be; how many times is enough?

by deaux68 on Aug 16, 2010 10:33 AM CDT reply actions  

I hate to do this to you, but we honestly need a side by side comparison.

That’d make a great fanpost. Maybe you should write it up.

I'm wrong all the time.

by PeteHoliday on Aug 16, 2010 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Beginning with the Kentucky game, that vertical element really begins to go away.

After that game I told one of my AU buddies that something changed about the offense during that game. I didn’t have the stats that you have compiled here, but for whatever it is worth the offense after the first quarter didn’t look or feel the same. I somewhat attributed it that day to the vicious winds @ Commonwealth, but in hindsight it wasn’t. Ironically, I mentioned the UK game this am as evidence of the issues with our passing game last year in a discussion of our scrimmage this weekend and cited our passing numbers Sat as evidence of a hopefully much improved(balanced) vertical, intermediate, and short passing game.

"It's not the size of the cat in the fight, it's size of the fight in the cat"

by thecalicocat on Aug 16, 2010 10:46 AM CDT reply actions  

Let's look at how Greg McElroy compares to...

2009 Heisman contender Colt McCoy using OTS’s same statistical measurements.

OTS leaves out 3 games from Alabama’s season, so I’ll leave out UCF, UTEP and ULM from Texas’s season. Here is what we get:

Colt McCoy

Wyoming:
42 yards to James Kirkendoll
25 yards to James Kirendoll
33 yards to Dan Buckner
26 yards to John Chiles

Texas Tech:
25 yards to Dan Buckner
20 yards to Dan Buckner

Colorado:
23 yards to Jordan Shipley
39 yards to Jordan Shipley
20 yards to Jordan Shipley

Oklahoma:
0 20+ yard plays

Missouri:
31 yards to Jordan Shipley
34 yards to John Chiles
24 yards to Jordan Shipley
24 yards to Jordan Shipley

Oklahoma State:
44 yards to Malcolm Williams

Baylor:
22 yards to Dan Buckner
21 yards to Jordan Shipley

Kansas:
34 yards to Marquise Goodwin
41 yards to James Kirkendoll
38 yards to Jordan Shipley
68 yards to Malcolm Williams

Texas A&M:
28 yards to Malcolm Williams
45 yards to Malcolm Williams
22 yards to Jordan Shipley
47 yards to James Kirkendoll

Nebraska:
25 yards to Tre Newton
20 yards to Malcolm Williams

Alabama:
0 20+ yard plays (injured early)

That’s a total of 26 20+yard plays out of 364 overall pass attempts, which leaves us at 1 20 + yard completion out of approximately every 14 attempts (1/14) compared to McElroy’s 1/14, a difference of basically zero in this (useless?) statistic between our guy and their Heisman Contender.

Further, if you include all of Alabama’s and Texas’s 14 games, McElroy comes out better than McCoy. Colt hit 36 out of his 470 pass attempts for 20 yards or more in 2009, averaging 1/13, while Greg hit 29 out of his 325 pass attempts for 20 yards or more, averaging 1/11.

Finally, Colt McCoy had zero 20+yard completions in all of his attempts at Oklahoma, averaging an awful zero for infinity during that game’s span.

In conclusion, these numbers might sound scary, but they aren’t scary. Of course, McElroy has room for improvement in vertical passing, as he does in every aspect of his game. But OTS’s position (that “we had no real vertical threat in our passing attack”) has not been vindicated at all by any of the statistics in his analysis.

by crimsontsunami on Aug 16, 2010 11:00 AM CDT reply actions  

not saying you're wrong...

but what type of plays where these? i know Texas passing game was a ton of screens and dump offs…but they all also air it out..

I think OTS point was that it seems as if most our ’big’’ plays came from short passes that the WR turned into big gains. Not us stretching field with long bombs.

"You stay bought into it when you see your opponent sucking air and physically failing and you're still fit and ready and you know you own his ass."- Corey Reamer speaking about Coach Cochran

by bammer on Aug 16, 2010 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oops...

I don’t know what kind of plays they were (don’t have the tapes), so I can’t say.

by crimsontsunami on Aug 16, 2010 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

I guarantee that these other star QBs had WRs...

…that could get plenty of Yards After Catch, just like Gred did. And while it is true that most of our big passing plays came from short passes, I would be willing to wager that this is true of every team in college football. The important thing is that we did, despite OTS’s denial, have a “real vertical passing threat.”

Sorry it took three posts to say this.

by crimsontsunami on Aug 16, 2010 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

lol it happens....

Heres my thought on it….

Obviously, the point of a vertical passing attack is to force the safeties to play deep and respect the deep ball. If you never do that consistently, you run the risk of allowing teams to predict your short to intermediate passes and at the same time have 8-9 men in the box to stop the run.

By getting most of our big plays from short throws, it doesn’t do much in forcing the safeties deep. I really dont even care if we complete the deep passes but we HAVE to throw them more consistently to keep the defense honest…

"You stay bought into it when you see your opponent sucking air and physically failing and you're still fit and ready and you know you own his ass."- Corey Reamer speaking about Coach Cochran

by bammer on Aug 16, 2010 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

I completely agree...

…and I bet we will.

I’m pretty psyched to see what could happen if Ingram and TR get more running room.

by crimsontsunami on Aug 16, 2010 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Part of Colt's Heisman contender status

was also contingent on his running ability (though IIRC, that was less of a factor last year than before). And, of course, OTS isn’t saying GMac has done poorly by any means. What I get out of this is that our offense has been very good. But if we want them to be able to make up for some inexperience and mistakes on defense/special teams, they’re going to have to go from very good to great. And there is a legitimate amount of improvement GMac could make in those long passes.

"You know, we had a lot of fun tonight. But there's nothing funny about vapor lock! It's the third most common cause of cars stalling. So please, take care of your car and get it checked!" -Joe Namath

by billycthulhu on Aug 16, 2010 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

All true, but

The things I am arguing against are (A) OTS’s main point (that we didn’t have “a real vertical passing threat” last year) and (B) the evidence he’s using to support that claim.

We could look up another QB to compare (Colt was just the first one I thought of). My guess is that the results would be similar. However, I don’t believe those statistics tell you much about who’s a good/poor downfield passer. A more useful measure would account for long pass attempts, what type of defense they were thrown against, and other situational factors (down and distance, pressure, etc.).

by crimsontsunami on Aug 16, 2010 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

A more useful measure would account for long pass attempts, what type of defense they were thrown against, and other situational factors (down and distance, pressure, etc.).

Honestly we are over thinking this. The fact is, if we want to take pressure of our RB’s and O line, we have to stretch the field. Plain and simple. If we don’t, ’10 will not be as successful as last year.

"You stay bought into it when you see your opponent sucking air and physically failing and you're still fit and ready and you know you own his ass."- Corey Reamer speaking about Coach Cochran

by bammer on Aug 16, 2010 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

I tend to agree . . .

Colt really struggled against OU and NU’s defenses — probably the only two decent ones he faced — just like GMac struggled against South Carolina. GMac on the other hand excelled against some really tough D’s — Florida and VaTech. I don’t recall GMac missing many open down field shots last year. Maybe Coach Mac doesn’t have confidence in GMac’s ability to throw down field OR maybe the opportunities were not there or maybe Coach Mac was playing to our strengths and did not care about beauty points. I actually think GMac will hit open receivers — if they get open and the play is called. Sure — GMac needs to improve — but if he does he will likely be invited to NYC in December.

by Son of Roaring Dan on Aug 16, 2010 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

A more useful measure would account for long pass attempts, what type of defense they were thrown against, and other situational factors (down and distance, pressure, etc.).

Well, obviously that’s true. And for that matter, it would also be more useful to account for arm strength, throwing mechanics, protection schemes, route types, offensive and defensive talent levels, wind direction, rain (if any), time of day, visibility within the stadium, quality of footing on the playing surface, crowd noise, the elevation above sea level, the crown of the field, and the inflation level of the football itself.

Of course, though, unless you’ve got a massive research team willing to devote their entire lives to studying the efficiency of college football quarterbacks regarding their ability to stretch the field vertically, well, you’ve got feasibility issues. At some point you’ve got come to come up with a reasonable way of looking through the raw data and identifying meaningful conclusions while accounting for the scarcity of time.

If you want to disagree with my conclusions, mind you, that’s fine, and if you can find some supporting evidence to contradict what I have written here, I’d be open to hearing it. That said, based on what I’ve gathered to date, I don’t see anything to contradict the argument I’ve been making for a year now.

"Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." -- Milton Friedman

by outsidethesidelines on Aug 16, 2010 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

While it's true that I have not proven that we had...

…a “real vertical threat” last year (it would depend on how you define “real”), I did undermine the evidence you provided with that chart. I would like to see you address the fact that Colt McCoy had a worse ratio of big passes to overall attempts than McElroy had. Are you saying that Colt McCoy was also not “a real vertical threat” last year?

If your statistics show a lack of a vertical threat, as you claim, then you should be able to prove it in comparisons. If not, then they’re not useful for your argument. For example, you could complain that your pet chicken can’t fly. “What a stupid bird!” you’d say. But if you take it back to the pet shop owner, he’ll tell you that none of his chickens can fly. As with pet chickens, it’s silly to complain that your quarterback can’t do something that no other quarterback can do, which is why comparisons are so important. In fact, how a statistic compares to another is the only thing that determines whether it has any significance at all.

As for “a more useful measure” of our vertical passing game, I think we could at least include the number of long pass attempts. That wouldn’t require a team of researchers. As it is now, we wouldn’t know if we had even attempted to throw the ball downfield 20 times or a 100 times or even 325 times based on the statistic in your analysis.

by crimsontsunami on Aug 16, 2010 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

though im not going to get into the

obvious sarcastic tones in both yalls responses…I will say that this makes a lot of sense and would go a long way in this argument..

As for "a more useful measure" of our vertical passing game, I think we could at least include the number of long pass attempts

As i said earlier. IT doesn’t really matter how often the long ball is completed every time, just by attempting to go deep at least 4-5 (if not more) times a game will force the defense to respect it.

"You stay bought into it when you see your opponent sucking air and physically failing and you're still fit and ready and you know you own his ass."- Corey Reamer speaking about Coach Cochran

by bammer on Aug 17, 2010 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree, but I'm just wondering,

if you never complete any of those deep balls, at what time do opponents start to discount the threat?

by CarrotTop4 on Aug 17, 2010 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Early

You don’t have to pay as much attention to an unreliable deep threat (especially when there are running backs who can gash your defense for 40 yard runs) as you do one who can connect.

I'm wrong all the time.

by PeteHoliday on Aug 17, 2010 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

um yeah...

if you throw deep say 5 times and complete none..the safety won’t bite defeating the purpose.

Our offense could be lights out if we can just get a consistent down the field passing game. Nothing crazy but just think if a defense was forced to play 5 CB’s and couldn’t load the box? Jesus…we’d put up 50 a game.

"You stay bought into it when you see your opponent sucking air and physically failing and you're still fit and ready and you know you own his ass."- Corey Reamer speaking about Coach Cochran

by bammer on Aug 17, 2010 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

This conversation...

…keeps giving me flashbacks of our 2005 offense (post-Prothro)….

"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban

by NiceLittleSaturday on Aug 17, 2010 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would like to see you address the fact that Colt McCoy had a worse ratio of big passes to overall attempts than McElroy had. Are you saying that Colt McCoy was also not "a real vertical threat" last year?

Who died and made Colt McCoy passing god, and pray tell where did you get the notion that he was the end-all be-all of the vertical passing game? That’s the assumption you’re seemingly operating under, and thereby somehow contending that if McElroy was on par with McCoy then by extension McElroy must have consistently been a potent vertical threat as well.

Where are you getting that from? With McCoy, here’s a kid who was undersized, had small hands, and average-at-best arm strength. At Texas he played in an offensive system that was built around his mobility and his accuracy on short-to-intermediate range passes. He only averaged 11 yards per completion as a senior. Based on all of that, exactly why would you ever think that McCoy should be considered a high-end vertical threat in his own right?

If you’re going to go that route, then fine, but at least do it with a quarterback who was a legitimate high-end vertical threat passer. Take Ryan Mallett and use him as an example. He completed almost as many passes of 20+ yards in three games (Georgia, A&M, and Auburn) as McElroy did in eleven. Run this analysis for him and tell me how those numbers compare, despite the fact that Mallett didn’t have near the offensive line in front of him, a Heisman Trophy winner in the backfield, or near the same level of skill talent and the receiver positions.

Or, better yet, run this same comparison for Chris Todd. Let me know how it turns out.

"Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." -- Milton Friedman

by outsidethesidelines on Aug 17, 2010 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's good that you're now comparing QBs...

…But, as I’ve mentioned before, I don’t believe your analysis can be very meaningful without at least including the number of long passing attempts. By your measurement, for example, McElroy’s perfect 17-yard TD throw to Colin Peek in the SEC Championship Game and his game-winning TD throw to Roy Upchurch in the Auburn game were both “failed attempts at vertical passing.”

As for the overall debate, you moved the goal posts. I’m not trying to prove that McElroy is a “high-end” vertical threat. All I’m trying to do is prove that he’s a legitimate vertical threat. That’s why I first thought of Colt McCoy, an elite quarterback with an (at the very least) reliable vertical passing game that defenses were forced to respect. As anyone can read above, I never said he was “the end-all be-all of the vertical passing game.” He was, however, a highly capable QB.

But anyway, just to be fair, I still decided to check out Mallett and Todd, according to your analysis.

Here’s how it ended up:

Ryan Mallett:
Averaged 1/7 including all games
Averaged 1/8 excluding Troy, Missouri State and Eastern Michigan
Chris Todd:
Averaged 1/7 including all games
Averaged 1/9 excluding Furman, Louisiana Tech and Ball State
 
So to recap:
Greg McElroy:
Averaged 1/11 including all games
Averaged 1/14 excluding FIU, UT-Chattanooga and North Texas
Colt McCoy:
Averaged 1/13 including all games
Averaged 1/14 excluding UCF, UTEP and ULM
 
In other words, Greg McElroy, according to your stats, was not quite an elite vertical passer in league with Mallett and Todd (M&T, of course, pass the ball downfield way more often than we do). However, also according to your analysis, he was in league in this regard with Colt McCoy, a legitimate downfield threat. Thus, if you truly believe in the meaningfulness of these statistics, and you agree with me about Colt McCoy, you’d have to admit that the main conclusion of your analysis is not very accurate, whereas GMac’s deep ball is.

So, was Alabama’s vertical passing attack, in fact, a “real” threat? Or did the Texas Longhorns “[have] no real vertical element in [their] passing attack,” either? Or do we need more information?

My guesses: (1) Yes, (2) No, (3) Definitely.

by crimsontsunami on Aug 17, 2010 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Colt McCoy, a legitimate downfield threat.

Wait, what?

McCoy lacked elite arm-strength and was basically famous for the screen or 5 yard slant to Jordan Shipley that he then routinely turned into a 30 yard gain.

Colt McCoy is not exactly the touchstone of vertical passing.

I'm wrong all the time.

by PeteHoliday on Aug 17, 2010 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree OTS......

It’s very obvious watching our games that we do not have a downfield passing attack…….I think what began to happen after the second or third game is that our coaches started going away from even putting us in the position to throw many deep balls, and I’ll tell you why I think this is.

The thing that bothers me most about GMac as a passer – not as a leader or even a very good quarterback – but as a pure passer, is his lack of timing…….there have been very few times, even when he has had good games, that his timing with the receivers has been what it needs to be……I think this is what is keeping us from being as good as we could be on offense, and is basically wasting a once in a generation receiver in Julio.

The key to a passing game is that the quarterback must get the ball to the receivers on time and in stride with their routes…….the ball MUST be thrown, therefore, before the receivers make the cuts that define their routes..i.e. when a receiver plants and cuts on an out route, the ball has to already have been thrown to the spot he is going to be at when he completes his route – he should turn around and the ball should hit him so that he almost has to catch it out of reflex – not stand there and wait for the ball to arrive……it is this timing that made Spurrier’s offenses at UF so difficult to defend…..if the receiver runs a correct route and the ball is on time, it is almost impossible for a DB to do anything but tackle the WR after he has made the catch…..it is the single most important thing, after pass protection, that allows for a successful downfield passing attack….

The reason, I believe, that GMac has trouble with this type of timing is that he has become obsessed with not turning the ball over – so much so that it has become all but a phobia…….because of this fear of throwing an interception, he has come to the point where he needs to see first that the receiver is open and then turn loose of the ball; and at this point it is too late – the DB has recovered…….now this applies to routes that have a defined end point like out and hook routes, but it also creates problems in the long passing game (25-30 yds downfield)……because of his fear of the turnover, he waits, and holds the ball a second too long…..this causes the receiver to be too far down range when he does release it, and therefore the receiver has to slow down and wait on the ball as GMac has thrown it as far as he can which allows DB’s to recover……I saw this same problem with JPW under Shula and the word is gunshy…..

I heard an NFL QB coach one time say that too many interceptions was definitely a bad thing, but that too few interceptions was almost as bad because it indicated that you weren’t giving yourself enough chances to create big plays…..

by p3bhambama on Aug 16, 2010 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Of course...

…it’s always important to remember that those big plays can be for the other team….

"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban

by NiceLittleSaturday on Aug 17, 2010 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Brent Musberger

I watched the VT game a couple of weeks ago and ironically, in view of the facts above, McElroy was quoted by Musberger as saying his favorite pass to throw is the deep ball. He said he enjoyed throwing it more than anything!

"It's not the size of the cat in the fight, it's size of the fight in the cat"

by thecalicocat on Aug 16, 2010 11:01 AM CDT reply actions  

So what we are saying is we are this years version of 2005 USC.....

We can spot teams points, then roll their asses once we make adjustments….
I would like to see us open up and chunk it around while we have the talent to do it.
I would like to see Julio get off this year and have teams trying to guess and pick their poison on whether we are gonna throw it to Julio, Maze,Hanks or whoever is the TE deep, or hand off on a draw to #22 or #3 for 30 yrds…We run a pro style offense, why not run it to the gills while we have the pro talent to fully exploit it? It would be nice to be able to get into a shootout and have the other team outgunned for once, because I think we may have one with Arkansas this year. My fear is, we can score, but if it comes down to a clutch FG, we may be screwed there…..

"We don't have to ride around in limos to sell recruits. We have over 57 years of NFL coaching experience on Alabama's coaching staff. Thats what we sell."
Coach Nick Saban

by mrpelicanpants on Aug 16, 2010 12:06 PM CDT reply actions  

There is going to be room for improvement

Literally. Our average starting field position is probably going to be significantly worse this season in light of the facts that our defense will likely be more bendy and we probably won’t have a punt/kick returner as effective as Arenas. Also, you have to expect that our offense is going get penalized more this year simply due to regression to the mean. Maybe not any more false start type penalties, but definitely more holding.

Particularly if we end up penalized more this year, we will need a better down field passing attack (15+ yds in the air, not just 40 yd bombs) in order to sustain drives as well as we did last year.

by krnxprs on Aug 16, 2010 12:08 PM CDT reply actions  

Good stuff but...

Isn’t this like the chicken and egg debate?

Countless times we have heard their philosophy is to take what the opponent gives you. So my humble (and somewhat ignorant) perspective is that it’s a lot of factors that dictate how the deep pass gets dialed up during the course of the game. Some examples include:

- The middle of the schedule represented the MEAT where defenses were just better
- Less opportunity for time to throw coupled with less risk from faster pass rush
- GMAC admits to a confidence issue (first game experience from serious pass rush)
- GMAC later admits to a “trust” issue with his receivers and their routes
- McElwain seems to be a conservative/ball control play caller (Saban seems to favor this as well)
- Saban is a down and distance (D&D) guy where the spot on the field coupled with D&D dictate your options
- Articles with coaches comments of going with who is hot for that game (run vs. pass)
- GMAC check downs (is this GMAC, McElwain or Saban)

So in summary, totally agree that success should be determined by personnel plus the context of the situation. If the deep pass is dialed up, what is the success within those attempts? That should be a more viable measuring stick since there’s so much other stuff infuencing what/when the option is chosen.

My $.02.

by Bamapride on Aug 16, 2010 12:29 PM CDT reply actions  

I can see a lot of that factoring in

And I’m certainly glad we have a guy who knows how to check down when the situation calls for it. But I also think if our O line can give him some time, he can afford to make all his reads and get something better than a checkdown pass.

"You know, we had a lot of fun tonight. But there's nothing funny about vapor lock! It's the third most common cause of cars stalling. So please, take care of your car and get it checked!" -Joe Namath

by billycthulhu on Aug 16, 2010 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

All will be fine as long as he gets the ball...

to his playmakers, those wearing #22,#8,#3,#4 and #15….good things seem to happen even on the shortest of passes…I think Julio is a beast, but I think he will just get the yardage this go ’round instead of trying to be a hero and giving piggy back rides to secondaries and wind up getting hurt. Not really being a diva like TO and stepping outta bounds to avoid getting hit, but getting the yards and all he can without putting himself at risk for injury.

"We don't have to ride around in limos to sell recruits. We have over 57 years of NFL coaching experience on Alabama's coaching staff. Thats what we sell."
Coach Nick Saban

by mrpelicanpants on Aug 16, 2010 2:23 PM CDT reply actions  

Just one note.....

Being as we have watched this team grow and mature on offense, what do you think Saban, or McElwain goes to for a play on these scenarios(ball is near midfield out of FG range, whatever range that is gonna be):

3 and 5 or less?
3 and 5 or more?

"We don't have to ride around in limos to sell recruits. We have over 57 years of NFL coaching experience on Alabama's coaching staff. Thats what we sell."
Coach Nick Saban

by mrpelicanpants on Aug 16, 2010 2:26 PM CDT reply actions  

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