Affecting the Quarterback
by Bamagrad on Sep 22, 2010 6:59 PM CDT
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PrintOne of the issues I've recently seen debated amongst the fine people at Roll Bama Roll is the Crimson Tide's pass rush (or statistical lack thereof). In simple terms, sacks get a lot of attention. They're easily recognized and often provide iconic images of some unsuspecting quarterback being contorted painfully by the shoulder of an edge rusher.
But sacks, like interceptions--or strikeouts in baseball--are not always a great indication of great defense. The primary purpose of a pass rush--as some of you have indicated--isn't to get sacks. The purpose of the blitz isn't to get sacks. It is, as Saban has articulated, to affect the quarterback adversely. Don't misunderstand, sacks are great and we all enjoy seeing a quarterback not in an Alabama uniform getting knocked on his back, but the real reason defenses want to get pressure is to hurry the throw. And by hurry the throw, that literally means all of this:
1. Make the quarterback throw before the receivers have finished their routes
2. Make the quarterback throw before he's set his feet (when he's off balance, affecting his accuracy)
3. Force the quarterback to step away from his protection
4. Force the quarterback to throw into the teeth of your coverage, thus raising the chance for a turnover or stop
5. Force the offensive coordinator to call predictable plays, limit his receivers, and use hard to execute two and three step drops. This is usually the way teams have to play us, which means their line will be cutting the defenders and the ball will be coming out of the quarterback's hand quickly. Against calls like this--which we've seen a lot of recently--a front seven of Howie Long, Deacon Jones, Lawrence Taylor, Rickey Jackson, and Jared Allen isn't going to get any sacks.
Two and three step drops might seem safe, but against good press coverage they're not going to yield much of a gain consistently. At some point, an offense will have to use a longer drop and beat the coverage vertically. When they do this, they will have to protect AND execute a good throw. Saban, like many defensive minds, knows this, and he knows that the deeper routes are harder to throw and he knows they have a lower chance of success.
That's why he insists his players cover the middle of the field and jump the flat. Simply stated, if you're going to beat Saban's Alabama, you're going to have to go down field which means you're going to have to drop back, protect your quarterback, and execute a precise pass down field. You can use Play Action to buy time, but that means you have to have had some success (or threat) of running the ball. You can also hope for a breakdown in coverage, but again, that's hoping for too much and it forces you to protect your quarterback. You can convince yourself you can throw quick slants with continuous success, but against a Saban defense, that's highly unlikely, and at some point he'll anticipate it and force the quarterback to throw a slant into some variation of cover two, thus eating it up.
Remember, a defense wants an offense to run a lot of plays to score. By doing this, a defense increases the offense's chances of making penalties, turning the ball over, and failing to execute by their own account (overthrows, drops, et cetera...make an offense put together long disciplined drives because truthfully, most can't do it consistently).
Again, the more a defense can force an offense do to be successful, the better. So I wouldn't worry so much about the low sack numbers until it's time to worry. We're still keeping teams out of the end zone. We're still forcing them to execute at a high rate to beat us (with a few exceptions). If Ryan Mallet can drop back, set his feet, and fire without defenders affecting his feet and balance, we'll have problems. But I'll tell you right now he's not built to throw the quick stuff continuously without misfiring (especially when it's 100 miles per hour). He's certainly not renowned for his footwork.
So we don't need to sack him. We need to affect him because he has yet to show he can move in the pocket and throw against a disciplined defense. If he has protection and can drop back unencumbered, he'll beat us downfield the same way Florida and Utah beat us down field in 2008. We need to rush him in every sense of the word.
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I wholeheartedly agree...
Couldn’t have said it better myself. I could careless about sacks as long as we keep them out of the endzone and to a lesser extent out of field goal range.
(Disclaimer: This is The GTO Judge’s mobile posts so you are being warned of the following: The Judge can not spell and his grammar ain’t no good. In addition, these are the ramblings of a Lawyer/Rockstar/Crimson Tide fan with very little football knowledge outside of the SEC. One more thing, My Judge is Carousel Red not F’ing orange. I hate orange!)
by TheGTOJudge on Sep 22, 2010 7:06 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Well Said!
I don’t care about the number of sacks. The point is to keep the QB from doing his job and however we do that works for me.
Bama's Pluck and Grit have Writ Her Name in Crimson Flame
Ellis Johnson
stood in front of the entire defense one year and he asked this exact question.
“Why do we rush the quarterback?”
Someone answered, “To sack him.” Ellis said, “No, we want him to throw before the receivers have finished their routes.” He showed some clips on the screen and I got it. It’s nice to put a shot on the QB, but it’s also nice to force an incomplete pass.
I remember watching another game in which one of our opponents threw only slip screens and quick passes. Ellis said it was all right even though we weren’t sacking or hitting the quarterback. In his opinion, we’d forced them into a style of play with which they couldn’t beat us.
"You give me Jim McMahon and Jim Thorpe and I'll beat any team you put in front of me." -- Larry Johnsonasia, offensive coordinator Lincoln High School, 1987
Against calls like this—which we’ve seen a lot of recently—a front seven of Howie Long, Deacon Jones, Lawrence Taylor, Rickey Jackson, and Jared Allen isn’t going to get any sacks.
Der, because they’re playing down two guys.
Did you really need me to list a full front seven?
"You give me Jim McMahon and Jim Thorpe and I'll beat any team you put in front of me." -- Larry Johnsonasia, offensive coordinator Lincoln High School, 1987
Completely agree. With respect to this Saturday, I just want to see Mallett play no better than he played against Georgia. I know a lot of writers have gushed, and he became the lead for many stories, but I watched that game, and not only was Georgia’s pass defense pathetic, Mallett himself looked very uneven. At times, he seemed quite precise, but many times, forced passes, or sloppy passes, looked fairly unimpressive.
You can't win. You can't break even. You can't get out of the game.
Must concur with this assessment.
Sacks matter, but not nearly as much as controlling the line of scrimmage, setting the tone / tempo of the game, consistently affecting the QB in particular and the offense as a whole, as you all are saying.
Take the easy throws away. Make Mallett move his feet, go down all his reads, and — like Tebow in ‘09 — beat you by making good decisions, under pressure, and then executing. Odds are he can’t do it.
Saban’s defensive philosophy combined with the prep for AR’s specific challenges will have us ready. Now, just execute and make it happen!
Good article/point.
However against Duke, at least to me, it did not seem like we were even distrupting their QB that much. I did see a lot of dropped passes by Duke and some passes that were badly thrown, but from where I was sitting in the stands, admittedly a bad seat, it did not seem that we were disrupting their passing game.
And, although Mallet is not mobile…I think if we do not get to him and really pressure him to the point where he is at least hit as he is throwing etc. he can gain confidence and complete a lot of passes for short and even long gains. I’m not saying roughing the passer stuff but he needs to know if he stands in there and follows through on his throws and throws on time etc. he is going to get hit.
As much as I hate Auburn I hate Tenn. that much more.
more importantly...
Do you like the Tide minus the 7’?
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success" - Coach Bryant
by TopDaddy on Sep 22, 2010 9:19 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I took it.
But I took it before it turned in to 7.5.
"The first person I would like to thank is the good Lord, for giving me the ability to play the game of football. Because without the ability to play the game I would have been at Auburn." - Marty Lyons
by crimsonpride19 on Sep 22, 2010 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions
5'?
Seems to be the number all the earlybirds got.
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success" - Coach Bryant
by TopDaddy on Sep 23, 2010 1:53 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I've never been an early bird.
I don’t like birds at all really.
"The first person I would like to thank is the good Lord, for giving me the ability to play the game of football. Because without the ability to play the game I would have been at Auburn." - Marty Lyons
by crimsonpride19 on Sep 23, 2010 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions
You have to go for a sack.
It seems to me a defense has to make its best shot at sacking the QB. That is what gets him disrupted that is by almost getting to him. If he knows you are just going to try to disrupt he is more relaxed makes better decisions. And not ony him but you yourself if you know you are only trying to try to bother him, then you will come with less than your best effort. I think you come at him breathing fire and brimstone making the ground shake as you come. Then you hit hard enough to make him not get his breath until the play after next or when he gets to his bench. And it hurts bad as he tries to get himself together. Ask Clemson whether they would have rather had just a bother to Parker or that kidney shot that really disrupted him and the Clemson passing game.
I see your Parker...
…and raise you a Marino. The best quarterbacks thrive on that contact in the pocket and revel in the fact they complete their passes in the face of your pressure.
We can respectfully disagree, but I’d rather disrupt the QB every play than to get one or two good hits on him.
It's not what you've done but what you are doing that matters.
And the roses in this grand ol' stadium are once again Crimson. - Eli Gold, CTSN Broadcast of the BCS Championship Game at the Rose Bowl, 1-7-2010
by AlabamaJammer on Sep 22, 2010 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd rather disrupt him every play and get 3 or 4 good hits on him.
I get the point that you want to make him throw before he’s ready. But I also think that each lick you get on him adds up. Don’t we talk about that with every other position? We like that our OL grinds on the opposing DL and that our receivers and RBs take out some aggression on opposing CBs. Why would the quarterback be different?
If I'm wearing a turban, it means Auburn is playing Iraq.
Okay, maybe it should have been said this way...
…with a QB with such a quick release like Mallet has, it’s better to constantly disrupt the patterns and flow than to extend just for that shot on him.
I’m not saying I would forsake hitting him, but if the choice is 3-4 plays of putting him on his ass and he doesn’t complete the pass and has 30-50 plays where he’s has a chance to complete his motion vs disrupting his whole world without the hit for 30-50 plays, 100% disruption plays better for the odds.
It's not what you've done but what you are doing that matters.
And the roses in this grand ol' stadium are once again Crimson. - Eli Gold, CTSN Broadcast of the BCS Championship Game at the Rose Bowl, 1-7-2010
by AlabamaJammer on Sep 22, 2010 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I just don't understand why they would be mutually exclusive.
Maybe I’m missing something. Is there some tactic that would make us more likely to get a sack but LESS likely to rush the passer?
I understand what’s being said above, that the fact that we’re getting sacks could be because the offenses have thrown quicker passes, because of our pressure. And that those passes are less likely to beat us. So in that way the DL has had a positive impact even if they never get to the QB. But as Bob says, that doesn’t mean you’re not pressuring and not trying to get the sack.
If I'm wearing a turban, it means Auburn is playing Iraq.
…guess I was saying if it’s either/or and not both. Sorry for being clear as mud.
I sure as hell would love to put any QB on the ground, but not at the cost of consistently influencing every play.
It's not what you've done but what you are doing that matters.
And the roses in this grand ol' stadium are once again Crimson. - Eli Gold, CTSN Broadcast of the BCS Championship Game at the Rose Bowl, 1-7-2010
by AlabamaJammer on Sep 23, 2010 7:33 AM CDT up reply actions
That's what I'm asking though,
why would it be either/or?
If I'm wearing a turban, it means Auburn is playing Iraq.
…because that is the stipulation I put upon the situation. No real reasoning except to say if it’s either/or and not both.
Do I really need a reason? (that sounds really assholeish, but it’s not inteneded that way)
It's not what you've done but what you are doing that matters.
And the roses in this grand ol' stadium are once again Crimson. - Eli Gold, CTSN Broadcast of the BCS Championship Game at the Rose Bowl, 1-7-2010
by AlabamaJammer on Sep 23, 2010 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions
The key phrase is
throw against a disciplined defense.
We haven’t displayed disciplined play like last year’s D. We out-talent last year’s D by miles but talent won’t overcome lack of discipline in pass coverage against a QB like Mallet.
Can we remain disciplined in coverage against an up-tempo offense that will make completions no matter how well we play on D?
I look at it this way.
Mallett is very good at his position, but he has a history of performing poorly when hurried. Forget the sacks. I’ll take our D-line at any amount to keep him plenty uncomfortable, significantly diminish his pocket ability, and force him into scrambling (which is NOT his strong suit) or operating from the gun and forcing him to beat us long.
Will he get a few long ones past us? Yeah. But this is a team that blew a 2 touchdown lead in the 4th to a Georgia team that has an offense that qualifies as anemic at best. Arkansas pulls out a last minute victory against a team that is vastly inferior. Does that make this a lock? Of course not. This is almost always a competitive game and I expect Arkansas to give it their best shot, since beating us is their only hope of a shot at the SEC. However, when it comes down to it, I just don’t see them being able to hang with us. Our defense, even performing at less than optimal levels, still makes the Georgia defense that nearly held Mallett look like a scout team.
However when
comparing UGA to Bama we forget that UGA was home and we are on the road. Aside from 08, when things went our way big time, we have struggled in Fayetteville against Arky teams that we were often the better team. We lost in 06 on missed kicks, we lost in 04 when we had blown our 1st 3 opponets out, in 2000 we played terrible and in 1998 we were ranked, they were not and we got blown out 42-6 in one of the worst Bama loses of all time. We did win in 2002 Shaud Williams got lose on the 1st play and we never looked back.
But I would say since 1998, with a 2-4 record in Fayetteville, this has to be one of the worse places we play ever other year. Since that time we are 4-2 in Oxford, 2-4 in Knoxville, 3-3 in Baton Rouge, 3-3 in Starkville and 3-3 in Auburn. And I don’t fear Knoxville this year near like a fear Fayeteville.
As much as I hate Auburn I hate Tenn. that much more.
The biggest difference
is who was coaching then as opposed to who is BAMA’s coach now. CNS will have the team ready.
ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!!!
by alanbama14 on Sep 23, 2010 6:11 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ordinarily I'd agree with you
but I think that the ‘08 team is a much more similar picture to the team we’re fielding now, as opposed to the other teams you listed. I don’t put an awful lot of stock in Arky’s home advantage. In the past Arkansas had a lot of decent depth across the roster, and I don’t see that as being the case now. They are always an unpredictable, scary team, but honestly they are way less unpredictable under Petrino than they were under Nutt. With a Nutt team you just have no idea what they will do at any given moment. It could be off the scale crazy. Petrino is somewhat more stable, and therefore, imho, somewhat easier to gameplan. Despite the media hype, one mutant QB does not a championship team make.
Not to sound like I discount them, because I don’t discount anyone. They have enough threats to challenge us…I just don’t see them being able to compete for 4 entire quarters.
Yep
We have to sustain coverage down field and when we bring pressure we have to be all over Childs and Company. I’ll be curious to see how we play their tight end, too.
"You give me Jim McMahon and Jim Thorpe and I'll beat any team you put in front of me." -- Larry Johnsonasia, offensive coordinator Lincoln High School, 1987
This
The TE is a concern for me because I see us much more vulnerable to giving up midrange over the middle dink and dump stuff. Will Lester get burned for a few long ones? Probably. But I’ll concede the occasional long yardage pass to a day of consistent 10 to 15 yard pickups over the middle.
by Peyton on Sep 23, 2010 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed, and +1...
the middle of the field may be the “be all, end all” for Mallett…it will be interesting to see who draws the responsibility of single coverage on their mammoth TE. All indications point to Jerrell, who has the athletic ability to run with him. Whether Jerrell can hang in there and make plays, down after down, and stop this guy remains to be seen. Who do you put on him if Harris gets blowed up? That’ll be the matchup I watch,along with whoever lines up in the slot against Menzie. I wanna see if all this “aggressive” talk from Petrino is real, or if he’s setting his team up to get their collective souls crushed…..awaiting rock band pun response…..
"...because you've got your mind right, and that's the way we like it." Nick Saban
Exactly.
Their TE is a hoss, probably the single most intimidating player on their offense outside of Mallett. Though, to be honest, I see Mallett as a one trick pony. Cannon arm. Scrambler? Nope. Option QB? Nada. Not even really a smart game manager, though he’s capable of finding receivers when he needs to. The TE could eat us up with short passes, middle screens…and that does pose exactly the question you brought up. If Harris gets a double team push to the outside, how do we structure an effective zone coverage that will accommodate for the TE and not leave the corners exposed for a long one? I trust the coaches to plan effectively, but it will be interesting to see how that particular chess match plays out.
We are 2nd in the nation . . .
. . . in passing efficiency defense and 2nd in the nation in scoring defense. The lack of sacks doesn’t seem to be bringing us down too much.
I don’t think stats really reflect how our D is going to perform, the sample size and quality of competition is too small. We have to look at what they actually did in the game, not the stats. And in the games, there have been areas that a good team could exploit on our D. That being said, I think our Offense is better than theirs and our Defense is better than theirs. I’m nervous, but confident in the process.
by dixiefootballpride44 on Sep 22, 2010 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I take your point . . .
. . . but Duke has a top 25 passing attack, Penn State is a top 25 team, and San Jose St. scared Wisconsin in Madison.
There are certainly limits to what one should make of the stats. However, I offered these in the contexts of a discussion of another stat, the number of sacks we have gotten in the first game.
I whole heartedly agree with the post
I think sacks as a statistic are somewhat over-rated. To me, if a team is giving up a lot of them it really tells one of two things; either the QB is an idiot and will hold the ball forever and allow himself to be sacked or, your OL is just a bunch of pure awful and getting whipped on every play.
What I really am excited to see in this match up is how are defense does against what is sure to be a future NFL QB who is without a doubt the best QB we will see all of our scheduled season. Can we hurry Mallet into poor throws? Can we confuse him with disguised coverages and faux blitz packages in a similiar way as last season? If we can answer yes to both at the end of the game, we will have walked away an easy victory. If the answer is no, we will be in an absolute dogfight with them. Talk is cheap, but we will find out Saturday a lot about our young defense.
Which brings me to an off topic point, am I the only one in the world looking at these spread offenses as gimmicky? I just don’t get it, I know people want to get their best atheletes in open spaces, but to me it sort of sends a signal that you don’t have the ability to man up and play any sort of smash mouth game. In looking at recent National Championship teams, I noticed something, outside of Florida. In the past five years, no one using the spread has won a title outside of Florida (and really in only one of the two years the won it). The year Florida did win with it, they had something on their side that was unusual in the form of Tebow, who I think all of us would agree is something of an exceptional talent in that he could take a beating and still be very effective. I don’t think that Denard Robinson will last an entire Big Ten Season without getting hurt running this offense; and if he were playing down here doing that I think Rich-Rod might get charged with attempted murder. I just wonder if a lot of traditional powers have gotten caught up in the spread mania and forgotten that in football, beating the hell of a defense physically is a consistent formula for victory.
Since we are playing on of the few other teams like ourselves who run as close to a pro-set (minus the whole running the ball thing) in the college as you will see, I just thought I would question the spread.
I think another very important question
for all of us who have seen our Quarterbacks get repeatedly knocked around over the past few years has to do with Arkansas’ ability to affect OUR Quarterback. With them currently leading the league in sacks I wonder if our rushing threat will be able to slow down their pass rush enough and also if our play action will be able to catch them out of position often enough. I tend to believe McElwain will keep them guessing enough to allow McElroy plenty of opportunities to make big plays.
by Section 8 Redshirt on Sep 23, 2010 7:40 AM CDT reply actions
Well, seems like it could be about
how many bodies are in the box?
If the box is stacked, then we go to Jones, Maze, Hanks, et al.
Box not stacked, run over ’em.
From the beginning of the season
I’ve thought our lack of blitzing has been by design – up until tomorrow. We’ll see, but I think Mallett deserves (and will get) an entirely different game plan. We sent Arenas – a guy almost a foot shorter – to blitz him last year, for cripes sake.
The guy is 6'7''
I guess we should have sent all of our 6’6’’ DBs to blitz him – that woulda showed him!
I know Arenas was small, but I don’t know that being 6’2’’ is going to help you all that much back there. And with Arenas’ tackling abilities, I’m not sure height has a whole lot to do with it. Arenas could tackle, and if he’d had a chance (and I don’t remember if he did) I’m sure he could’ve taken him down. However, even if he got in the neighborhood of Mallett, that still forces him to throw on the run, sooner, less accurately, etc. And that is what Bamagrad’s point was in the article.
"Let's go be champions, boys!" - Greg McElroy
(Formerly SugarBowl93)
by RememberTheRoseBowl on Sep 23, 2010 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Call me old fashioned . . .
but I still like sacks.
by Son of Roaring Dan on Sep 23, 2010 8:25 AM CDT reply actions
I don’t think he said that he don’t want to get sacks. We’d love to get sacks, but it’s not the goal. Our goal is to affect the quarterback and force him to make bad plays. For example, at least 3 of our INT’s came on plays that were almost sacks, i.e., where we affected the quarterback. Would you have had sacks in those situations?
Werent we supposed to learn
a lot about our team against PSU? Werent we supposed to learn a lot about our D against Duke?
We have learned a lot and it has been positive. We appear up to the task against Arky. They are known for doing a lay down when things get tough, see: all road games 2009 minus FL.
We focus a great deal on our D on this site, with good reason. D is our weakness, such as it is.
If I were and pig fan, my concern would be how to stop the Bama offensive machine. Too many highly skilled players. And the Arky D gave up two deep balls late in the game against GA. Note to Bobo: why didnt you try deep balls earlier? CNS says deep balls are critical to O performance, even if deep passes are incomplete. Arky D has looked better this year, but c’mon, they will be facing the best offense in the SEC.
Bama 37 Arky 23.
This comment came up this week...
Mallett’s statement from earlier this week probably raised a few eyebrows at the Alabama football complex. When asked about the Crimson Tide’s pass rush last year, he responded: “I really don’t think that had anything to do with the outcome.”
Article here.
I like Alabama’s response,
“Right now, we’re licking our chops. We’re ready to play and show the world what we can do against one of the top teams.”
— Alabama LB Jerrell Harris, when asked if he was looking forward to a big game.
from al.com article here.
Unity begins with the understanding that everyone is different and to accept them as such. - Confucius
Mallett's height
must be resulting in some oxygen deprivation. Or he’s on crack.
The pass rush had nothing to do with a complete 35-7 beating? So I suppose his answer to their being 16-41 for 191 yards and one pick in that game is due solely to his incompetence or his receivers sucking? What a whiner.
It was Justin Bieber's fault...
Or ’cause Colt McCoy got hurt….
Blame Canada….
Oxygen deprivation still wins. Could be meth or crack, though…
He's in Arkansas...
…it’s all meth and truck stops out there.
"...because you've got your mind right, and that's the way we like it." Nick Saban
Burnwell has nothing on that whole state.
It's not what you've done but what you are doing that matters.
And the roses in this grand ol' stadium are once again Crimson. - Eli Gold, CTSN Broadcast of the BCS Championship Game at the Rose Bowl, 1-7-2010
by AlabamaJammer on Sep 24, 2010 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I also
love the remark Harris makes in the article where he basically states that the D has been holding back. From all the practice reports, we’ve been moving a ton of guys around in the front 7 and that to me says we are going to come at Arky from all angles.
I agree...
I’m ready for the quote “Make Their Ass Quit” to come front and center.
I’m also ready for this…
To fast to be in focus !!
Unity begins with the understanding that everyone is different and to accept them as such. - Confucius
The one thing I can't stand about "pressuring the QB"
is those (#$( times when we get pressure and some one gets caught looking at the cheerleaders and breaks of coverage or a QB /WR are so in sync that the WR makes a play for his scrambling QB. That stuff pisses me off (unless it’s GMAC making it happen) A sack takes that away. They lose down and distance and understand that it’s going to happen again. Pressuring a lesser QB is sufficient Sacking a talented QB seems more likely to kill a drive.
Yeah, but I’d rather get a little pressure, force a bad pass, and get the INT than get the sack. So far this year we’re averaging 1 INT a game more and 1 sack less than we did a year ago. And, IIRC, at least 3 of those INTs we got were because we were getting pressure on the QB, i.e., almost sacked the QB, and he mad a bad throw.
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