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The Dangers of Chop Blocking

ed.- bumped from the fanposts

Chopping, cutting, chop blocking...call it whatever you want, but the act of hitting a defender in his shins to nullify him is as dangerous now as it ever was.  Every coach I've ever encountered has spoken of its perils.  And some, have gone as far to say that while chopping is dangerous, it's not even the most destructive blocking technique.  That honor, it should be noted, goes to the practice of Roll Blocking.  Don't be surprised if you haven't heard of it.  Officials would refer to it as tripping.  But old timers...they know all about it.

We don't see roll blocks anymore because they're even more dangerous and deliberate than chop blocks and no one, no matter how stupid, would attempt to do something that would so easily earn a penalty.  The only reason I even know of this block is that I once coached with an old school guy who showed me the technique on a blocking dummy.  Basically, a player would try to cut off a defender at his side (think edge of shoulder to thigh and knee) and then, while the defender tried to fight through him, the blocker would literally push his body into the defender's.  Engaged with the defender, he would quickly drop and roll around, thus latching onto the defender's leg and foot, and tripping him (as well as likely injuring him).  If someone did this now, they'd likely earn a tripping penalty and whatever else the officials deemed appropriate.

Still, chopping is one of those things that football coaches acknowledge as dangerous.  Teams don't chop their own players at practice.  In drills, the block is performed on bags.  In scrimmages, offensive players usually tell the scout team defender, "Hey, it's a quick slant...you're getting cut" and both men will engage and kneel at the snap.  In scrimmages between first team units, the offensive players will usually use a different technique.  Offenses do this because they know exactly how dangerous hitting a man below the knees can be.

It takes very little for the procedure to go horribly wrong.  And coaches are aware of it.  I can remember going to a MLB baseball camp when I was a teenager.  The middle infield coach from the Cincinnati ("Cincinnata" to the Kentucky Kinfolk) Reds demonstrated how a second baseman or shortstop should be positioned at the bag on a double play.  He stressed to keep the knees bent and weight on the balls of the feet because the sliding player could likely chop out your legs.  He said if you weren't ready your knees would be ripped apart.  And that was in baseball.

So imagine in football, where the players are much bigger and stronger, how damaging this can be.  As an offensive player, the only safe way to cut is to hit the defender when he's straight in front of you.  Anything to the side is dangerous and frowned upon.  That said, the fact Arkansas players and Auburn players in the past (don't forget about Glenn Dorsey and Dan Williams) have earned a reputation for using these blocks in unsafe situations warrants some suspicion as to what their motivation is.  And it warrants some line of questioning for their coaches.  Was Wade Grayson really just trying to block Marcell Dareus on that slip screen?  When two players "high and low" a defender, is it really an accident or missed assignment?  And how can professional coaches--regardless of the pressure to win and disappointment of losses--stand behind players who have arguably tried to injury other players with impunity? 

I personally think Wade Grayson should be questioned about what he did to Dareus.  He should have to stand before a crowd and explain what he was doing as footage of that play runs continuously.  I think Ryan Pugh should be questioned in the same fashion for some of his past blocks.  It's only appropriate because there is no place for that kind of play in football.  It's dirty.  And if they're going to protect quarterbacks and receivers with hitting restrictions, they damn sure better protect defensive players.  If that means chopping is outlawed altogether, so be it. You'll have to block a man on your feet.  Oh, no! 

Everyone wants to win, but deliberately blasting into the side of a player's knee to hurt him is tantamount to shooting a fawn or a man punching a woman.  It's cheap, low class, and completely uncalled for.  I don't care if it's a heated rivalry and you don't want to lose and you're envious of the attention heaped upon another player.  You don't do something like that.  Bring Wade Grayson and Bobby Petrino to the podium.  Now.

FanPosts are just that; posts created by the fans. They are in no way indicative of the opinions of SBN and the authors of Roll Bama Roll.

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I couldn't agree with you more.

Very nice post, kudos. BTW do you have any footage of a rolling block, it almost sounds like a UFC move.

(Disclaimer: This is The GTO Judge’s mobile posts so you are being warned of the following: The Judge can not spell and his grammar ain’t no good. In addition, these are the ramblings of a Lawyer/Rockstar/Crimson Tide fan with very little football knowledge outside of the SEC. One more thing, My Judge is Carousel Red not F’ing orange. I hate orange!)

by TheGTOJudge on Sep 30, 2010 7:25 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

I don't have any footage and I can't think of any plays

where someone did it. Interestingly, the only people I know who’ve ever talked about it are older guys. The guy who demonstrated it darted to the side of the bag (his left rib cage against what would be the knees) and then used his right arm to spin back and roll through the bag. You can imagine what this would do to a defender who:

1. Doesn’t see it coming
2. Is running against the roll in pursuit

If someone did this and they caught the defender right they could injure him severely. My guess is that someone like Conrad Dobler—or other players from that era (one of the guys who knew about it was in the NFL then)—might have resorted to something like this to get revenge on someone who’d gouged him or hit him in the balls.

My step dad is about 80 and he played HS football in the 1950s. He knew all about it also.

"You give me Jim McMahon and Jim Thorpe and I'll beat any team you put in front of me." -- Larry Johnsonasia, offensive coordinator Lincoln High School, 1987

by Bamagrad on Sep 30, 2010 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

I am old enough to

have played when coaches taught roll blocking. But then again there were a lot of dumb things that were legal back then. It took them forever to outlaw the wedge blocking on KOs and I tell you that was dangerous. And, the horse collar was a preferred technique and using your head as a spear was pretty popular although pretty stupid.

As far as the chop, it should be illegal no two ways about it. I’m kinda surprised a fight did not break out on Sat. I think if I were Dareus I would be furious. That guy could have cost him millions.

As much as I hate Auburn I hate Tenn. that much more.

by 5026 on Sep 30, 2010 8:08 PM CDT reply actions  

Did they teach you to roll block as a means

to seal a defender on a sweep or toss outside? Did they want you to do it to trip them? What was the logic then? I’m curious because I have seen it—now that I think about it—in some of the old black and white clips from the 1950s and I know it went on after that, but I can’t recall seeing it elsewhere.

"You give me Jim McMahon and Jim Thorpe and I'll beat any team you put in front of me." -- Larry Johnsonasia, offensive coordinator Lincoln High School, 1987

by Bamagrad on Sep 30, 2010 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

In the 60's in HS I was

playing DB, they didn’t teach me to do it, but they taught our offense guys to do it when we ran a toss sweep. They use to roll up one guy and kinda cause a road block of bodies falling everywhere. I mean it was a very effective way of getting around the corner past the end etc. It was especially effective when the defender was not looking. It took some skill to do and not all the guys were fast enough, quick enough to get to a guys feet. I remember they would be on your feet in a blink of an eye.

As much as I hate Auburn I hate Tenn. that much more.

by 5026 on Sep 30, 2010 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

But then again there were a lot of dumb things that were legal back then.

You could also clothesline a player back then without penalty. My best friend’s father played in the NFL in the 60’s and he had all kinds of stories about tricks they’d use to inflict pain on other people. He made it seem like trying to take a guy’s knees out was the equivalent of throwing a beanball in baseball. In other words, you’d open up a can of worms and guys would bite, punch and grab testicles, and put a roll of quarters in their fist.

"You give me Jim McMahon and Jim Thorpe and I'll beat any team you put in front of me." -- Larry Johnsonasia, offensive coordinator Lincoln High School, 1987

by Bamagrad on Sep 30, 2010 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Those were the days...

the days off no teeth for football players.

As much as I hate Auburn I hate Tenn. that much more.

by 5026 on Sep 30, 2010 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

I could be mistaken...

But I could have sworn I saw a video on the local news back in the 90’s where Fulmer was demonstrating roll blocking to the Viles. Before the Alabama game no less…

by AThomas77 on Oct 1, 2010 8:45 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Why would I not be surprised

As much as I hate Auburn I hate Tenn. that much more.

by 5026 on Oct 1, 2010 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

I have been saying this for the last few years to friends and fellow fans

Cut blocking needs to go all together. Its just to dangerous, and as I have grown older I have increasingly gotten tired of seeing players get hurt (on our side or the other). I realize that the practice gives offenses some stragetic advantage, but I just don’t think its worth it; especially at the amateur level. There have been many advances in the rules that are designed to keep players on the field and prevent injuries, and I think its time that this is instituted as well. When a player is hurt from this technique, it robs the fans of getting to see that player develop and it robs the player from potentially ever playing again, let alone at the same level. When I was a bit younger, I didn’t really care about injuries nor take much interest into why they happen. I just figured it was part of the game at this level and thats life. As I have gotten older, I have realized that there are freak injuries and needless injuries. Freak injuries are always going to be a part of the game. However, everything that can be done should be done to avoid the needless variety. In the case of cut blocking injuries, they are completely needless, and therefore, the rules need to change in my opinion to prevent these from happening.

Just a small example, I am willing to bet that prior to the horse collar tackle rule, probably about 3 of those kind of plays happened per game. Since the institution of the 15 yard penalty for doing it, I would say we see happen about once every 3 games; and the vast majority of the time its completely accidental. My point is, players will adapt and some of the “accidental” cut blocks will basically dissapear.

Bangs and bruises and freak injuries are acceptable to me; thats football. Engaging in a known technique that is without question dangerous, I just find to be unacceptable. The NCAA competition committee really needs to address this issue, and they need to have done it yesterday.

by BamaThrasher on Sep 30, 2010 11:07 PM CDT reply actions  

Totally agree

As much as I hate Auburn I hate Tenn. that much more.

by 5026 on Oct 1, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Outstanding piece.

You should really send that to a state paper or something. The topic needs all the exposure it can get. Great work.

"Let's go be champions, boys!" - Greg McElroy

(Formerly SugarBowl93)

by RememberTheRoseBowl on Sep 30, 2010 11:21 PM CDT reply actions  

Great write-up and I agree

Said yesterday that cut blocking should be banned except for protecting a passer in the pocket.

by J Tadpole on Oct 1, 2010 6:32 AM CDT reply actions  

Oh, and one thing

the words “chop” and “cut” aren’t interchangeable in this instance. A “chop block” is a high-low tandem block where one player stands the defender up (like a tree perhaps?) while another “chops” him down. This is obviously dangerous because the defender is completely defenseless to the low block, and is outlawed, One-on-one blocks below the waist are “cut” blocks that you are arguing against.

by J Tadpole on Oct 1, 2010 6:38 AM CDT reply actions  

Question

I was watching Miami and NYJ on Sunday pm and they flagged a receiver for a “crack back block”. On replay, the receiver, who was in motion from the wide side of the field to the line of scrimmage, took out the knees of a linebacker who was moving to the wide side of the field to make the tackle. To me it looked like what is commonly called a cut block or what a lot of DBs do when making a tackle on a RB who has made it past the second level, they go low and take out the knees. Will you clarify b/w cut block and crack back block for me?

"It's not the size of the cat in the fight, it's size of the fight in the cat"

by thecalicocat on Oct 1, 2010 8:05 AM CDT reply actions  

a crack back block is a legal block basically against the flow of the play usually by a wideout but an illegal crack back block takes out the knees. there are some calculus type rules about when you can legally cut block, right at the line of scrimmage. I think people just like saying crack back because it sounds like some cool old leather helmet stuff.

towerofbammer.com: "full of factual inaccuracies"

by Alabama ManDance on Oct 1, 2010 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Actually

there aren’t any rules about cut blocking. It is perfectly legal to cut anyone at any time unless a) they are engaged with a blocker creating a “chop block” which is never legal b) the block is coming from the outside in, creating an “illegal crackback” or c) the block is coming from behind, which creates “clipping” (No block from behind is legal, but one below the waist carries 15 yards for obvious injury risk reasons. Most fans don’t know the difference between a “block in the back” and “clipping”.) More and more coaches are now lobbying for cut blocking to be outlawed, especially on running plays involving the interior lines.

by J Tadpole on Oct 1, 2010 11:26 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Also

cut blocks are never legal after a change of possession, e.g. kickoffs, punt returns, interceptions.

by krnxprs on Oct 1, 2010 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

Forgot that one. It’s a bit newer but makes a lot of sense.

by J Tadpole on Oct 1, 2010 11:38 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Good point about block in the back and clipping

it is never even explained correctly on TV

As much as I hate Auburn I hate Tenn. that much more.

by 5026 on Oct 1, 2010 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Speaking as a rabid Gator fan

with no particular reason to pull for LSU, (indeed, quite the opposite,) that block on Dorsey was one of the lowest things I’ve ever seen.

STR 11 DEX 14 CON 10 INT 16 WIS 14 CHA 16

by delicious.crab on Oct 1, 2010 8:56 AM CDT reply actions  

Well I can remember the blocks on Dorsey. When it get's bad enough to be called

out on TV, it’s bad. I noticed during the Bama All-Access stuff on ESPN and other places, Saban, Kirby Smart talk a lot about technique, tackeling as well as blocking. I don’t remember ever hearing college football coaches say that kids come for HS not knowing how to tackle.

There’s this notion out there now that certain schools roll block or chop block on purpose and are even taught to do so. If so, they are Evil Bastards, but beyond that, if it is true, then why can’t something be done about it? I’m tired of the NCAA worrying about players selling a stupid jersey when they should be worried about this type of crap.

There are going to be some accidental situtations but if a team shows a penchant for this sort of thing, they should be punished. The coaches should be fined. I actually would not think the video of the Dareus hit was any proof of Arky doing it but considering their unsportsmanlike conduct at the end of the game, they will have to prove their innocence to me.

Bama's Pluck and Grit have Writ Her Name in Crimson Flame

by TideFanAtlanta on Oct 1, 2010 11:23 AM CDT reply actions  

After reading this and being unable to find a video on the internet demonstrating the roll block, I was watching the NFLN series on the 100 Greatest NFL Players. They did Steve Van Buren and they showed multiple roll blocks against the grain. That shit is brutal looking with 225 pound guys doing it, I can’t imagine a 300 plus lineman doing it now. Career ending for the unlucky defender that is for sure.

I knew it was coming, but I wasn't thinking about it. So the intensity of the dump was the problem. - Nick Saban

by TheRedTideConsumes on Oct 1, 2010 1:13 PM CDT reply actions  

got chopblocked

a few weeks ago in scrimmage, bruised my acl and broke my thumb(fell foward and caught myself wrong)

by jakerout on Oct 1, 2010 7:06 PM CDT reply actions  

More Bamagrad...less Burton

It is good to see write-ups like this again. This, along with the one you did last week, is the reason I started to follow RBR. While the occasional Burtonism is funny, I hope we all can look at this post and be inspired.

That white stuff on the top of chickencrap...... is chickencrap.

by thrashcan on Oct 1, 2010 7:27 PM CDT reply actions   2 recs

Rec'd for truth.

"Let's go be champions, boys!" - Greg McElroy

(Formerly SugarBowl93)

by RememberTheRoseBowl on Oct 1, 2010 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

We will...

…see menny more posts like this, buyt not all….

"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban

by NiceLittleSaturday on Oct 1, 2010 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

rec'd for truth

whah wha waaaaaaaaa /sad trombone :(

The beauty of The Process is that you have never arrived, so you get to continue being perpetually awesome... -Espyonage

by tempebamafan on Oct 2, 2010 1:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

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