Four Game Suspension for A.J. Green
by outsidethesidelines on Sep 8, 2010 4:04 PM CDT
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PrintPer the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, the NCAA has officially ruled on Georgia wide receiver A.J. Green:
University of Georgia wide receiver A. J. Green must miss four games before being eligible to play again, the NCAA ruled late this afternoon.
Green was found to have violated the NCAA agent benefits rules by selling his Independence Bowl game jersey to an individual who meets the NCAA definition of an agent.
Green has repaid the $1,000 he received for the jersey to charity.
So, you guys still think the Dareus' punishment was too severe? Keep in mind that the monetary amount in question in the Dareus case was almost double the amount in question in the Green case. As Pete and myself mentioned several times, it could have been much, much worse, and I think this ruling is very telling of that. We ought to be counting our proverbial blessings that he will only miss the Penn State game. This could have easily gone further and I imagine it could have just as easily had him out until the Florida game, or perhaps further.
Regardless of that, for Green, I personally think the kid got hosed. UGA probably has ten of these damn things for sale right now, and it's easy to imagine far more egregious violations. One has to wonder if the NCAA felt that he wasn't being particularly honest with them. Moving forward, though, for UGA this is a big loss, because now their best player misses both the South Carolina and Arkansas games, as well as the Mississippi State game in three weeks.
And, with this as context, I think that pretty much confirms that National Football Post report from a couple of months ago regarding Marvin Austin. We won't be seeing that guy until the 2011 NFL Scouting Combine, and I imagine that could be the case for some others as well.
Note: hat tip to DocFumbles for the fanpost.
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1/3 of the season
For selling your own jersey. Maybe it was “wrong”, but this is crazy.
Agreed
Some people say "If you can't beat them, join them". I say "If you can't beat them, beat them", because they will be expecting you to join them, so you will have the element of surprise.
by BamaHadMeAtHello on Sep 8, 2010 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, the NCAA is in a rough spot with this one.
Is there really a difference between selling a jersey to an agent for a 1000% markup and the agent just giving you $1,000?
Selling the stuff was outlawed a few years ago for this exact reason, so it’s likely (although I don’t have the doc open) that this is the standard punishment for selling memorabilia.
I'm wrong all the time.
Couple of points...
I don’t know the exact value, of course, but I wouldn’t say it’s a 1000% markup. Most of these game-used jerseys I see online for big players tend to go for $500+, I think. Maybe $1,000 is a bit of a mark-up, but not necessarily anything overly crazy.
I tend to think they had a bigger issue with who he sold it to. I did find it interesting that the above link said that he sold it to someone who “meets the NCAA definition of an agent.” Maybe it’s just poor wording on their part, but they never actually said directly that it was an an actual agent. I don’t know, maybe that’s overthinking on my end, but that did jump out to me when I initially read it.
"Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." -- Milton Friedman
by outsidethesidelines on Sep 8, 2010 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, markup isn’t measured in terms of difference from average market price, it’s measured in terms of cost.
So 1000% isn’t probably accurate, as Green likely didn’t pay anything for it, but I doubt it cost UGA more than $100.
I'm wrong all the time.
Ah, gotcha...
In that case, 1000% is probably about right. I cannot imagine those jerseys costing UGA more than $100, and probably doesn’t cost them that much.
"Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." -- Milton Friedman
by outsidethesidelines on Sep 8, 2010 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions
that part definitely jumped out to me as well
"You know, we had a lot of fun tonight. But there's nothing funny about vapor lock! It's the third most common cause of cars stalling. So please, take care of your car and get it checked!" -Joe Namath
love the hipocracy there
and that the NCAA apparently doesn’t see it, or doesn’t give 2 sh*ts. (wonder which one it could be…)
“go ahead and sell as many AJ Green jerseys as you can, UGA, sell licensing rights to clothing manufacturers for exorbitant fees, as well as actively pursue anyone who might sell an unlicensed merchandise in court. just make sure a kid cant sell his own jersey off his own damn back once he no longer needs it. "
The beauty of The Process is that you have never arrived, so you get to continue being perpetually awesome... -Espyonage
It's certainly not hypocrisy
The players can’t sell merchandise for two reasons:
First, it calls into question their status as amateurs. (Whatever you might think about this rule, it is a rule)
Second, if allowed it provides a nice way to launder money from agents.
I'm wrong all the time.
What is to keep a player from
giving his jersey to a friend who in turn sells it?
But I agree players cannot sell their stuff until after eligibility.
However, in AJ’s case I think the NCAA is too harsh.
As much as I hate Auburn I hate Tenn. that much more.
Nothing
Unless that friend returns the money to the player, in which case it’s exactly the same as if he sold it himself.
I'm wrong all the time.
hmmm.... Can a player's friends get extra benefits?
My mind drifted to the Textbook-gate example. Our players’ friends were benefitting there and it was a major problem. But I guess the difference here is that the player was free to keep the jersey, or give it away (at no profit). But with the textbooks the player was actually getting something extra that he wasn’t entitled to.
If I'm wearing a turban, it means Auburn is playing Iraq.
Here is another one...and I'm serious
can Mark Ingram sell his old t-shirts on E-bay with his name written in the collar. If he could I’m sure some idiot would pay a couple of hundred bucks to have a shirt Ingram wore. I mean they are shirts he bought with his own money, he never wore them to play FB, he just decided to get rid of them.
As much as I hate Auburn I hate Tenn. that much more.
So a football player
does not have the same rights as other college students to sell his stuff to the highest bidder etc.
As much as I hate Auburn I hate Tenn. that much more.
That's true and false
A football player cannot profit off of their likeness. Ingram selling a used t-shirt for $150 because it’s his is directly profiting from his athletic ability.
Which calls into question his status as an amateur.
And the NCAA (for better or worse) pins its whole image and system to amateur athletics.
I'm wrong all the time.
No.
He cannot receive any benefit other than those approved by the NCAA (i.e., scholarships, etc.) by virtue of his status as a football player. It would be pretty easy to prove that he got a lot of money for his clothes b/c he was the Heisman Trophy winner.
If he did sell is clothes . . .
. . . while still in school, he would have to sell them at normal market value.
If I were an athlete
in the NCAA right now, I’d be scared to have a yard sale to sell my old clothes that don’t fit anymore. Even if I was selling them for 50 cents a shirt.
by BamaGirlinDallas on Sep 8, 2010 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions
but if they can do it, and players cant...
how is that not hypocrisy? cause they have those 2 “reasons”? sounds like BS to me. though reason # 2 seems like it could be a real issue…
The beauty of The Process is that you have never arrived, so you get to continue being perpetually awesome... -Espyonage
More importantly:
Who’s paying $1000 for an Independence Bowl jersey?!
If I'm wearing a turban, it means Auburn is playing Iraq.
Someone who will get 10% of Millions for the next few years...
"If wanting to win is a fault, as some of my critics seem to insist, then I plead guilty. I like to win. I know no other way. It's in my blood."- The Bear
brings up the point Pete just mentioned
things like this could easily just be a convoluted way of getting money from an agent
"You know, we had a lot of fun tonight. But there's nothing funny about vapor lock! It's the third most common cause of cars stalling. So please, take care of your car and get it checked!" -Joe Namath
Is it possible that . . .
. . . Dareus’ light sentence is due to providing a lot of information to the NCAA?
Dareus did turn himself in...
And UA sent it to the NCAA post-haste.
I don’t think AJ Green turned himself in, nore did UGA report it. (could be wrong).
People are forgetting that 4 games is the STANDARD suspension for this (per the NCAA).
Fumbles. It was always Fumbles
For what it's worth...
FWIW, all of the UNC sites I read tend to agree that Dareus got off light because he spilled the beans on the entire operation.
Maybe that’s not true, but it certainly would make sense.
"Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." -- Milton Friedman
by outsidethesidelines on Sep 8, 2010 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah . . .
. . . that would also explain why Saban thought Dareus had a good chance of not being suspended at all.
But even of Dareus did
spill the bean if he got nothing then AJ got 4 games it would not sit well at all.
As much as I hate Auburn I hate Tenn. that much more.
Since when has the NCAA . . .
. . . cared about what sits well?
When I read about the jersey I said "THAT's IT?"
Is is partly we self reported and AJ/GA did not?
Bama's Pluck and Grit have Writ Her Name in Crimson Flame
To me the difference is much more obvious:
Dareus may have made a stupid mistake, but he had no intent to break the rules.
Green was breaking the rules on purpose.
I'm wrong all the time.
Yes, I think you are right, that intent was a big difference.
Bama's Pluck and Grit have Writ Her Name in Crimson Flame
by TideFanAtlanta on Sep 8, 2010 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I am beginning to think...
Thats its clear that Marcel got a lighter penalty for a few reasons. 1. The suspension itself noted how honest he was. 2. We self reported this incident. 3. Marcel is the guy that spilled the beans on UNC and as a result they in a world of big trouble. Basically, Marcel is going to be the star witness against everything that went on with the UNC players, and this to a degree lead to a lighter penalty.
3. Marcel is the guy that spilled the beans on UNC and as a result they in a world of big trouble.
Not sure what you mean by “spilled the beans”. Marcel was not the one that brought UNC to the NCAA’s attention. In fact, he didn’t say anything about his own trips until after the NCAA was already investigating UNC, at which point he decided he’d better speak up.
But if you just mean that he gave info, yes that’s probably true.
If I'm wearing a turban, it means Auburn is playing Iraq.
yes it went like that
and then is when they started investigation of Green.
Bama's Pluck and Grit have Writ Her Name in Crimson Flame
by TideFanAtlanta on Sep 8, 2010 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions
AFTER THE ALFY HILL SITUATION
I wouldn’t be surprised if the NCAA came back later and changed their mind about Dareus and declare him ineligible the entire season and therefore forfeit our 2010 season. I would like to think that would be impossible, but I also use to think that once a kid was cleared by the NCAA Clearing House he was good to go, but…..
This why we are not appealing and also maybe why we sort of let go of the Alfy Hill thing...
which I am still fighting mad over.
Bama's Pluck and Grit have Writ Her Name in Crimson Flame
by TideFanAtlanta on Sep 8, 2010 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Did you get your pitchfork ready yet
for our road trip up to Indianapolis?
I’m OK with the Dareus thing, I guess. But the Alfy Hill situation was pure BS.
If I'm wearing a turban, it means Auburn is playing Iraq.
Seems like TMZ or one of those hollywood sites broke the Green story originally . .
I reckon I will never doubt them again.
by Son of Roaring Dan on Sep 8, 2010 4:53 PM CDT reply actions
And THIS is why we're not appealing the two games for Marcell
He already got a 50% reduction. Don’t tempt the fates
"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero
by Stuck in the Plains on Sep 8, 2010 4:58 PM CDT reply actions
That and you need to pick your battles.
Bama's Pluck and Grit have Writ Her Name in Crimson Flame
by TideFanAtlanta on Sep 8, 2010 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Gentry Estes gives a good summary
I covered the Dareus investigation and have a pretty good take on that situation. While I will not defend the NCAA’s actions as it pertains to A.J. Green, but here’s a little background on the Dareus saga at Alabama that I’ve not noticed on many Georgia forums today.
Going off NCAA “starting point” guidelines, both Dareus and Green should have received four games for the dollar amount of each violation.
But the NCAA cited “mitigating circumstances” in the case of Dareus getting a two-game suspension instead of a four-game suspension, which the NCAA admitted was called for in his situation.
What does that mean?
* Well, for one, Dareus’ mother died in May, which is when the trips to Miami allegedly took place. The person responsible for talking him into going down there was a friend and fellow player — Marvin Austin, the UNC player that is in so much trouble — who said (through Twitter) that he wanted to cheer Dareus up. That doesn’t excuse breaking the rules, but it does help explain the situation better.
* A good source at UA has told me that the school started it’s own compliance investigation into Dareus on a Sunday after receiving calls from media asking about it (Yours truly included). My understanding is that UGA, meanwhile, was notified by the NCAA first. That’s a big difference. It always helps in the NCAA’s eyes to look as though you’re keeping your own kitchen clean. In UGA’s defense, it’s not like the athletics department has been on real stable footing these past few weeks and months.
* Without question, Dareus should have checked with Alabama’s compliance staff before heading to Miami, but he did not. That said, UA compliance officials remained convinced that Dareus was telling the truth when he said he didn’t know he was breaking the rules because he did not know an agent was somehow involved.
* Along those lines, here is the statement issued by Alabama’s compliance director Mike Ward in the wake of the Dareus decision …
“We are appreciative of the NCAA’s efforts in this matter. It is important to note that Marcell never intentionally violated any NCAA rules and did not knowingly receive any benefits from an agent. Marcell lived up to the letter and spirit of the NCAA cooperative principle and the NCAA described him as ‘one of the most truthful student-athletes we have ever interviewed.’ While the institution weighs the decision to appeal, we will continue to pursue all available means to protect our student-athletes and their families from agents and financial advisors willing to compromise or exploit them. We will assist the NCAA, NFL, NFLPA, and any interested state and federal regulatory bodies in their prosecution, regulation, or sanctioning of individuals who disregard legislation pertaining to our student-athletes.”
* Alabama did not appeal, by the way, after Nick Saban first said that it would. Per NCAA rules, the player would be ineligible for the length of the appeal, so it would make no sense in Dareus’ case. Georgia, meanwhile, has nothing to lose in appealing the Green decision.
Fumbles. It was always Fumbles
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