Kickers & what to look for. Will Cade Foster have a positive impact?
by Bamapride on Dec 20, 2011 8:23 AM CST
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PrintWith our recent troubles on special teams and some of the dialogue going back and forth on RBR, I wanted to take this opportunity to look a little closer at the kicking game (specifically PK) and what we need to hope for going into the BCS game.
Going back to the early 80s, Bama had a few kickers bring us some good fortune at PK. Four names which come to mind include Peter Kim, Van Tiffin, Phillip Doyle and Leigh Tiffin. When looking at two year comparisons (the last two years for each player) their stats are as follows (source: www.sports-reference.com):
Peter Kim - yrs: '81 | '82 % made: 75% | 67% pts: 70 | 67
Van Tiffin - yrs: '85 | '86 % made: 67% | 77% pts: 90 | 78
Phillip Doyle - yrs: '89 | '90 % made: 88% | 83% pts: 100 | 97
Leigh Tiffin - yrs: '08 | '09 % made: 69% | 86% pts: 106 | 132
If we compare the above to the first two years of Cade Foster's career, here's where we are to date:
Cade Foster - yrs: '10 | '11 % made: 78% | 22% pts: 28 | 6
For both '10 and '11 Cade had the same number of attempts (9) with dramatically different results.
If we look beyond the stats, IMO there are four primary factors which come into play for kickers: environmental (wind, etc.), strength, technique and psychological.
The psychological and technical aspects of Cade's game seem to be getting the best of him. If all things remain constant, how else can you explain the drop off in attempts made? He's a "long distance" kicker so the distance for his attempts has been fairly constant. Also his strength appears to be the same when comparing '10 to '11 as the guy is huge (which could be part of the problem).
Looking at the technical aspect, his kicking technique needs A LOT of work. For those of you who DVR all of Bama's games go back and look at Cade's follow thru after impact. He punches the ball and doesn't follow through like most soccer style kickers. This may have worked when you have a tee, but you need a follow through to get the carry for long distance kicks. Also, check his misses - most have been to the right (again lack of follow through from not turning the hips enough through impact).
His bulk could be his next biggest hinderance as you need flexibility for the follow through. If this guy squats 600 pounds but can't extend his foot above his shoulders on the follow through - he's toast.
Finally there's psycholigical - the poor guy's confidence is gone. Bama players can say what they want, but his conidence is shot.
What this guy needs is yoga or more stretching to increase flexibility, a technical trainer and a mental conditioning coach. Without that, our best chance to win the game is to pull a Georgia Southern and just go for it on 4th down in long distance situations.
So Cade, if you are reading this: lay off the weights a bit, stretch more and go find an asst. soccer coach who knows the technical aspects of serving accurate long balls.
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Maybe the REC needs to hook Cade up with a date before each game.
Loosen up them hips, see…
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
I guess that would depend on the type of date they choose?
I mean that’s relative right?
Talent can only get you so far. Give me a player who has less talent, but the heart of a champion and the will to succeed.
I do not expect to see Foster kicking any field goals in this game.
And I will freak out by an appropriate amount if I see him out there setting up for one.
2nd quarter of the Iron Bowl: 4th and 2 from the AU 25, Saban went for it instead of sending Foster out to try a 42 yd FG. Four plays later on 4th and 3 at the AU 13, he sent Shelley out there to kick a 30 yarder. I expect to see similar decisions in the NCG.
God bless our Dark Lord.
As far as I can tell, the last FG that Foster attempted was the 49 yarder that he missed
in the first quarter of the Mississippi State game. Nearly 3 full games without an attempt from him, and Saban passed on having him attempt a 42 yarder in the IB. Again, I’m of the opinion that Foster no longer has a PK job on our team.
God bless our Dark Lord.
If he misses another kick in a crucial game...
…people will come unglued. I can’t imagine the pressure he’s under both internally and externally.
I feel bad for the kid.
But not as bad as I would feel watching him line up for another kick.
God bless our Dark Lord.
We got a millyun dolla team with a dime store kicker, PAWWWWWL.
They ain’t nobody on the socca team or nuthin, PAWWWWL? Maybe one o them farriners can do betta. You know they’d move over here ’cause they wanna play for Saban, PAWWWWL, and most of ’em prolly wants one o them visa cards anyhow.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Flagged
.. For some proper punctuation.
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success." -Coach Bear Bryant
"I thInk everybody should take the attItude that we’re workIng to be a champIon, that we want to be a champIon In everythIng that we do. every choIce, every decIsIon, everythIng that we do every day, we want to be a champIon."
-- Nick SabaN
by Tokeisch on Dec 21, 2011 10:34 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Kickoff Specialist
is technically a PK job….just not a FG job. I know, I know, nit-picking.
That white stuff on the top of chickencrap...... is chickencrap.
Good point.
I watched most of the LSU game again the other night and the missed opportunities were unreal. Also, looking at Trent’s runs specifically, HE WAS A BEAST.
The only times they effectively stopped our runs were speed, outside runs (which LSU practiced defending against this the most to prep for the Oregon game).
I fully expect 0 attempts outside the 40, more direct runs using Trent and more passes to Smelly-cat.
Talent can only get you so far. Give me a player who has less talent, but the heart of a champion and the will to succeed.
Cade Foster will throw a special teams TD.
Inductee into the Imperial Order of the Grizzle-My-Nizzle
Yeah... I think you meant Howie Mandell. What kind of fan ARE you?
Inductee into the Imperial Order of the Grizzle-My-Nizzle
by TiderUpNorth on Dec 20, 2011 1:14 PM CST up reply actions
P.J. Fitzgerald...
…almost threw one for Texas….
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Dec 20, 2011 8:29 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, that one didn't end well.
Inductee into the Imperial Order of the Grizzle-My-Nizzle
by TiderUpNorth on Dec 21, 2011 12:49 AM CST up reply actions
I hope CNS has no trick plays for NOLA.
"The same things win today that have always won, and they will win years from now. The only difference is the losers have a whole new bunch of excuses why they don’t win or can’t win."-Bear Bryant
Robot Chicken Star Wars should be canon.
by the thin red line on Dec 22, 2011 9:14 PM CST up reply actions
I'd be willing to bet that he will.
And you’ll be happy with them if they succeed.
God bless our Dark Lord.
The first two series against Texas
were meltdown time for me.
Btw, the article on Cody at al.com shows him to be solid. Give him another couple years. That said, Brad Wing is at LSU for three more years.
"The same things win today that have always won, and they will win years from now. The only difference is the losers have a whole new bunch of excuses why they don’t win or can’t win."-Bear Bryant
Robot Chicken Star Wars should be canon.
by the thin red line on Dec 27, 2011 3:37 PM CST up reply actions
Saban usually has a couple of tricks up his sleeve for the big games.
So don’t forget your heart medication that morning.
God bless our Dark Lord.
I'm willing to admit that a table was up-ended on the fake kick at the Rose Bowl in 2010.
…’least I admit it.
Can ANY rational adult here explain Mack’s shovel pass (to Dareus) with less than a minute in the first half of that beautiful game? All I can say is… “Thanks, Mack. You’re the greatest!”
9th January, 2012: Section 101, Row 1, Seat... I'll let y'all spot that one.
"And a crashin' blow from a huge right hand
Sent a Louisiana fellow to the Promised Land"
-- "Big John" by Jimmy Dean
by TiderUpNorth on Dec 30, 2011 1:55 AM CST up reply actions
Both coaches made questionable calls.
"The same things win today that have always won, and they will win years from now. The only difference is the losers have a whole new bunch of excuses why they don’t win or can’t win."-Bear Bryant
Robot Chicken Star Wars should be canon.
by the thin red line on Dec 30, 2011 7:54 AM CST up reply actions
I have been making the same
Observation all year. For all the great things that the Strength and conditioning have done for the team, Mr. Cochran (I have to call him that, cause i’m afarid he would kick my ass), has ruined Cade Foster. I lived in Keller texas when Cade was kicking at near by Carroll High. I saw a few of his games and he was definately the best kicker in texas, and probably elsewhere. He has always been an athlete also, but since he came to Tuscaloosa he has turned into an animal., from a weight room perspective. Looking at kickers from the past, especially sidewinders, they usually have slight frames. The big boys used to kick in my day, but they were staright on kickers, used a flat toed boot and even used to be able to use a tee. His current body shape is not condusive to the soccer style kicking. It’s too bad, cause he is a great kid. Wish him the best in life and maybe we should quit stoning him. Everyone makes mistakes. The coaching staff will make the best calls for the team.
Agree...of course
Better to build the specific groups you need for kicking distance and work on greater flexibility. Not rocket science.
Now getting Cade’s head unscrambled – will take some work.
Talent can only get you so far. Give me a player who has less talent, but the heart of a champion and the will to succeed.
I have a hard time believing
Cochran doesn’t know how to tailor conditioning per position and per individual. Also, I thought it was a myth that weight training tightens you up or slows you down. And isn’t there more to the conditioning program than weight training?
"The same things win today that have always won, and they will win years from now. The only difference is the losers have a whole new bunch of excuses why they don’t win or can’t win."-Bear Bryant
Robot Chicken Star Wars should be canon.
by the thin red line on Dec 20, 2011 5:04 PM CST up reply actions
definitely not a myth
i’ve seen guys come in the army skinny rails, able to run like antelopes. then they get beefed up after a couple of years and struggle to run anything close to their previous marks. and it is a no-brainer to see how flexibility is hindered with muxcle mass.
That white stuff on the top of chickencrap...... is chickencrap.
I have to believe this is a skill position...
That the BAMA coaches struggle with due to their lack of knowledge about kicking. If I had to guess they look at stats – attempts vs. made and distance and go with that. Cade had good stats in high school and was kicking long balls, but he was not a true kicking specialist as he also played linebacker.
Honestly I think that was a huge factor to him getting selected. Saban may have been tired of watching Tiffin’s fear of contact on the run backs and went with someone who liked to hit.
Talent can only get you so far. Give me a player who has less talent, but the heart of a champion and the will to succeed.
we definitely wanted a big boy kicking
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
I doubt there is a position Saban doesn't understand.
"The same things win today that have always won, and they will win years from now. The only difference is the losers have a whole new bunch of excuses why they don’t win or can’t win."-Bear Bryant
Robot Chicken Star Wars should be canon.
by the thin red line on Dec 21, 2011 7:16 PM CST up reply actions
In the good ole days...
…this woulda earned a proper TWSS….
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Dec 21, 2011 11:20 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
The big boys used to kick in my day, but they were staright on kickers, used a flat toed boot and even used to be able to use a tee. His current body shape is not condusive to the soccer style kicking.
i don’t know, look at Sebastian Janikowski; he’s got 30 pounds on Foster. It’s mainly a form problem and has nothing to do with his size.
Hey,
What’s wring with that?
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success." -Coach Bear Bryant
"I thInk everybody should take the attItude that we’re workIng to be a champIon, that we want to be a champIon In everythIng that we do. every choIce, every decIsIon, everythIng that we do every day, we want to be a champIon."
-- Nick SabaN
by Tokeisch on Dec 21, 2011 10:38 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Hey,
What’s wrong with that?
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success." -Coach Bear Bryant
"I thInk everybody should take the attItude that we’re workIng to be a champIon, that we want to be a champIon In everythIng that we do. every choIce, every decIsIon, everythIng that we do every day, we want to be a champIon."
-- Nick SabaN
by Tokeisch on Dec 21, 2011 10:38 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Hey,
What’s wrong with that?
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success." -Coach Bear Bryant
"I thInk everybody should take the attItude that we’re workIng to be a champIon, that we want to be a champIon In everythIng that we do. every choIce, every decIsIon, everythIng that we do every day, we want to be a champIon."
-- Nick SabaN
by Tokeisch on Dec 21, 2011 10:38 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Hey,
What’s wrong with that?
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success." -Coach Bear Bryant
"I thInk everybody should take the attItude that we’re workIng to be a champIon, that we want to be a champIon In everythIng that we do. every choIce, every decIsIon, everythIng that we do every day, we want to be a champIon."
-- Nick SabaN
by Tokeisch on Dec 21, 2011 10:38 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Hey,
What’s wrong with that?
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success." -Coach Bear Bryant
"I thInk everybody should take the attItude that we’re workIng to be a champIon, that we want to be a champIon In everythIng that we do. every choIce, every decIsIon, everythIng that we do every day, we want to be a champIon."
-- Nick SabaN
by Tokeisch on Dec 21, 2011 10:38 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Some call it a multi-tool or even a tool shed or…
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success." -Coach Bear Bryant
"I thInk everybody should take the attItude that we’re workIng to be a champIon, that we want to be a champIon In everythIng that we do. every choIce, every decIsIon, everythIng that we do every day, we want to be a champIon."
-- Nick SabaN
by Tokeisch on Dec 21, 2011 10:40 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Posting problems?
Talent can only get you so far. Give me a player who has less talent, but the heart of a champion and the will to succeed.
WTF? LoL
I guess so…Damn Mobile.
/shakesheadwalksaway
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success." -Coach Bear Bryant
"I thInk everybody should take the attItude that we’re workIng to be a champIon, that we want to be a champIon In everythIng that we do. every choIce, every decIsIon, everythIng that we do every day, we want to be a champIon."
-- Nick SabaN
Usually guys with beer guts like that
lack the flexibility to kick a ball 64 yards for a field goal… If there’s another guy out there with the same build that can kick like that…the REC needs to step up and bring ’em in…
Don't forget Michael Proctor
His stats were pretty gaudy as well. It’s really only recently we’ve struggled with the kicking game so much.
However,
during his senior year he missed five in a row.
"The same things win today that have always won, and they will win years from now. The only difference is the losers have a whole new bunch of excuses why they don’t win or can’t win."-Bear Bryant
Robot Chicken Star Wars should be canon.
by the thin red line on Dec 20, 2011 5:00 PM CST up reply actions
He was trying to quit smoking that week....
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Dec 20, 2011 8:29 PM CST up reply actions
I thought his chain smoking was a
myth.
"The same things win today that have always won, and they will win years from now. The only difference is the losers have a whole new bunch of excuses why they don’t win or can’t win."-Bear Bryant
Robot Chicken Star Wars should be canon.
by the thin red line on Dec 20, 2011 8:33 PM CST up reply actions
NTTAWWT
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Dec 20, 2011 8:39 PM CST up reply actions
But the REC is a myth, right?
"The same things win today that have always won, and they will win years from now. The only difference is the losers have a whole new bunch of excuses why they don’t win or can’t win."-Bear Bryant
Robot Chicken Star Wars should be canon.
by the thin red line on Dec 20, 2011 8:41 PM CST up reply actions
chain smoking, yes
smoking other stuff, not remotely a myth. I know his former pusher
by BamaThrasher on Dec 20, 2011 11:23 PM CST up reply actions
LIAR! Boy was cleaner'n the US Senate! No! Wait! I meant cleaner'n the Board of Health!
Inductee into the Imperial Order of the Grizzle-My-Nizzle
by TiderUpNorth on Dec 21, 2011 12:53 AM CST up reply actions
I think Cade has a future at Bama
as a spiecal teams cover guy (not kicker) and a back up linebacker. I do not look for him to try a FG in the NCG unless it is the last play of the half and we are 40 yards from the end zone.
However, he does have a month to work on it so maybe he will surprise.
Nah…he is done.
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
If he can contribute, then cool.
"The same things win today that have always won, and they will win years from now. The only difference is the losers have a whole new bunch of excuses why they don’t win or can’t win."-Bear Bryant
Robot Chicken Star Wars should be canon.
by the thin red line on Dec 20, 2011 5:05 PM CST up reply actions
I'm telling you the guy
can cover kicks. He can’t kick, but he can tackle.
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
I like what someone mentioned a while back.
Using Foster as some sort of stealth kicker. Keep him out there on kickoffs and use him to onside every now and then.
And he’s also pretty stout. Anybody who can hit and tackle can be useful somehow or other.
Proud of myself for special teams trickeration.
You may be wondering how I love Alabama AND I love the Jets... I'll just tell you that the answer is complicated and will take too long to explain.
I'd love to see Bama on-sides kick EVERY TIME.
It’s not so crazy either. Why?
1- Honey Beaver is a real threat to return for a TD.
2- Cade CAN’T kick it out of the end zone.
3- Our defense gets really stiff from the 50 to our own goal line and we’ve proven that we can hold teams out of the end zone on defense. Not so much on kickoffs.
4- General mindfuck purposes if we get even a third of the on-sides kicks.
"All I wanna do is drive around in my truck and drink Jack Daniels... and they just don't understand."- Kenny Stabler
You wouldn't get close to a third of them.
Says here that the success rate for expected onside kicks is around 18% in CFB (I am shocked it’s even that high.) Basically, if you kick off five times in a game you’ll probably get one of them while giving your opponent great field position the other four times. No thanks.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
But the threat of an LSU return for TD is gone.
"All I wanna do is drive around in my truck and drink Jack Daniels... and they just don't understand."- Kenny Stabler
Actually onside kicks get returned more often than you think.
If you kick it right at a guy he can scoop it and go.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Thought the recovered onsides kick could NOT be advanced.
Remember aubie vs Utah State? aubie player catches the onsides kick in the air in stride and returns it 30+ yds only to have the ball placed back when he initiated possession.
Proud mini-Saban.
by Tidee Whitee on Dec 29, 2011 8:48 AM CST up reply actions
Plus
one TD return and four times giving them possession inside their 30 beats the hell out of one additional possession for us on our own 45 and giving it to them four times on our 45.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Dumb strategy.
However, trying the high kick with fair catch to the 30 is not a bad idea. I also like the line drive/squib kick which is hard to return but usually ends up around the other teams 35. A straight OB kick gets it to the 40. Would not go that way unless we had a big lead.
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
I think we should
just let Mandell drop kick a few FG’s…
I still think Shelley can kick right at 45 yards.
But really no much further than that.
It's not what you've done but what you are doing that matters.
Make its ass quit -TWEsq, concerning my fight against Multiple Sclerosis
BTW, Bamapride...
…I meant to mention this earlier, but it’s not exactly fair to compare the stats of a guy’s first two years with the last two years of some of our greatest kickers, IMO.
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Dec 27, 2011 3:00 PM CST reply actions
And, I'd say it is somewhat fair
because Cade has degressed. I can not see him even playing next year except on kick off coverage.
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
Kade is our guy. His team mates are behind him. We should be too.
Kade will kick a 42 yd fg in the 4th qtr to put us up by 10 points.
We intercept a JJ pass late in the game and return it for a td. Bama by 17.
Proud mini-Saban.
I'll believe it when I see it.
On second thought, even then I might not believe it.
God bless our Dark Lord.
Who is this Kade chap?
Did Schwarzenegger play him in “Total Recall?” If that’s the case, we should be in damn good hands!
9th January, 2012: Section 101, Row 1, Seat... I'll let y'all spot that one.
"And a crashin' blow from a huge right hand
Sent a Louisiana fellow to the Promised Land"
-- "Big John" by Jimmy Dean
by TiderUpNorth on Dec 30, 2011 1:58 AM CST up reply actions
How can you tell what he's wearing?
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Jan 1, 2012 3:09 PM CST up reply actions
He was just
fantasizing asking.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
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