Why we need a +1.
Before going into an argument supporting the rationale of implementing a +1, is there any logical debate that the current system if flawed?
Currently with the BCS, every game (let's change that to most games) during the season matter. You make one mistake and drop a game, you're rolling the dice. There's very little chance of getting a full-on playoff model due to the power-brokers resistance to this format. IT'S ABOUT THE MONEY PEOPLE.
With the current system, there's partial dependence/weight given to computers where most of the formulas/criteria are kept secret. Just looking at some of these results we see crazy stuff like the Sagarin ratings having Texas A&M ranked at 13 (who finished 6-6) ahead of USCe (who finished 10-2). Sorry T&M, you are no where NEAR a 13th ranked team.
Now don't get me wrong, the BCS creates a LOT of drama both during the season and at then end when they make the announcement, but PLEASE give me a +1.
Use the BCS to Seed the top 4 teams, but revise the computer logic and share the formulas for all involved. OR, drop them entirely and let the AP back in. Yes they are biased, but so is everyone else with a pulse. At least THEY watch the games!
If we had a +1 this year, at least one other conference gets a shot. There's another reason we as Bama fans would like this, we have a BETTER chance of getting to the title game. Even with one loss, we're more likely to get one of the top 4 seeds and play our way into the finals, vs. the drama we had this year.
Regardless, please spare me the hyperbole of the "you must win your conference argument." If you're one the top 4 seeds you're in - done - end of story. if you're not - sorry - here's a nice bowl game for you and your fans.
I'll get off the soapbox now. Thanks and have a great day!
FanPosts are just that; posts created by the fans. They are in no way indicative of the opinions of SBN and the authors of Roll Bama Roll.
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I agree, but...
Use the BCS to Seed the top 4 teams, but revise the computer logic and share the formulas for all involved. OR, drop them entirely and let the AP back in.
First, it’s not a matter of “letting the AP back in”. The AP requested to be removed from the BCS, not the other way around. The AP decided that as a journalistic organization, it should not be involved in deciding who plays for the national championship.
Second, I definitely don’t think the computers should be dropped. They give the process some objectivity which the voters sorely lack at times. The computers actually look at all the games while the voters don’t. But I would think that the BCS would require that the programmers at least share the formulas with them or else get replaced. (And I also think that margin-of-victory should be allowed as a factor.)
God bless our Dark Lord.
I don't buy it.
The AP decided that as a journalistic organization, it should not be involved in deciding who plays for the national championship.
Judging from the way that they’ve broken off a few times, I’d say that their motive was to retain the power to pretend crown a champion at their whim.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." - George Carlin
by Slice of Life on Dec 5, 2011 8:52 AM CST up reply actions
Allow MOV with a cap of 20 points.
Fixes everything. Yeah, you might have a coach run a two minute drill up 17 points late in the game, but so what?
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Might even force some coaches into pulling off the gas
and playing backups if they’re up by 30+ in the fourth. No point in taking the risk then.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
With the right formula
I’m cool with dropping them too.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
All computer votes?
Crazy talk.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." - George Carlin
by Slice of Life on Dec 5, 2011 10:16 AM CST up reply actions
Just has to be the right formula.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
I don't know.
The idea of using the “right” formula smacks of result bias. You end up in a cycle of endlessly tweaking the thing to try to make the results you want.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." - George Carlin
by Slice of Life on Dec 5, 2011 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
So humans potentially manipulating the system
is a reason to give human voters 67% control of the system?
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Clever point,
but it doesn’t make the cpu option sound any less biased.
I don’t mind human voters. Here’s why: there really hasn’t been that many instances where the voters were wrong. The computers on the other hand, have Oklahoma in the top 6 in 50% of the rankings. That’s a 3 loss team that fell to Baylor and Texas Tech.
I prefer to cast my lot with sentient beings. If that ever comes to describe computers, then we’ll already be dead anyway so it will be a moot point.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." - George Carlin
by Slice of Life on Dec 5, 2011 10:58 AM CST up reply actions
With a properly applied MOV component
Bama would have been a clear #2 this year. Besides the Iowa State loss, close wins against Texas and TAMU would have hurt Okie State tremendously since Bama would have “maxed out” a 20 point cap in every game except Missy State and Penn State (and probably those if it had mattered.) Also, with all the advanced stats that are available now, you could certainly create something that would work. Maybe the footballoutsiders F+ rating could be a piece of the formula, for example.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
OSU beat UT 38-26.
And Kansas State and ATM were their only wins closer than that.
God bless our Dark Lord.
Right
but our two closest wins were 17 each. Meaning, basically, that we would have missed a full-season “max out” on ten wins by six points while they missed it by 40 points. Four points per win is pretty significant when you’re capping at 20.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Yeah,
but how much could that possibly offet their SOS if it was enough to push Ok as high as it did?
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." - George Carlin
by Slice of Life on Dec 5, 2011 12:23 PM CST up reply actions
Depends on how you apply both numbers.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
I agree with a cap on the MOV
but I would also add a stronger SOS component. This removes the worry around the Boise and Houston teams that play a silly-ass schedule.
Attempting to remove humor from posts since August 30, 2011
The computers already hate them.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Yep. Boise finished up #12 in Sagarin's ELO_CHESS ranking. (#8 in his Predictor.)
They are the lowest ranked 1 loss team except Houston at #26.
God bless our Dark Lord.
I guess they could be propped up by MOV though.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
What do you mean?
In the Predictor? They played the 69th best SOS according to Sagarin, which is only 11 spots worse than Wisconsin. Seems about right to me. Houston is ranked way the **** down there because their SOS is #107.
God bless our Dark Lord.
No, I'm saying
that under today’s rules they are rightfully punished for their weak schedule but not rewarded for their MOV, which I agree with since blowing out awful teams doesn’t mean anything. Adding MOV to the formula could offset a weak schedule if not applied correctly.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
As long as it's capped, I don't see anything wrong with that.
If you’re gonna play a weak SOS, you dang well better blow them all out. MOV would offset some of the weakness in your SOS, but not all. Heck, we’ve taken a hit for our SOS this year, but the fact is that we blew out everyone on the schedule except for one team.
God bless our Dark Lord.
Right
just supporting Joker’s thoughts about SOS still being a dominant factor.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
IIRC...
The computers (or at least some of them) are currently allowed a SOS component, but the formula is required to water it down so that it isn’t as strong as it should be. So you will see a small hit to the Boise States and Houstons, just not enough of a hit for my taste.
The early versions of the BCS (forget what it was called) had a strong SOS component, but it was dropped due to the constant complaining of the you-know-who teams.
Attempting to remove humor from posts since August 30, 2011
No, you don't recall correctly.
The computers rely completely on SOS. That’s what the computers do, they compare wins and losses and look at how your opponents fared against other teams. That’s SOS and it’s baked in there.
You are correct that the BCS originally had a separate category of SOS that was added directly into the BCS formula, and that was removed. But the computers still use it.
God bless our Dark Lord.
The problem with the SOS component is not its strength so much
A bigger problem is the large weight that is given to differences in how your patsies line up. That’s exactly why the computer love the Big 12 and hate the SEC—they lined up stronger patsies (e.g., UL Lafayette & Tulsa vs N. Texas and Furman).
The difference between playing the #110 team and the #80 team is treated as the same as the difference between playing the #10 team and #40 team. And really, it shouldn’t be.
To get a little esoteric—and I don’t know if there’s really a way to program them—the games that should be weighed heaviest are the games that are in the ballpark of your own program’s strength.
Here’s what I mean. Take North Texas, and assume they are #100. The games they play against #80-#120 should be weighed heavily, because that’s really where they sink or swim. Their results against #1-40 shouldn’t be weighed heavily, because they’re nearly just as much presumed to lose against #40 as they are against #1.
The contenders should be judged most heavily on how they do against #1-40. Yes, UL Lafayette is a tougher out than Kent St., but not really that much tougher. As a top team, you are expected to wax that ass whether it’s #80 or #120.
The difference between playing the #110 team and the #80 team is treated as the same as the difference between playing the #10 team and #40 team.
It’s impossible for you to know whether this statement is true or not since the formulas are not public.
God bless our Dark Lord.
Just how many of them are secret?
I’ve been trying to research this to no avail.
Talent can only get you so far. Give me a player who has less talent, but the heart of a champion and the will to succeed.
Only the REC has the keys to the formula.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
I don't know the forumulas, but . . .
I do know that’s exactly why the Big 12 is ranked ahead of the SEC this year. The SEC has more marquee out-of-conference wins than the B12, and it’s not close.
Out-of-conference losses by BCS top 25 (the SEC has 4, no other conference has more than 1):
LSU 13-0 – none
2 Alabama 11-1 – none
3 Oklahoma State 11-1 – none
4 Stanford 11-1 – none
5 Oregon 11-2 – SEC
6 Arkansas 10-2 = none
7 Boise State 11-1 – none
8 Kansas State 10-2 – none
9 South Carolina 10-2 – none
10 Wisconsin 11-2 – none
11 Virginia Tech 11-2 – none
12 Baylor 9-3 – none
13 Michigan 10-2 – none
14 Oklahoma 9-3 – none
15 Clemson 10-3 – SEC
16 Georgia 10-3 – Mountain West
17 Michigan State 10-3 – independent
18 TCU 10-2 – Big 12
19 Houston 12-1 – none
20 Nebraska 9-3 – none
21 Southern Miss 11-2 – none
22 Penn State 9-3 – SEC
23 West Virginia 9-3 – SEC
24 Texas 7-5 –
25 Auburn – ACC
Oh, and by the way, I think it’s time for a little pushback against that “the SEC is down this year” crap. They say that EVERY year, it’s usually BS, and this year is no exception.
I agree
and I am so sick of hearing all the arguments about which one should play on Jan 9th
Alabama or Oklahoma State. Now that the BCSNC has been set I am turning off ESPN for awhile because they will rehash this for a month now. It makes me wonder if the game being played in New Orleans had anything to do with who is playing in it…..after all there’s a lot of money to be made with both teams being so close by. I, as an Alabama fan, would have love to have seen them play OSU in a playoff game just to show them that it takes more than having a great offense to win a championship.
I have a few concerns with the +1 system
First, the “slippery slope” argument. Are the #5 teams going to be so powerful and make so much noise that this could lead to an 8-team playoff? The B1G, ACC, and Big East would have been left out this year, half of the BCS conferences.
Secondly, I think ticket sales might take a bit of a hit. What if, for example, Oregon and USC win the first two games and are set to meet 1 week later in the Orange Bowl for the national title? Would the Orange Bowl be able to sell those tickets? And would anyone really care outside of the west coast?
Third, I think having a month in anticipation of playing for it all really adds to the mystique surrounding it. It allows coaches to really game-plan and players to focus on one opponent (instead of worrying about the next one, then trying to think about two more in the other game).
Finally, I think it would only be fair to allow the winners to have 2 weeks to prepare for each other (and maybe more importantly, heal up). Winning the first game, then turning right around and having only 1 week to prepare (and heal up), not to mention the fan bases yet again having to turn in vacation time with only 1 week notice, would possibly be a bit too stressful.
That said, I think something needs to be done. Happy as I am, I do feel that OSU and Stanford (mostly because I like our guest “Cardinal????” that lurks around here) deserves at least a shot somehow, someway.
The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his. ~General George S. Patton~
There are logistical problems, but I still think it's the best way to go.
From a fan perspective, the best would be playing the semi-finals on the campus of the higher ranked team. And that would give more importance to the seeding (and thus more importance to the regular season). And it could be done the Saturday before Christmas to allow 2 weeks to make travel plans, etc. But of course the bowls won’t allow all of that.
God bless our Dark Lord.
Agree with this.
I think economics comes into play with a true playoff getting to eight teams and higher. The tickets alone are so high it’s doubtful many fans could support a mult-game deal unless home field was in the mix.
Talent can only get you so far. Give me a player who has less talent, but the heart of a champion and the will to succeed.
Another note...
I like the Pac 12’s version of home field advantage for their conference championship. I like the Georgia dome, but if we had a chaace oo host at BDS, that would be awesome.
Talent can only get you so far. Give me a player who has less talent, but the heart of a champion and the will to succeed.
This year sets up uniquely well for a #1
There just so happen to be 1 undefeated major team and 3 1-loss major teams, so everybody goes home happy after a +1.
That’s unusual. Usually there are 2 in the box, or 3, or 5, or 7, or whatever. Just because 2011 is a 4-in-the-box year doesn’t make a +1 always perfect.
Generally, I’d say it’s more important to make sure that deserving teams don’t get left out than to make sure that undeserving teams don’t get in. A dark horse or Cinderella entry can spice things up, just like it does in the dance.
I think 6 is the minimum number of teams to allow you to be reasonably certain you get in all the deserving candidates. 8 would be better, and 12 still better than that. 16 would be nice, too, but I think 12 might be the ideal number.
Still, 8 is good enough to ensure that you are generally going to get in everybody who deserves to get in. Of course there will still be controversy at the borderline no matter how many gets in, just as there’s always controversy over who gets into the basketball tournament, but nobody is going to weep too many bitter tears over the plight of the #9 team that doesn’t have any kind of decent claim for a national championship.
Couple more points:
Don’t give me the “season’s too long/finals/etc.” crap. It can be worker out.
Second, screw conferences. Putting conferences in the mix brings in a boatload of problems, and some of them are serious, since they involve leaving deserving teams out. That’s what we’re trying not to do. Conferences are for determining local pecking order, not national championships.
Well, I like conferences
because there’s a big emphasis on how you performed for your regular season. I think wild card playoff spots are a good way of adjusting for the fact that some conferences are stronger than others. I wouldn’t mind taking 8 conference champions +2 wildcards. I know there are more than 8 FBS conferences, but does anyone really think the MAC champion deserves to be in the playoffs?
Proud member of the Fax Girl fan club.
by billycthulhu on Dec 5, 2011 12:11 PM CST up reply actions
Do you need wildcards if you seed via BCS rankings?
Also if you went with conference champions, it doesn’t alleviate the problem you had this year.
Talent can only get you so far. Give me a player who has less talent, but the heart of a champion and the will to succeed.
OK, here are the reasons conferences are bad
(1) It’s completely arbitrary and local as to how conferences are determined.
(2) Teams that aren’t in conferences are screwed and at a huge disadvantage.
(3) The only way to cure #2 is to enforce mandatory conference composition, and since the 120 schools are all independent entities, that will never happen.
(4) In fact, the conferences are currently on a wild merry-go-round, where they get off nobody knows, so depending on them to make logical, dependable determinations to set up your system is totally insane.
(5) Conferences are, of course, far, far from equal.
(6) Look at how screwed up the BCS bowls have been since they went to conference champs. Frickin’ Connecticut was in last year, the worst team that has ever played in a major bowl, and Louisville missed by a hair this year of topping that and being even worse than Connecticut.
(7) If you think from a southeastern perspective, then you should realize that southeastern teams are screwed, blued and tatooed by a system that auto-selects conference champs. There can only be one champ of the SEC, but the SEC is probably going to have 2 to 3 of the 8 best teams more years than not. What value is more important than getting the best teams in? Once you let in your Louisvilles, Connecticuts and Clemsons, every spot they get is a spot taken away from a deserving team. Again, getting the teams in that deserve to be in is the most important value, hands down.
(8) What’s to prevent, say, Texas from screwing the system over. Hello, Rice, Baylor, Texas Tech, North Texas, etc., join my new Texas Conference and I’ll give you a share of my TV cut and then we’ll let the conference champ go to the tourney!
The bottom line is that 120 independent units thing. There is just no way to fairly divide those teams up into groups that can determine champions that go on to a playoff. No. Way. It’s impossible.
Letting local groups set up their own systems to determine who gets one of the spots does nothing good, it just creates problems.
And 2 wildcards is nowhere near enough. Just taking this year for example, you’ve got Alabama, Arkansas, Stanford and Boise St. who are not conference champs, and those teams need to step aside for Clemson and West Virginia? That’s just wrong!
Oh, I forgot a good one
Who decides which conferences count? Remember, we’ve just had the Big East counting over the Mountain West which was CLEARLY a better conference over the last 3 years.
I’m sure I’m leaving out other problems, too. I just threw this quicklie list together.
Conference champs is nothing but trouble. Leave that to the locals and make a national system for national championships.
Wow
I think 6 is the minimum number of teams to allow you to be reasonably certain you get in all the deserving candidates. 8 would be better, and 12 still better than that. 16 would be nice, too, but I think 12 might be the ideal number.
I’m not sure where to begin here, so I’ll just say that there is no way in hell you are gonna convince me that Kansas State, Baylor, UGA, Clemson, etc have EARNED their way to a NC game. I just hate it that the pro-playoff folks want to diminish the regular season in any way. Blows my mind…
Attempting to remove humor from posts since August 30, 2011
If you don't know where to begin
A good start would be to respond to the argument I already made against what you’re saying. I said:
“Generally, I’d say it’s more important to make sure that deserving teams don’t get left out than to make sure that undeserving teams don’t get in. A dark horse or Cinderella entry can spice things up, just like it does in the dance.”
You might also mention why you went straight to the 12-team argument without acknowledging the 6-team or 8-team possibilities I put forward. In a 6-team, none of those teams gets in; in the 8-team, only K St.
One more thing: if you will note, I already explicitly said that those teams will not have “EARNED their way into a national championship game,” so I certainly don’t see why you would expect me to try to convince you that they would have.
In short, I don’t think you’re really responding to me, and I certainly don’t think I said anything to ask for being lumped in with whomever these mysterious folks are who want to diminish the regular season. For the record, I think the regular season would be a helluva lot more interesting if there were more than 2 spots on the line.
Well
I took your notion that “16 would be nice” to mean you want to cram as many teams as possible into a playoff. My apologies. However, I don’t think you’d have mentioned it if it isn’t what you (and others) want.
I still don’t think that Stanford, Boise, Arkansas, or Oregon deserve a shot either. I don’t think anyone that has watched CFB (and understands football) would argue this point.
I used to be a playoff proponent until I looked at what happens to sports that have them. It always has an effect on the regular season AND they always expand. Anything that makes CFB worse, I’m against. As I’ve stated, I could live with a +1, but it would expand and then become increasingly horrible. Look at NCAA basketball, Div1-AA football, NFL, NBA, etc, etc…
Look, I like CFB and think it’s the best sport out there. Changing what makes it exciting will eventually change it to where it is the same as the rest…boring.
Attempting to remove humor from posts since August 30, 2011
Changing what's exciting
I hear that one all the time, and I take issue with it pretty strongly.
College football is exciting because football is the best game there is, and college football is the best version of it. That’s exciting.
It’s exciting because sensational athletes like Trent Richardson make their debut in the limelight in the college game. By the time these guys get to the league, we know who they are and what they do, but they show up (to the public, at least) straight out of nowhere onto the college stage. That’s exciting.
Throw in the atmosphere, which is unparalleled in American sports (you might get something similar elsewhere with soccer). That’s exciting.
It’s not the stupid, f’d-up way that championships are determined by ignorant sportswriters, and excellent deserving teams are left to beat their heads against the wall. That’s not exciting, it’s infuriating.
I don’t know if you were around in 1966 or 1977, but if you weren’t let me just say that I was and I strongly disagree that the way national champs are determined is what makes college footbal exciting. Speaking of infuriating, you can still get me spitting mad talking about 1966.
Try convincing me that’s a good thing.
I think it's a little of both.
The fact is there is extra intensity because of the fact that they play so few games and any loss is a huge deal. I can’t think of any other sport where a single regular season game can derail your entire season.
God bless our Dark Lord.
A loss would still be a huge deal
The only kind of loss that would be diminished is a late loss by a team that is way ahead of the pack and sure to make the top 8 anyway. Otherwise, any loss is huge, at any time.
Precious few teams would ever clinch a spot in an 8-team playoff, and besides, the games have meaning way beyond impacting a championship. Why do middle-of-the-pack teams play with such intensity late in the season? Not only that, but most big teams end the season with a rivalry game.
Find me a coach who will sit down his starters for a rivalry game, and I think you will have just found me a coach who had damned well better win this national championship he’s resting for or else his longevity is in bad shape. Not only that, but with at least a week off before the playoff, probably two or three weeks, he won’t really want to sit guys down because he wants them to have serious game time as close to the championship game as he can get it.
Thinking about all that, would Alabama really have sat down the starters against Auburn this year? Even 5 minutes earlier than otherwise? I think not. LSU couldn’t be tempted to do it against Arkansas, for sure, because that would’ve been premature, and any temptation to do it against UGA would’ve been overcome by the SEC championship at stake, not to mention the aforementioned desire to keep as much rust as possible off the starters before Jan. 9. OSU or Stanford could not lightly take a loss and be sure of making the top 8, only the 2 SEC teams could do that.
So that’s the first point: the new system would create a minimum of new meaningless games. Really, a very minimal number, none in most years.
Second point: there would suddenly be many more teams staying in contention for the national championship, so for that reason the interest and excitement of the regular season would be enhanced.
This does not address what I was addressing.
Your argument in your previous post is that college football is just inherently more exciting than other sports. I’m saying that part of it is also because there are so few games that every game is life and death. The fact that your playoff suggestion doesn’t change that (according to you; I’m choosing not to address it) is great, and does not change the fact that this is part of what makes college football exciting.
God bless our Dark Lord.
Yes
And, the bigger the playoff the less meaning is put on the regular season. A 4 team playoff wouldn’t affect the regular season as much as an 8, 12, or 16 team playoff would. This is a fact and can’t be ignored. If we had a playoff, the LSU/Bama game on Nov 5 is no where near as important. If not for the colossal meltdown of the other teams in the top 10, we wouldn’t be going to the NC game. The OSU-Iowa State game was important. With a playoff…not so much. It’s pretty plain and simple, this is what makes CFB more exciting that NFL, Basketball, or any other sport. To be fair it isn’t the only thing that makes it better, but it is one of the larger reasons.
Attempting to remove humor from posts since August 30, 2011
Let's take the LSU-Alabama game
It’s a really good example, because there is no other game in the last 5 years that is as vulnerable to being devalued by a playoff. Two undefeated teams, #1 and #2, fairly close to each other and each well ahead of #3.
First, you are right that some of the hoopla would have deflated because everybody would know the loser had a strong chance of going to the playoff anyway. There probably would not have been 175,000 people around Bryant-Denny just trying to glom on to the vibe. And that would be a shame.
But really, that’s all you lose. You lose a little hoopla. You lose a little buzz. But the teams would still have gone at each other like maniacs, and the game would not have changed one whit—except maybe to have been a little higher quality, as the teams wouldn’t have been so tight, as they undeniably were.
To start with, both teams knew how good they were and knew how good the other team were. If you play college football for anything, you play to WIN games like that.
It was LSU vs Alabama, the hottest rivalry in college football. This is a red-hot rivalry between possibly the two strongest programs in the nation, and heated up even farther by Nick Saban’s past. Winning has independent value.
The SEC championship was decided on that field, and that was pretty clear going in that it would be.
The game would’ve had a huge impact on seeding.
Going in, each team may have had a cushion, but they would know after losing that another loss, or even a series of struggles, would knock them out of the playoff. You don’t want to lose your cushion with several games left.
So let’s come back around to what was undeniably lost: hoopla and buzz. Well, it’s all sweet to have great regular-season games, and part of the tradition and everything, but that hooply and buzz would be SWAMPED by an 8-team playoff.
Can you imagine seeing these 7 games over a 3-week period (assuming all favorites win)?
LSU-K St.
Alabama-Boise St.
Oklahoma St.-Arkansas
Oregon-Stanford
LSU-Stanford
Alabama-Oklahoma St.
LSU-Alabama
WOW. And stuff like that would happen every year. How can you possibly think some vague little piece of lost hoopla to a single game—and games like LSU-Alabama in the regular season would only happen about once every five years or so—would make up for getting ALL THAT every year? That is a million miles better than the stupid bowls.
At least there’s one good non-BCSCG matchup this year, Stanford v OSU, but last year the Cap One Bowl was probably the second-best game.
If it’s about good football, you’ve got to go for a playoff.
FWIW, I think there are several good bowl matchups.
Stanford/OSU, Oregon/Wisconsin, Arkansas/Kansas St, and Georgia/Mich St are all games I want to see.
God bless our Dark Lord.
Oregon-Wisconsin is a goody
And comparable to a playoff game, I would agree. (I mean, except for the fact that I hate the Big 10 and Pac 12, plus the game has no effect on Alabama, so I personally don’t give a damn.)
I’ll look forward to those other games, and also to South Carolina-Nebraska, but they’re not comparable to playoff games in any way.
This is a good year for the non-BCSCG bowls. Last year stunk.
I've never cared about the Rose Bowl
in its non-championship years.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Is that a policy you have? LOL
You’re saying that you don’t care about Oregon/Wisconsin because it’s in the Rose Bowl? Or are you saying that you don’t care about Oregon and Wisconsin and the fact that the Rose Bowl always has those B10/P12 games makes you not care about it??
God bless our Dark Lord.
The latter.
I think it’s because I don’t tend to like B1G and P12 football combined with the fact that it comes on after most of the SEC games and before the prime time games.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
I'm there
It’s usually the only game on during a fair portion of its running time, and that’s a good time for me to take a break from football for a couple of hours.
OK.
Personally I like when those PAC-12 games come on at like 11 PM so that they’re on when I get home late at night. Gives me something to fall asleep to.
But I like Wisconsin, fun place and fun people. And Oregon is fun to watch, as long as you’re not hoping for them to beat anyone. So I’m looking forward to that game.
God bless our Dark Lord.
Oh and one more thing
Here’s why I’d like to see a larger playoff (although 6 would be sufficient, and 8 would be fine): it’s because a college football playoff would be the most exciting events in sports, bar none. Every week the playoff gets extended would be a week of pure sports bliss, and the games would be an extra Christmas.
My reasons for not wanting a playoff
The season is a maximum of 14 games already, next stop: 15-game seasons. The more games you force the players into, the more careers get ended. 14 is a sensible enough max. Why push it? Mind you, I DON’T CARE ABOUT $$$$$$$$$$. I just dread the next Prothro-type ending. 14 games is grueling enough.
In a 4-team playoff, you only add 2 extra games to the finalists’ seasons. It sounds sensible until you consider that having a playoff amongst the top-4 in the nation nullifies the premise of conference championship games. I would see resistance from teams because they may have to cut one home game on the off-chance they make into the playoff.
People already bitch/moan/whine about how teams are ranked. What the hell would change when you rank teams the same way and then have the top-4 go into a playoff?
I guess I'll have to stick with my promise to buy myself an early 80s Cadillac Seville now that Alabama is headed to the BCSNCG!!!!
You would have greater buy-in resulting in less dispute
There’s no removing the debate regardless of the selection process or number of teams to include as someone will always be left out.
The reason the plus one has merit is because it’s gets you closer to a playoff type format while only marginally affecting the current system in place.
Talent can only get you so far. Give me a player who has less talent, but the heart of a champion and the will to succeed.
...but only if you agree a playoff-type format has merit....
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Dec 6, 2011 9:25 AM CST up reply actions
Which I do...
ergo…
Talent can only get you so far. Give me a player who has less talent, but the heart of a champion and the will to succeed.
But others do not...
…ergo….
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Dec 7, 2011 9:50 PM CST up reply actions
...Leggo my ergo...
Inductee into the Imperial Order of the Grizzle-My-Nizzle
by TiderUpNorth on Dec 9, 2011 10:35 PM CST up reply actions
10 game regular season
Then follow that up with a playoff for the top 8, 16, or even 32 teams. (Having thought some more about it this season, I’d go with 16 or maybe 12 with byes. But somewhere in there.)
I think the key thing that throws everyone about that scenario is the money angle of the teams that don’t make the playoffs and/or lose early. But there is no good reason why you can’t let the teams excluded from the playoffs continue to play another couple of games, to fight for bowl placement.
If nothing else, you can simply take each set of 4 teams and have two weeks where each gets to play at home. 20 plays at 17; 18 plays at 19. Then the following week, 17 plays at 18; 19 plays at 20. Would be a heck of a lot more exciting for their fans than squeezing in an extra game versus Memphis or Charlston, and would have a direct effect on their bowl prospects.
by Steven Mitchell on Dec 6, 2011 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
Interesting idea
10-game season, and then while the playoff is starting, non-playoff teams also get seeded against each other for a game or two, and bowl bids go out a bit later.
Never thought of this. I will have to boil it over a little, but my initial hit is quite positive. This could solve all the problems. A big playoff would be great, with all the huge games. It would swamp bowl season.
32 is too many, though. Shit teams would get in.
On the number of teams
32 does let some bad teams in, but that isn’t the main objection to it. After all, you want the regular season to still be as important as impossible, and getting a high ranking in it, and thus a relatively easy game in the first round is huge.
However, for this kind of structure to work, you need to worry about home versus away games, and the money thereof. 16 (or 12) teams lets you have a two game play off and pare the list down to 4 teams. (Presumably, you then have a 13th game for those 4 to get down to 2, or you use number of the +1 variants to solve from there.) This guarantees that almost every team gets 6 home, 6 away games. At least two of those games late in the season will be against roughly equal competition.
The exception is the lower seeds in the playoff bracket, who might end up with 5 home games and 7 away. Not a bad price for barely making the playoff. Plus, I’d be fine with some kind of revenue sharing deal (and better than normal ticket splits) for those 16. Heck, you could just total up certain parts of the revenue and divide them 16 ways. That would help soften the economic blow when Ms State makes the cut, and you can only fit so many people into Starkville. Heh.
And of course if you limit it to 8 in the playoff portion, then there is no need for a 13th game at all, and the affect on the bulk of college football is minimal. Exactly 4 teams might have to travel an extra game in return for having a shot at the NC.
by Steven Mitchell on Dec 6, 2011 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
Provisional Plus 1.
In years when more than 2 teams end up undefeated you have seeded games to pair it down to 2 undefeateds.
This year there would be no Plus 1, but if next year USC, Bama, and Clemson all go undefeated then USC & Clemson play in a bowl for the right to play Bama. If 4 teams go undefeated same thing but two games. I have never seen 5 undefeated teams but I guess in that unlikely event you would have to throw in an extra game or just go by BCS finish.
By the way small schools do not count unless they climb into the top 3 of BCS.
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
Yes, please.
Andy Staples: Support of Big 12 athletic directors big boost for plus-one movement
God bless our Dark Lord.

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