Top 10 Reasons Oklahoma State Should Be in the Title Game
Should Oklahoma State Be in the BCS Title Game Instead of Alabama?
Disappointment, frustration, confusion, anger, and even conspiracy theories have precictably permeated certain constituencies in the FBS world after the final BCS rankings were announced last Sunday night. One-loss Alabama was ranked #2 ahead of one-loss Oklahoma State, despite OK State's convincing win over Oklahoma the day before.
OK State fans, OK State coach Mike Gundy, bloggers, certain sportswriters and pundits, and gazillionaire OK State benefactor T. Boone Pickens are insisting that OK State got screwed and should be ranked #2 instead of Alabama, thereby earning the privilege of playing #1 LSU in the BCS title game, primarily because Alabama already lost to LSU on November 5 in the regular season. In the most recent development, a small number of those unhappy individuals are even trying to organize a "boycott" of the BCS title game.
A number of recurring arguments have been made to support OK State's worthiness. Some of them sound good on the surface, but let's dig down and give these arguments a thorough examination.
Argument 1:
LSU and Alabama have already played each other, so a rematch is pointless.
You could just as easily argue against postseason rematches in any sport. With playoff systems, rematches are not uncommon and are not viewed negatively. When rematches occur during the postseason in other sports, no one ever says, "These teams already played in the regular season; therefore, the team that lost the first time shouldn't even be playing the regular-season winner in the postseason."
Stewart Mandel of Sports Illustrated indicates that postseason rematches in the NFL are more defensible because teams that lost to a playoff opponent in the regular season must earn a rematch by advancing through the playoffs, as opposed to being ranked by voters and computers. However, there's no "advancing through the playoffs" if the rematch occurs in the first round. Also, you could argue that Alabama "earned" a rematch by "advancing" through all its games after the LSU loss while other teams (like OK State) lost games during those weeks.
In any event, if the FBS ever implements a playoff system, get ready for more rematches. I hope OK State fans and media pundits will complain about those rematches the same as they're complaining about the LSU-Bama rematch.
Argument 2:
The BCS motto is "Every Game Counts." A rematch makes a mockery of that motto.
On the surface, that argument sounds good, but it doesn't really make sense upon examination. The first LSU-Bama game counted plenty. It knocked Bama out of the #2 ranking. The only reason Bama is back in the #2 spot is because all the other games this season counted also, including the games lost by other highly-ranked teams after Bama lost to LSU. It doesn't make sense to say the the motto should apply to Alabama but it shouldn't really apply to other one-loss teams.
Argument 3:
LSU already beat Alabama, so if Bama wins on January 9, there will be no clear champion.
Precedent says otherwise. Regular season games are not postseason games. When postseason rematches occur during playoffs in other sports, no one says the regular season results should count more or as much as the postseason results. Unlike a regular season game, when teams play in the postseason everyone knows ahead of time that this is either an elimination game or a championship game. Not so in the regular season.
By the way, I don't remember anyone saying there was no clear champion or that the title should be shared when Florida won the 1996 championship by beating Florida State in the Sugar Bowl after losing to FSU in the regular season. After that 1996 regular-season loss, Florida got back in the championship picture only because other good teams lost key games that knocked them out of contention, much like the situation Bama is in today.
Argument 4:
Oklahoma State should play LSU in the title game so fans have a good offensive-defensive match-up. The defensive slugfest on November 5 was boring.
This argument has at least two flaws. Why does having a flashy offense (OK State) make a team more worthy than having the top-ranked defense in the country (Bama)? The BCS title game is supposed to pit the best two teams against each other, not guarantee we have a flashy offense in the game. Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, history shows that flashy, non-SEC offenses don't fare very well in championship games when they meet a top-notch SEC defense. (See Miami-Alabama in 1992; LSU-Oklahoma in 2003; Florida-Ohio State in 2006; LSU-Ohio State in 2007; and Florida-Oklahoma in 2008.) Voters in the Harris and coaches polls know this.
Argument 5:
The BCS computers ranked OK State higher than Alabama, which proves OK State is better objectively.
The computers are only part of the BCS system, for good reason. Computers can measure strength of schedule and do other number-crunching, but they cannot judge intangibles the way humans can. See the second part of the answer to Argument 4, and replace the final sentence with, "Voters in the Harris and coaches polls know this -- the computers don't."
Argument 6:
Alabama couldn't win its own conference, so how can it play for the national championship?
Again, look at the purpose of the BCS title game. The game is not supposed to match up the best two conference champions. Its purpose is to pit the two best teams against each other. This year, the two best teams are from the same conference. There's no way to magically guarantee that the two best teams in the country won't both belong to the same conference.
Argument 7:
OK State beat more top-25 teams than Alabama did.
That's one way to compare the teams. To be fair, if we examine the wins, we also have to examine the losses.
The Cowboys didn't lose to any top-25 teams. So far, so good. However, they lost to unranked Iowa State, a team that probably couldn't beat the 2nd string at Bama or LSU. On the other hand, Bama lost to the most dominating team in the country by three points, due mostly to a bad game by Bama's placekicker and one spectacular play by an LSU defensive back that prevented what would have been the game's only touchdown. That's not to diminish LSU's win -- LSU won fair and square. But, that was the only game all season in which LSU was not able to completely dominate its opponent, and it barely eked out a win.
How did OK State fare against LSU? Oh, wait, I almost forgot -- OK State didn't play LSU or anyone like LSU. And, why is it okay to trust the ranking system when comparing OK State's strength of schedule to Bama's, but we can't trust the system to properly rank teams in the #2 and #3 slots? How does that make sense?
Argument 8:
Bama had its shot but lost. OK State deserves a chance.
Define what it means to be more "deserving." Is it synonymous with "superior?" The BCS system does not engage in the folly of seeking to reward teams that are more "deserving," whatever that means. The system is designed to rank teams based on superiority, not on which teams are more "deserving" (again, whatever that means).
Besides, it's not the BCS's fault that OK State is not in the title game. The Cowboys have only themselves to blame. OK State was undefeated and ranked ahead of Alabama at 8:15 pm on November 6. OK State would be in the title game if not for losing to an inferior team that it had no business losing to. You can't say that about Alabama. Please let us know how any definition of "deserving" puts OK State in the title game while simultaneously explaining the Cowboys' loss to Iowa State. Remember, if you want every game to count, you have to count the inconvenient games, too.
Argument 9:
SEC fans lobbied against Michigan in 2006 because the BCS title game would be a rematch if Michigan had been ranked #2, but they're hypocrites because this time they want a rematch.
It really doesn't matter which fans argue for or against anything. The arguments of fans have nothing to do with BCS rankings. In the end, both in 2006 and 2011, the BCS title game match-up was decided by computer rankings and votes based on which teams were superior, not whether we should have a rematch. In 2006, the computers and voters chose one-loss Florida over one-loss Michigan for valid reasons that were arguably unrelated to anti-rematch sentiment (a claim that was thoroughly validated when Florida pasted Ohio State for the BCS title).
That being said, even if you consider the rematch element, there are distinct differences between 2011 and 2006. In the 2006 season, a rematch made much less sense, not because it would be a rematch, but because Michigan lost to Ohio State in the final game of the regular season, which meant the BCS would have scheduled a rematch of a game that had just been played, with no games in between. This year, Bama played LSU on November 5, with three subsequent games on its schedule. Bama fell out of the #2 spot after the loss to LSU and had to win the rest of its games and benefit from other teams' losses in order to return to #2.
By the way, in 2006, it was Florida coach Urban Meyer (not SEC fans or Bama fans) who lobbied the BCS to rank Florida #2 after Michigan lost to Ohio State. This year, OK State coach Mike Gundy did the same thing. That's what they're supposed to do.
Argument 10:
There's obviously a conspiracy against OK State. We need an investigation, like the one T. Boone Pickens called for.
The BCS somehow conspired with Harris and coaches poll respondents to make them vote a certain way? I see. What about the Big 12 conspiracy for Oklahoma to allow OK State to run away with "Bedlam" to help get a Big 12 team into the BCS title game? Lots of dollars for the Big 12 were at stake. Some of those Oklahoma turnovers were pretty suspicious (wink, wink, nudge, nudge). Perhaps Pickens should investigate that.
While he's at it, he could also investigate why Bama's 1966 team was undefeated and untied and crushed Nebraska (which was ranked #4 at the time) 34-7 in the Sugar Bowl, yet ended up ranked #3 at the end of the season, while the teams ranked #1 (Notre Dame) and #2 (Michigan State) both had a tie-game on their records and didn't even play bowl games. Could that 1966 conspiracy have happened because Bama won national titles in 1964 and 1965, so voters thought someone else "deserved" the championship for a change? I look forward to Pickens' investigation into that conspiracy. Meanwhile, can we please return to reality now?
Saban's Influence
There's one more little issue that OK State fans and pundits are complaining about. Alabama coach Nick Saban caused some ire by ranking Stanford #3 and OK State #4 when he voted in the coaches poll, thereby slightly lowering the value of OK State's stock in the final BCS rankings. I'm not defending Saban's decision here; however, virtually everyone will agree that if one-loss Stanford had finished undefeated, they'd probably be playing LSU for the BCS title. So, let's compare losses between Alabama, Stanford, and OK State. Bama lost by three points to everyone's choice for team of the century (at least for now). Stanford's only loss was to Oregon, the Pac 12 champion, currently ranked #5. Then we have OK State's loss to Iowa State, a team that finished unranked with a 6-6 record. In that light, it's not hard to see why someone might rank Stanford ahead of OK State. (Maybe more voters should have done that?) In the end it doesn't matter because the Cowboys would still be #3 in the BCS rankings, even if Saban had voted them ahead of Stanford, so basically the complaint is moot. Also note that the AP poll ranks Alabama #2 and the Cowboys #3, just like the coaches poll, and Saban did not "taint" the AP poll since he has no AP vote.
Let's Wrap This Up
Is the BCS system perfect? Of course not. No system designed by human beings is perfect. The system works well when two teams with strong schedules finish the season undefeated while all other teams have at least one loss. The BCS guarantees that those two teams will play for the national title in a bowl game. Before the BCS, there was no such guarantee.
However, the BCS system is less than perfect when we have more than two such undefeated teams (such as Southern Cal, Oklahoma, and Auburn in 2004) or when the #2 slot must be filled from among two or more one-loss teams that can make a valid case for the #2 ranking (such as this season). On those occasions, someone's always going to be unhappy with the results. However, until we have a playoff system, the BCS is the best we can do. It stands to reason that we'll eventually have a playoff system, but please don't harbor the delusion that controversies like we have right now will simply go away at that point. There will potentially always be a situation where one team makes the playoffs while another team that looks just as good on paper does not get in. A good playoff system should mitigate that possibility to the fullest extent possible. Let's keep a good thought.
Until then, however, we have the BCS title game system. If you don't agree with it, you have to man-up, live with it, and move on. Virtually every major FBS program can point to some season in the past where it feels like it was screwed out of a national title (like Alabama in 1966). If you don't have one of those seasons in your history, you haven't yet hit the big time. So, welcome to the big time, Oklahoma State.
FanPosts are just that; posts created by the fans. They are in no way indicative of the opinions of SBN and the authors of Roll Bama Roll.
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We've went over ALL of this.
‘08 and ’09 we got to see big12 vs sec, we don’t need it again, it’s obvious which conference is better.
Alabama left 12 pts off the board, so really, if you think about it, whoever wins will be determined the “real champion”. I still see that first game as a major fluke.
I can’t speak for everyone, but I’m pretty sure the majority of us don’t wanna go over this again, it’s done for.
I LOVE THE ASTROS. Now lets win something!
by ccislanders on Dec 9, 2011 10:55 PM CST via mobile reply actions
sorry for the delay
ccislanders,
I wrote this on Tuesday but couldn’t get it posted until friday due to difficulty with my account. Didn’t mean to post so late, but after composing this lengthy missive, I couldn’t let it go to waste. Sorry about that.
by Mister Know-It-All on Dec 10, 2011 6:53 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Don't blame you
That took a lot of time and effort.
Hope the pokes see it. Fun to see their heads explode!
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
Its aight, I never right fanposts on here caude I only have phone.
So ya, your right, this story did take a long time.
I wasn’t trying to sound like a deush if I did.
No biggy.
I LOVE THE ASTROS. Now lets win something!
by ccislanders on Dec 10, 2011 12:25 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Hey Boone
the reason you don’t have a play off is because when we asked for one, only the ACC went with it. Time for some real painful truth, the reason your conference head honcho’s turned it away is because they were affraid that the SEC would consistently have 2 of the 4 teams. What they saw is reality, that for the time being, to have such a system would be to invite disaster for every other conference. If you think you hate us now, just wait until you get your wish, and the vast majority of the time you get 2 SEC squads in the top four. I get that outsiders don’t like the concept of a rematch; however, all I will say is that you should be careful of what you wish for. For example, if you had a plus one game this year, Alabama would play Okie St, while LSU would get either Oregon or Stanford. So basically, you are telling me that if you want a plus you honestly believe that Oregon (who got skull fucked on opening day against LSU) or Stanford (who got a beat down from Oregon) stands a legit shot at beating LSU. Additionally, you would also be of the belief that Okie St would have a good shot against us. Considering that both LSU and Bama would be playing at home in this particular instance, I would like to have a sample of the drugs you are consuming.
Further, and time for another reality check. While all these schools play wide open and effective offense against sub par defenses, until another team decides to play ball control and suffocating defense, you will continue to come up short against us in big bowl games. This will obviously be the 6th straight SEC title. Prior to that, Texas won, in a game that featured no defense, so basically the break was that they drew USC and not an SEC squad. Prior to that, Oklahoma won a title, care to know why? They won a championship game 13-2, because they played a style consistent with what is currently the SEC norm. Ohio State did the same, as did Miami; bottom line, keep scoring a bazillion points a week, but don’t remotely bother playing on the other side of the ball or catering to it, because it clearly gets championship results.
So basically, you are telling me that if you want a plus you honestly believe that Oregon (who got skull fucked on opening day against LSU) or Stanford (who got a beat down from Oregon) stands a legit shot at beating LSU. Additionally, you would also be of the belief that Okie St would have a good shot against us.
Being for a +1 does not mean that you believe these things. I would like to see us play OSU and beat them because that would remove all doubt that we deserve to be playing for the NC.
God bless our Dark Lord.
The others are searching their own shit for ideas, trying to get rid of the SEC dominating.
But the SEC will never be stopped from dominating.
I LOVE THE ASTROS. Now lets win something!
by ccislanders on Dec 10, 2011 12:28 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Good stuff, but you're trying to hard.
We’re in. Anybody who doesn’t like it can go @%#^ themselves. Maybe if the big 10 had been winning championships every year for the better half of a decade, people would have been more open to a rematch.
We just need to beat LSU, that will shut up any talk about bama not deserving another shot at LSU. Wouldn’t mind seeing stanford beat osu as well.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
clearly a lot of effort put into this
Good points. Especially like #2 and #10. Also agree with Zoltar. Best-case scenario to give the hates an Old Testament smiting is for Bama to beat LSU, by at least 3, and for Stanford to beat Okie State by any margin. Then all you’ll hear is crickets chirping. Only downside is then I’ll have to change my screen name (a price I’ll happily pay)!
Definitely hoping for Stanford to shut OSU up.
Of course then the pokes will say it was because “they didn’t want to be there”.
God bless our Dark Lord.
Well, we didn't want to play Utah, either
Plus Andre…blahblahblah
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
Well, I was kinda on the fence
But you’ve convinced me!
Now go post it on the Cowboys’ site. Good work!
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
Very well thought out...
…and anyone with half a brain would agree. Pokes just need to STFU already. It’s DONE haters!!!
Also, go Stanford!
You had me at "ROLL TIDE"!!!
Also though, regarding the computers,
They were NOT unanimous. 2 out of the 6 computers had Bama ahead of OSU. And OSU’s lead in the other 4 was not large.
So after looking at all of the objective facts about the Ws and Ls (except margin-of-victory, which the computers are not allowed to consider), the computers had it as almost a tie between us. Then it was up to the voters to break that tie, and they did so by a large margin.
God bless our Dark Lord.
Sorry, Mr Know It All...
OSU got beat by unranked ISU in the next to last game of the season…a team that would not be bowl bound had OSU taken care of business…that kind of a loss is unforgivable to have a championship season. Every game counts, right?
BUT, BUT….OSU beat up on OU….
So what? They were without two of their best offensive playmakers and Landrey folded like a towel. Besides…they were defeated by TT and Baylor, so who exactly SHOULD be impressed with the OU win?
BUT, BUT….OMGZ…OSU beat more top 25 teams…
Hmmm. Texas, aTm…he..hehe…HAHAHAHAHA. Great job, guys.
BUT, BUT….Offense and Air-Raid and yards and points and shit….
Defense wins championships, and based on your handle, you should know that.
BUT, BUT…Plane crashes and tragedy and distraction and shit…(according to a number of butthurt OSU fans…)
IMA STOP YOU RIGHT THERE…How about tornado(s) and shit? Look, loss of life is sad. Especially if anyone goes before his/her time. But there is no place for using these events as an excuse to wine their way into a championship. It is very tacky and classless. Besides, being up on ISU 24 to 7 in the 3rd Quarter…umm, yea…
OSU, you have a decent team…if you blow away Stanford, then we will talk. Better luck next season.
Tigers Hide and rooooll that TIDE!
I disagree on two points...
1. It’s sposed to be Mistra Know-It-All
2. LSU isn’t the most dominating team in college football. You’re thinking of Alabama. Roll Tide.
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Dec 10, 2011 12:22 PM CST reply actions
I concur brotha.
I LOVE THE ASTROS. Now lets win something!
by ccislanders on Dec 10, 2011 12:30 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
sorry...my bad
was going off 4 hrs sleep when i wrote it.
I just saw the title of the post skimmed through it. And as well-presented as the post was….I just cant put any stock in OSU. They havent proven anything as a program yet to be national champions.
Tigers Hide and rooooll that TIDE!
oops internet reading comp fail....
its actually a pretty good read having actually read it just now…
ima go la down now. its been a long week….
my apologies to the OP.
Roll Tide
Tigers Hide and rooooll that TIDE!
I'll have some cheese with that wine...
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
As far as Stanford being ranked #3.
They are going to take OSU to the woodshed in Tempe.
Stanford actually plays tackle football, very much like the SEC. OSU plays flag football like everyone else in the Big 12. OSU’s defense thrives on the turnovers which they pick up from their fellow Big 12 schools throwing it all around and leaving in on the ground. Luck is a little better than that and their TE’s are dominating.
So, was Saban stacking the deck by putting Stanford #3? Nope, he just knows football and he knows Stanford is better than OSU.
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
Stanford played against a wide-open, non "tackle football" Oregon, and
Luck and the Cardinal didn’t look particularly impressive.
undefeated in Sun Belt play
Why all the fuss?
Nobody is arguing that LSU belongs in the NC. Their only arguing whether Alabama (OT-loss), or Ok St (plane crash -loss) belong. I’m not saying Alabama doesn’t deserve to be in the NC. However, after OU went up to Iowa St and put a 26-6 beat down on them, just to have OSU shut down OU, and put a 44-10 shellacking on them, the next week. This validates my, and many others opinion that OSU shouldn’t have played ISU that day. They would still be undefeated.
What is needed is one lousy game between OSU & Bama. Can anyone tell me why that CAN’T happen? Or at this point, couldn’t. It makes total sense. LSU had to play an extra game anyway. So OSU & Bama play, their all equal. Its solves everything.
If you ever wanted to see Boise St play...may be a good chance. Love em or Hate em, they are always interesting; and now, no matter where you live, "They're Coming To Your City"
How?
Both teams are playing for the National Championship. If LSU wins this game, LSU wins the National Championship. If Alabama wins this game, Alabama wins the National Championship.
Both teams are playing for the exact same thing. I find your confusion on this topic confusing.
Thirteen.
Because LSU is already #1
and has already beaten Alabama. LSU has nothing to gain. At best, they remain exactly where they are now. At worst, they move down.
You've got a little derp on your shirt....
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Dec 15, 2011 12:07 PM CST up reply actions
In that case...
let’s claim the Natty in 2010! We were pre-season #1, so we really had nothing to play for last year.
Yeah, just realized I’m troll-feeding. What NLS said.
Thirteen.
Wait, what?
This validates my, and many others opinion that OSU shouldn’t have played ISU that day. They would still be undefeated.
I don’t understand what you’re saying. Why exactly shouldn’t Okklahoma State have played against Iowa State?
Thirteen.
I think he's trying to play the belated sympathy card.
“Why, oh why weren’t we distraught enough to cancel that game?!”
God bless our Dark Lord.
Are you really joking about the tragic deaths of four highly respected people?
If you ever wanted to see Boise St play...may be a good chance. Love em or Hate em, they are always interesting; and now, no matter where you live, "They're Coming To Your City"
No
but we are laughing at your awful grammar and critical thinking skills. If they were so upset, how did they jump out to a 24-7 lead in that game?
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
No, I'm not at all.
I’m shaking my head at your self-serving use of that tragic incident.
God bless our Dark Lord.
Did you know that Texas Tech didn't win again after knocking off Oklahoma?
Does that mean Oklahoma should have canceled that game?
God bless our Dark Lord.
Where were you in 2008?
What is needed is one lousy game between OSU & Bama. Can anyone tell me why that CAN’T happen?
I can tell you why that can’t happen.
What you’re asking for sounds like a playoff system. Remember when SEC commissioner Mike Slive proposed a playoff system back in 2008? Except for the ACC, all other conferences (including the Big 12) were OPPOSED to the idea. Here’s a quote from Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe: “There’s a strong feeling in the Big 12 that what we have is working well,” Beebe said. “There’s great satisfaction with the regular season and the postseason.”
So, if you want to know why “that” can’t happen, just ask Beebe.
by Mister Know-It-All on Dec 11, 2011 9:16 PM CST up reply actions
Thanks for the decent response MKIA
I don’t want a playoff, just some tweaks to Roys vision when necessary. This year could have been a 3 team, 1 bi bracket, last year easy, 4 team, year before 6 team, 2 bi bracket. Keeps all bowls in plays + one. It also might add a wildcard style game(s) at the end of a season. Keep it flexible that’s all. I’m hoping it doesn’t, but if things stay the same, its going to an ugly playoff system. People outside of Bama and ESPN are more pissed this year than any year. I’m just trying to help….Not even just talking about the NCG..
If you ever wanted to see Boise St play...may be a good chance. Love em or Hate em, they are always interesting; and now, no matter where you live, "They're Coming To Your City"
If you check other threads here, we've all been talking about the same thing, setting up a +1 type system in the future.
But it’s not going to happen this year. The world doesn’t work that way. Get used to it, i.e. don’t hold your breath.
By the way, it’s “bye” not “bi”.
God bless our Dark Lord.
Thanks for the correction teach," bi" the way, when is the midterm? (:
If you ever wanted to see Boise St play...may be a good chance. Love em or Hate em, they are always interesting; and now, no matter where you live, "They're Coming To Your City"

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