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The College Football Coach's Conundrum

This week has witnessed one of the most dramatic career flameouts in college football history. The resignation of Ohio State's Jim Tressel is, in its own way, as shocking and disturbing to behold as Woody Hayes punching Charlie Bauman in the throat in 1978. Depicting them as morally equivalent is tempting but dangerously misguided.

Hayes was felled by a transgression of his personal behavior. His fall was his and his alone. Tressel's conduct, while clearly reprehensible, was the result of a larger ethical problem. His abysmal choices at pretty much every step in the case makes it tempting to oversimplify the situation. There are rules. He broke them. Then he tried to hide breaking them. Therefore he deserves punishment. What could be more straightforward than that?

Quite a bit, actually. Tressel might be an outlier but to insist his situation is different from any other coach at a major college program is to miss the point entirely. The decisions he made on how to run the OSU program are the same ones made by every coach in America and that he chose unwisely doesn't mean the peril doesn't exist for any of the others.

(And just to be clear, this isn't a defense of nor an attack on Tressel. It's an attempt to understand something about the situation that led to his "retirement" from OSU.)

Sports Illustrated's Andy Staples made the assertion on twitter that every college coach operates in a grey area. The difference he argues, "is a matter of degree." This is very much true although the moral component toward the existence of a grey area itself overwhelms the basic point. College football, by its very nature, involves a compromise of values. For some, this is grounds to eliminate the game entirely, for others who believe the sport is worth the difficulty of wrestling with this conundrum, it’s a starting point.

Star-divide

The recipe for success in college football is pretty simple. The better the players you have, the more likely your chances of winning. Since his humble start as SMQ, Dr. Saturday has been running the numbers on this and finds there is a direct relation between the quality of recruits and overall win percentage. A big reason Alabama has seen such an uptick in on-the-field success since Coach Saban arrived can be tied to the improvement on the recruiting trail.

The problem is there are only so many high quality players out there and the market for them is unnaturally regulated since it's in the academic environment. The standard of amateurism limits the player's ability to be compensated for their primary asset - their athletic skills. That creates a black market which is trafficked by the most distasteful elements of the sport. All the hot-button issues that plague college football - such as rogue boosters and unscrupulous agents - emerge from this conflict.

Above the waterline are the restrictions placed on the sport to limit these excesses. Almost every NCAA rule exists - in theory anyway - to limit exploitation of the amateur athlete. Since these players cannot be rewarded by their true market value there is constant tension between the regulations that exist and the necessity of having them on the field to compete in order to win.

Yet, coaches at the big schools are paid a premium price to produce those wins. Their continued employment hangs on their ability to provide them. The higher profile the coach, the greater the pressure to win. And that puts them athwart this difficult conundrum. The situation is roughly expressed like so:

The more you push the boundaries on the rules the better the chances at winning. The safer you play it in terms of personnel, the less likely you'll have double digits in the W column at the end of the season. (Neither, I must add, are a sure thing. You can cheat a thousand times every day but never capitalize on the advantage. The point is you are trying to improve the odds which are already long to begin with.)

Every big time college coach looks long and hard at that formula and figures out the range of it he's comfortable to fall within. That's a tricky problem since you never know if the wins are sure enough to keep your employer happy nor when the hammer of sanctions by the NCAA will fall. If you are at, say, Vanderbilt you stick staunchly to the far left and stay home in bowl season sleeping the sleep of the righteous. At OSU where the demands for wins is much more adamant, Tressel chose to go exceedingly far to the right. Eventually he fell off. 

So let's say a coach made his decision on where he felt he was comfortable on the curve. To wit:

Now there are options available to coaches in order to swing the odds in their favor. A change in strategy, for example, can push the curve itself higher on the chart increasing the possibility of winning while not incurring a greater chance of infractions.For the most part these strategies are what are considered legal.

So let's say you are stuck with a limited amount of players and you don't get creative in recruiting superstars, you might find an offensive scheme that increases their chances of wining. As you see depicted here (where the pink line indicates the initial curve):

The problem is these changes are much less reliable than simply adding better players and even if they are effective, eventually the curve will return to it's natural position. Other schools will see the success and replicate it, muting the ability of the originator to continue to capitalize on it. The spread is a good example of this phenomena.

(The contrast is the penalties placed on a team by the NCAA for violating the rules. The loss of scholarships limits the available talent while more vigilant oversight holds the team to a point further on the left of the curve. The probability of wins suffers dramatically.)

This is one reason the oversigning debate seems so ludicrous to SEC fans. The various practices that fall under this hazy definition seek to maximize the amount of talent a team can utilize while remaining within the limitation of the regulations. Insisting a coach taking an ethical stand by willingly abandoning a legal practice means throwing away a competitive edge against the other teams he faces. His paycheck and the conditions that accompany it make it an unrealistic demand. Object to the situation? Then change the rule and level the playing field.

The size of compliance departments has ballooned in recent years not because there is a greater amount of rule breaking going on but due to the fact oversight has become that much more rigorous. It has never been easy to hide infractions but now it's almost impossible. Compliance assures that excesses can be constrained but also, possible infractions are identified ahead of time and addressed. The better your compliance department the more confident you feel for your placement on the curve. Still are student athletes any better off with the growing bureaucracy it represents?

Of course there is a long standing argument that this entire scenario is a case for the elimination of the sport as a whole. If it creates an environment that is irreconcilable with the academic institutions which foster it. The popularity of the game and the financial rewards institutions incur from it make that possibility a remote one.

The demise of Tressel won't bring about a dramatic change of this situation either. Things might change at OSU like they currently are at USC and have happened at Alabama. At best it might ignite a round of wider reforms that occur every so often in the sport. No matter how robust those efforts, they cannot eliminate the tension that exists between the baseline goal of winning and the restrictions abiding by the rules put in place to preserve amateurism. We will have another great scandal and subsequent outpouring of moral indignation like we've seen this week. Count on it. It's part of the game.

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Great article and...

as usually well reasoned. The issue I have is that you start with the assumed but unproven idea that everyone cheats. I’m not willing to concede that. For one, it acts as a shield for the guilty, mitigating the deserved punishment. For another, it is the ultimate invitation to cheat.
I have known many in variously despised professions, notably attorneys. In my experience, truth is that the rank and file of people, no matter what their profession, choose to operate within the rules. I have found that to be especially true of those with real talent.

If it were up to me, I'd blitz on offense too.

by The Heffalump on May 31, 2011 6:36 PM CDT reply actions  

i'm not saying everyone cheats

i’m saying there is a connection between increasing the probability of infractions given the key element in increasing the probability of winning has to do with an artificially undervalued asset.

you always have the option of playing it safe and staying well within the bounds of the rules but, if you’ve been paid a very big salary to get wins, you’ll find you might be endangering your career. that’s the crux of the problem.

the analogy i used to explain this earlier today was nascar. in the interest of safety they insist cars include restrictor plates that keep speeds down artificially. it’s in the best interest of every competitor to test the limits of that prohibition in pursuit of the goal of winning. the closer you get to that margin, the more likely you’ll fall afoul with the regulation.

college football is infinitely more complex due to the manifold rules that exist to preserve the amateur values as well as the legion of methods employed to surmount it. the entire existence of compliance departments is due to this.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on May 31, 2011 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

To clarify

I may have been unfair to you. If so I apologize. When you say "probability of incurring infractions" are you saying that the incurring school has actually broken a rule or that they have come close enough to doing so that a governing body needs to step in and by stepping in remind everyone and establish that the as yet unbroken rule does indeed exist?

If it were up to me, I'd blitz on offense too.

by The Heffalump on May 31, 2011 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

more the latter

but, obviously, while the “proper” method of increasing wins would be seeking methods of moving the curve up as i note. the converse is to artificially find a way to reduce the possibility of being detected committing infractions.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on May 31, 2011 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

As to the possibility of being detected...

I see sights like this and rivals and the entirety of the cfb blogoshpere making that harder and harder to do. I don’t mean to come off as Poly Anne-ish. I understand that there are cheaters – witness OSU – but I feel that they are the exceptions. Pushing the limits is just that. Breaking the rules, with the number of eyes on the process as there is, is no easy task.
I understand the disparity in positions our here. I’ve read your articles and from them I’ve found you to be someone who defines a position as defensible before taking it. I’m a Bama fan on a weeks vacation enjoying a glass of rose in his back yard. My thoughts on this thread are merely gut feelings and I’ll be willing to admit error. My main question to you (and the thread as well I suppose) is: do you see college coaches as cheaters held back by rules or as honest contenders finding every advantage allowed them?

If it were up to me, I'd blitz on offense too.

by The Heffalump on May 31, 2011 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

everyone looks for an advantage

everyone is in danger of falling afoul of the rules. that said, one advisable strategy is maximizing your ability to self-police yourself concerning the rules. thus the involvement of more aggressive compliance departments.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on May 31, 2011 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd go with the majority being honest competitors...

… who will look for every possible advantage. Another pitfall is this: once you cross the line, how do you cross back…? Once you’ve gotten away with it, how much longer do you let it go on…?

Like the earliest days of cyber crime, when traders could shave cents off here and there, which wouldn’t be noticed — until they stopped. Then there would be a jump which would get them noticed, then probably caught…

by Jeff Jones on May 31, 2011 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Heh.
the analogy i used to explain this earlier today was nascar.
college football is infinitely more complex due to the manifold rules that exist to preserve the amateur values as well as the legion of methods employed to surmount it.

Gold.

Thirteen.

by Darth Saban on May 31, 2011 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

The rank and file...

are generally lost to history. In the arena of money and ego, the definition of “rank and file” changes somewhat.

As kleph pointed out, he’s not talking about the head coach at Vanderbilt or Weber State. He’s talking about coaches that want and expect to win championships, even if not with their current employer.

Thirteen.

by Darth Saban on May 31, 2011 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

well, i am talkiing about those coaches

in that they have to deal with this situation as well. but, no, they don’t have the pressure to push the X further to the right in the same way that other coaches do.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on May 31, 2011 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're right.
If you are at, say, Vanderbilt you stick staunchly to the far left and stay home in bowl season sleeping the sleep of the righteous. At OSU where the demands for wins is much more adamant

I mischaracterized what you were saying, but I hope the point got across, even if somewhat poorly.

Thirteen.

by Darth Saban on May 31, 2011 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

one of the assumptions i'm making here

is that everyone involved would prefer to abide by the rules and behave in accordance with them. the problem arises given the other variables involved in the equation and the contrary goals the system is designed to achieve.

or, to put it differently, i don’t think anyone puts their X as far to the left as possible out of a desire to break the rules. it is the hope of accruing wins that pushes coaches further in that direction.

so, yes, i actually agree with the “rank and file” observation being made.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on May 31, 2011 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Trying to ensure I understand, not be a jerk.
or, to put it differently, i don’t think anyone puts their X as far to the left as possible out of a desire to break the rules. it is the hope of accruing wins that pushes coaches further in that direction.

This is a typo, right? You mean to the right, I think, or else I’m missing something.

Thirteen.

by Darth Saban on May 31, 2011 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

you are correct.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on May 31, 2011 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

You are a complex and conflicted individual, kleph...
Sports Illustrated’s Andy Staples made the assertion on twitter that every college coach operates in a gray area. The difference he argues, “is a matter of degree.” This is very much true although the moral component toward the existence of a grey area itself overwhelms the basic point.

Both spellings of the shade in the same paragraph. It’s things like this that make English so difficult to learn.

Thirteen.

by Darth Saban on May 31, 2011 6:51 PM CDT reply actions  

when we start charging subscriptions

and can employ a copy editor, i’ll worry about it more.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on May 31, 2011 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

i know that

i put more effort in trying to make sure my argument was clear than cleaning up the typos.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on May 31, 2011 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sounds good to me.

I love your analyses (I always check this word) and arguments, and appreciate the time you obviously put into them.

Thirteen.

by Darth Saban on May 31, 2011 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

well part of the point of posting this theory

was to get feedback on it. it’s actually an idea i’ve developed doing my research into the history of the alabama football program. i’d like to hear it discussed a bit given the present situation since folks are more likely to be familiar with the details than, say, the state of affairs in the southern conference in 1922.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on May 31, 2011 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

That bothered you more than the cosmetics reference?
All the hot-button issues that plague college football – such as rouge boosters and unscrupulous agents – emerge from this conflict.

by monjardin on May 31, 2011 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

if you are volunteering to become our copy editor

we’ll be more than glad to pay you exactly what we all get for producing these entries.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on May 31, 2011 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Regrettably, I don't see it this way.
Almost every NCAA rule exists – in theory anyway – to limit exploitation of the amateur athlete.

As a starting matter, I recognize that you qualify this with the “almost,” and “in theory.” That being said, I think that one of the primary focii of the NCAA is to maximize revenues. (I don’t know that many NCAA rules, so I’m completely talking for unsupported supposition and bias.) An argument can certainly be made that attempts to artificially impose parity benefit the athlete – recruiting restrictions, scholarship limits, etc., would seemingly give good athletes better opportunities for playing time, even if at traditionally less competitive schools, and thereby increase their exposure. Matt Cassels are rare.

However, I think most would agree that rules designed to foster parity despite disparate interest and resource commitment are geared more towards maximizing revenues. Alabama and Ohio State fans are already watching. Now let’s get the folks of Idaho and Nevada (outside of Las Vegas and Reno) and Hawai’i watching and buying tickets and merchandise.

Thirteen.

by Darth Saban on May 31, 2011 7:10 PM CDT reply actions  

as a regulatory body

which is the capacity i am referring to it here. the association’s primary function is not to maximize profits. it is to ensure the amateur standing of the participants involved in the sport.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on May 31, 2011 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

or, to clarify, the "almost" in this instance

would be the association’s other primary concern as a regulatory agency – safety of the participants. it is possible some rules exist for that purpose that run counter to the goal of ensuring amateurism (although i can’t think of one off the top of my head).

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on May 31, 2011 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well...

aside from the arguments that I made earlier (that I believe to be hogwash), in what way does artificially promoting parity ensure the amateur standing of the participants, or promote the safety of the participants?

Aside from increasing the number of football fans / advertising and marketing dollars, what’s it to the NCAA how many scholarships that Alabama / Ohio State / USC gives players as contrasted with Florida International / Arkansas State / Wyoming?

Thirteen.

by Darth Saban on May 31, 2011 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

i don't know if i can address that

but additional regulation would put more pressure on the system. any effort for parity would further alter the state of affairs from the the players actual value to the system. thus inflating their “black market” value and increasing the temptation to skirt the rules to acquire their services.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on May 31, 2011 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

what’s it to the NCAA how many scholarships that Alabama / Ohio State / USC gives players as contrasted with Florida International / Arkansas State / Wyoming?

I never considered it as a maximizing revenue thing, but I agree that this is not about preserving amateurism. The reason (as far as I can figure) the NCAA pursues that goal is because the NCAA is an association of colleges, all of whom have an equal vote, and the UAs, OSUs, and USCs of the world are a minority within that association.

How much longer till kickoff?

by CarrotTop4 on Jun 7, 2011 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good article

I think I will try to temper my enthusiasm for OSU’s humbling with this factor: the OSU case/scandal will be on the SMU (extreme) end of examples of NCAA violators.

Like SMU, OSU is looking like it is absolutely rife with varying levels of corruption and has been for a decade. Say what you want about Dye at Allbarn, OSU already has canaries flying to microphones with each passing day. By the time all of the evidence is collected, OSU will far surpass the USC example.

That said, I think applying the “this happens in most competitive programs” argument is quite misleading. If this were occurring throughout the typical top-15 schools, OSU would be joining the ranks of at least five-eight other programs as being under serious investigation by the NCAA. Personally, I think OSU operated to such an extreme of corruption, I can’t imagine what a program could do to surpass this… but you know what school I’m thinking of.

Charles Martel, Charlemagne, William the Conqueror, Raymond IV the Count of Toulouse, Godfrey of Bouillon, Baldwin of Boulogne, Henry II, Richard the Lionheart, St. Joan of Arc and Napoleon Bonaparte -- all of good stock.

by TiderUpNorth on May 31, 2011 7:24 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

this is part of my real reason for writing this

i find myself suspicious of the allegation "this happens in most competitive programs" as well. but because i think it is a gross misrepresentation of the situation that produces these kinds of incidents. the point is that every program battles these baseline issues due to the system itself. but, and this is most important in my thinking, that does not absolve them of responsibility for their actions when they chose inadvisable courses of action to resolve the conundrum.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on May 31, 2011 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Even so...

the fact that everyone speeds, even if true, generally doesn’t prevent you from getting a ticket.

Thirteen.

by Darth Saban on May 31, 2011 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

but you'll buy a radar detector

to ensure you aren’t.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on May 31, 2011 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

And then, the gov't will get better (undectable) radar guns

And then, the radar detectors will get better at detection, and so on, and so on…

This is why that when big bureaucracies (and governments for that matter) create more laws/rules, it opens the door for more corruption and ‘ways to get around’ them, etc Generally creating rules/laws are around the ability to generate revenue and power, plain and simple. And often it gets to the point that any original intent (even if it seemed good at the time) gets lost in the ever-growing monster.

The speed limit argument is perfect for this discussion. Originally, they felt (or they used this as their justification) that speed limits would help ‘save lives’. In reality, it is strictly a revenue stream for the government. They’ve gained power by telling you that you don’t know how to control yourself and your car (and we believe them) and then introduce taxes (and remember that a tax is revenue at the point of a gun) to ‘teach you a lesson’. The original ‘saving lives’ concept is nullified and as it turns out, wrong to begin with.

The NCAA has gone so far away from what they were initially intended to do (and there is debate as to the validity of that as well) that it is damn near unrecognizable. Coaches/teams naturally begin to push the envelope to ‘get around’ whatever dipshit rule the bureaucracy came up with originally. It is natural… as humans, the more our freedoms are taken away, the more we rebel to gain that freedom back. Generally, that rebellion will be ‘under the covers’ or ‘black market’ type stituations. The ‘black market’ in this situation rears up in the form of boosters, rogue coaches, negligent administrators, etc…

There's no way, *no* way that you came from *my* loins. Soon as I get home, first thing I'm gonna do is punch yo mamma in da mouth! - B.T.J.

by JokerBama on Jun 1, 2011 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Haha...

Are you saying “Pics or it didn’t happen!” ? HA

There's no way, *no* way that you came from *my* loins. Soon as I get home, first thing I'm gonna do is punch yo mamma in da mouth! - B.T.J.

by JokerBama on Jun 2, 2011 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Clarification

I don’t think Kleph meant that this is happening at every competitive program, at least I hope he isn’t saying this. However, I am quickly tiring of people (whom I work with mostly) who seem to think this shit is happening EVERYWHERE outside of South Bend.

Charles Martel, Charlemagne, William the Conqueror, Raymond IV the Count of Toulouse, Godfrey of Bouillon, Baldwin of Boulogne, Henry II, Richard the Lionheart, St. Joan of Arc and Napoleon Bonaparte -- all of good stock.

by TiderUpNorth on May 31, 2011 7:34 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

i think every competitive program

has to address this situation.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on May 31, 2011 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree that every program must stay vigilant

A great example is Florida with Meyer. How many players were arrested there in past 4 years? When the cat is away, the mice will play and young men away from their parents for the first time will act as immature as their age suggests. However, I’m just not believing that every program has allowed it players to get AS out of control as OSU.

We can all be thankful Coach Saban is the control freak that he is. Dubose couldn’t control alumni/boosters, much less build/coach a disciplined squad.

Charles Martel, Charlemagne, William the Conqueror, Raymond IV the Count of Toulouse, Godfrey of Bouillon, Baldwin of Boulogne, Henry II, Richard the Lionheart, St. Joan of Arc and Napoleon Bonaparte -- all of good stock.

by TiderUpNorth on May 31, 2011 8:07 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

However, I’m just not believing that every program has allowed it players to get AS out of control as OSU.

i do not say this. i say every program faces the same pressures osu did but, obviously, others have taken different routes to handle it.

We can all be thankful Coach Saban is the control freak that he is.

i agree. the effort the alabama program now puts into determining exactly where that X needs to be in order to minimize the possibility of infractions while maximizing the probability of wins is immense.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on May 31, 2011 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great article Kleph.

To be honest I’m surprised more college coaches don’t have emotional breakdowns. I’d assume most of them got into coaching because they love football and because they have a desire to help young people. There is some big money if you make it to be a HC at a big D-1 school, but most never do. So, I’m going to guess money was not the prime motivation to become a coach. But, when you make it to your dream job there is pressure to stay there. You can only stay there if you walk a very fine line between the rules and getting the tip players as you pointed out.

I would say there may be one exception to this conundrum. That would be a guy like Chizik. I actually think Chizik was tapped by Auburn because they felt he was just dumb enough for the “powers that be” to run the show without him ever even knowing it. So you have a HC that is so out of the loop he doesn’t even know his program is cheating. He actually thinks someone like Cam wants to come to the school just to be a part of the “family.” (Even though he clearly was comign for juist one year.)

And what a brilliant strategy because a coach like that can not be gotten by the NCAA because, unlike Tressel, he really doesn’t know anything is a foot.

If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.

by 5026 on May 31, 2011 7:26 PM CDT reply actions  

well that's a good point

and the reason i didn’t address it is that i still haven’t got that part of the equation clear in my mind. but coaches are given their mandate by their employers and that has a hell of a lot to do with where they chose to place that X.

more importantly, this is exactly the issue i’ve been wrestling with looking at the alabama program from a historical perspective. but i’ve got a lot more work to do on that before proposing a specific hypothesis. for now, if your interest is piqued, i urge you to pick up the works of andrew doyle at winthrop university.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on May 31, 2011 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

This sounds like good boilerplate.

“Foolish and Useless Sport: The Southern Evangelical Crusade Against Intercollegiate Football”, Journal
of Sport History, 1997.

If it were up to me, I'd blitz on offense too.

by The Heffalump on May 31, 2011 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

ah yes,

the origins of the moral objection to the sport. it’s not something bored sportswriters dreamed up yesterday, sad to say.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on May 31, 2011 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

this article is much more relevant to what i am propounding here

http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journals/southern_cultures/v010/10.3doyle.html

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on May 31, 2011 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

A comment on tpeezy2 on twitter

I can’t be the only person who feels this way, so here goes…

I read voraciously, yet I am wholly unable to decipher Pryor’s twattings, or whatever the fuck they’re called. Am I that far-removed from Brooklyn, or is there a new language being spoken with primordial grunts standing in for what was once enunciated? OSU fans shouldn’t be as angry with Pryor for toppling the program as they should be for his merciless butchering of the English language.

…or am I alone in my disdain for the unbridled idiocy twitter has exposed?

Charles Martel, Charlemagne, William the Conqueror, Raymond IV the Count of Toulouse, Godfrey of Bouillon, Baldwin of Boulogne, Henry II, Richard the Lionheart, St. Joan of Arc and Napoleon Bonaparte -- all of good stock.

by TiderUpNorth on May 31, 2011 9:50 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

You are alone in your disdain ;-)

At the end of the day most fans care about the “W.”

Do you not remember the half-time player interview during the ‘92 Sugar Bowl? I forget who it was, but a BAMA player was interviewed and when it was over, you couldn’t understand a single word he said. It was like he was speaking a different language.

Props to Saban as he recruits more academic minded students who have a better grasp of the English language.

As for Twitter: just think what that one site has cost universities everywhere re: compliance monitoring. Nightmare.

Talent can only get you so far. Give me a player who has less talent, but the heart of a champion and the will to succeed.

by Bamapride on Jun 1, 2011 7:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not to defend all things Alabama,

but the guy you’re talking about was Michael Rogers, a starting linebacker who was hurt in a car accident a day or two before the Sugar Bowl. He wasn’t playing, which is why he was being interviewed during the game. From what I remember, he had been concussed in the wreck and was on some pretty strong medication when that interview was done, which was why he sounded like he did.

At least that’s what I understood at the time.

by Nick's Hat Band on Jun 1, 2011 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Then I want some of that medication...

From a verbal articulation perspective, the dude was having an out of body experience and speaking in tongues.

Talent can only get you so far. Give me a player who has less talent, but the heart of a champion and the will to succeed.

by Bamapride on Jun 1, 2011 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

I remember that and several other rather rough interviews.

Poor Rogers though, I did not know about his concussion. I just can’t help but feel embarrassed for some of these guys when they open their mouths and it sounds like a recods being played backwards: Thibodaux, LA oil change-extraordinaire, I’m looking at YOU.

Charles Martel, Charlemagne, William the Conqueror, Raymond IV the Count of Toulouse, Godfrey of Bouillon, Baldwin of Boulogne, Henry II, Richard the Lionheart, St. Joan of Arc and Napoleon Bonaparte -- all of good stock.

by TiderUpNorth on Jun 1, 2011 5:28 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Hmmm.

I’ll have to give some thought on this one. So you’re claiming TV mind wipe?

Talent can only get you so far. Give me a player who has less talent, but the heart of a champion and the will to succeed.

by Bamapride on Jun 2, 2011 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep...

the barn uses it all the time… how do you think they got so many homer fans? It’s not because of performance on the field! ;-)

by RollTideYall on Jun 3, 2011 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think I heard him say

Paul is dead!

How much longer till kickoff?

by CarrotTop4 on Jun 7, 2011 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Props to Saban as he recruits more academic minded students who have a better grasp of the English language.

I think maybe there’s some truth to that, but Saban is also out there recruiting kids who are borderline on qualifying. I think another significant factor is that Saban goes to a lot of effort to coach the players up about the proper way to present themselves to the media.

How much longer till kickoff?

by CarrotTop4 on Jun 7, 2011 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

First off...

the guy calls himself tpeezy2… whatever the hell that means

second, what the bloody hell does Hott Mad track 5 yo, mean?!? (I love twitter, I hate ignorant tweets)

by RollTideYall on Jun 1, 2011 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Uh, clearly Pryor was referencing his favorable attitude towards Beethoven's 5th Symphony

Tell me you knew that! ;]]

Charles Martel, Charlemagne, William the Conqueror, Raymond IV the Count of Toulouse, Godfrey of Bouillon, Baldwin of Boulogne, Henry II, Richard the Lionheart, St. Joan of Arc and Napoleon Bonaparte -- all of good stock.

by TiderUpNorth on Jun 1, 2011 5:31 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

You should add

Twitslator (twitter translator) to your resume… it might come in handy these days! LOL

by RollTideYall on Jun 2, 2011 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

I just can't wait until that shit-cycle claims to have been misquoted in his twattings.

So it was Mendelssohn’s 5th Symphony, then? Ah yes, that does clarify the conundrum. Twas hip and phat, much like the opening to the “Conjunction Junction” track, my uh, brother from another mother. Speaking of whom, “word” to that caregiver whom you call “mother!”

Charles Martel, Charlemagne, William the Conqueror, Raymond IV the Count of Toulouse, Godfrey of Bouillon, Baldwin of Boulogne, Henry II, Richard the Lionheart, St. Joan of Arc and Napoleon Bonaparte -- all of good stock.

by TiderUpNorth on Jun 2, 2011 8:38 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

GREAT ARTICLE!

This was a really good read.

I’ll stick my neck out there as I have before in response to an early post in this thread by Heffalump: I do think the majority of the big time schools commit infractions on a regualr basis. The level of these infractions and how they do it may vary, but they occur.

Now the sticking point is to what degree does the institution invest in compliance and how far does their regulation/oversight extend? That would be a good one to research.

One of the things I like about Saban since his arrival is his attention to detail: working WITH the president, putting an emphasis on compliance, etc. This reduces the risk, but the risk is still there. From what I have seen it’s more how your respond once the infractions incur that matters.

In the context of OSU, the blindly followed Tressel and they will get the hammer for it. Tressel seemed to have a knack of portraying himself in one way while encouraging/enabling shady dealings behind the scenes.

Again, this won’t stop. It will go in cycles. To me it’s kind of like traffic laws: We know what the speed limit is and how we should come to complete stops at the stop sign yet we break those laws everyday. Players, coaches and fans know the rules for the most part yet they are broken everyday.

As long as the payouts stay high and the pressure of winning remains constant, this will always occur. Just make your choice as to turn a blind eye to it or not. Most would rather not think about it or maintain plausible deniability. I just try to enjoy the game and let the other stuff sort itself out.

While we’re at it, let’s dream about the NCAA using case precedence in making future rulings on those programs breaking rules.

Talent can only get you so far. Give me a player who has less talent, but the heart of a champion and the will to succeed.

by Bamapride on Jun 1, 2011 7:34 AM CDT reply actions  

That's a great angle, Kleph.

Thank you for something other than a Tressel bashing.

"All I wanna do is drive around in my truck and drink Jack Daniels... and they just don't understand."- Kenny Stabler

by UtahBammer on Jun 1, 2011 7:41 AM CDT reply actions  

Once again, comedic genius.
That’s a great angle, Kleph.

Three, actually.

Thirteen.

by Darth Saban on Jun 2, 2011 1:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree, there's a constant tension between staying in the rules and giving up a competitve advantage.

This tension exists everywhere else in the world, but I’d say it’s worse on college football coaches. Most people with regular jobs know when they are crossing a line. In amateur sports, you can commit a violation and not even know it. You have do extra just to be sure you’re doing what you’re supposed to do.

by Nick's Hat Band on Jun 1, 2011 8:52 AM CDT reply actions  

A couple of points/questions/etc

Your premise is that the coach is setting the position of the X. However, it’s not nearly that sanitary, as boosters, administrators, assistants, current and former players, etc have all been found to be “setting the X” further to the right independent of the head coach.

Also, at what point is the level of regulation so complicated, the rules so numerous, and their adjudication so varied that the X starts moving to the right in relation to the axes, not because of any change in intent, but just because in natural operation, there’s no chance that even the most conscientious boy scout can stay up against the left axis? Related; how often do we see a “secondary violation” report where the ones involved are essentially saying “oops, didn’t mean to, sorry”, but every reasonable observer knows that it was intentional (looking at you Lame Kitten)?

I know this isn’t meant to be a doctoral thesis* and you’re just getting this out to be yakked about, so that’s my yakking.

*but it’s a damn sight closer to it than anything printed in any of the “paid” sports rags, so kudos.

by Oz82 on Jun 1, 2011 9:00 AM CDT reply actions  

well, i think my assumption about the coach "setting the X" is reasonable

since he’s the one accountable for the team’s production when all is said and done. the pressures of boosters, assistants etc etc are what he has to contend with to accomplish that task. a wise coach will pick and choose the environment he’ll be working in and how much leeway he’ll have to dictate the tone of the program.

the second point is why i’m calling the X axis the probability of infractions. the fact is the rules are so numerous already and their adjudication so arcane, that you’ve got to push them in order to achieve a meaningful amount of success. it’s not simply a case of turning everything over to compliance and getting a yes/no response. you’ve got to take their advice into account and then decide how to proceed in a way that is best for the program.

secondary violations are a nice example. are they breaking the rules? of course. but coaches are willing to incur them up to a point since they know the probability of incurring punishment for them is limited in terms of the advantage they might give on the recruiting trail. does that mean all coaches are cheaters? well, depends on how sanctimonious you want to be.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on Jun 1, 2011 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Good point but there are degrees of control by the coach

Of course control is a relative illusion, but there are actions and reactions which can act as regulators. Regarding the coaching position you could compare and contrast Saban, Tressel and Chizik.

Saban = control freak who gets his way or leaves (already had street cred from prior success and molded the program in his image) – boosters, etc. tread lightly or fear a plausible reality of Saban leaving – end result is much success

Tressel = go with the flow and deny until proven otherwise (see Lane Kiffin). While I don’t believe Tressel to be as extreme in his recruiting tactics as Kiffin, we have had historical baggage with Tressel prior to coming to OSU. Tressel never had control, made blatant compromises to get who he wanted and got what he deserved.

Chizik = “Yes” man from the word go and could be as clueless as we think he is. Only time will tell for this guy.

Talent can only get you so far. Give me a player who has less talent, but the heart of a champion and the will to succeed.

by Bamapride on Jun 1, 2011 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

That is what I'm talking about.

I believe Chizik is in a league of his own. I’m not even sure he is a yes man as much as he is just so clueless that he doesn’t even know what is going on. He probably thinks the attraction to Big Cat Weekend is that everyone wants to be a part of a family.

I think Malzahn knows what is happening and probably Trooper. Their job is to keep Chizik in the dark.

If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.

by 5026 on Jun 1, 2011 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

So comparing Awbarn to the movie "Casino"...

Cheezit is basically Kevin Pollack.
Trooper Taylor is Alan King (and remember, he took two-to-the-head in a diner parking lot, ai-oh!)
And Malzahn is Deniro.

In the end, they fucked it all up. It was last time street guys like them were given anything that fuckin’ important again.

Charles Martel, Charlemagne, William the Conqueror, Raymond IV the Count of Toulouse, Godfrey of Bouillon, Baldwin of Boulogne, Henry II, Richard the Lionheart, St. Joan of Arc and Napoleon Bonaparte -- all of good stock.

by TiderUpNorth on Jun 1, 2011 5:43 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

And to mix movie metaphors...

…CNS is Al Pacino…

…and Houston Nutt is Chunk….

"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban

by NiceLittleSaturday on Jun 1, 2011 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh my gosh...

I laughed so hard when I saw this. Great way to start a morning. Thanks.

Talent can only get you so far. Give me a player who has less talent, but the heart of a champion and the will to succeed.

by Bamapride on Jun 2, 2011 6:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

So Chunk is the goon in sunglasses that takes Tony Montana out?

Ah fockin’ neeew it!

Charles Martel, Charlemagne, William the Conqueror, Raymond IV the Count of Toulouse, Godfrey of Bouillon, Baldwin of Boulogne, Henry II, Richard the Lionheart, St. Joan of Arc and Napoleon Bonaparte -- all of good stock.

by TiderUpNorth on Jun 2, 2011 8:42 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Have you paid your taxes yet?
Also, at what point is the level of regulation so complicated, the rules so numerous, and their adjudication so varied that the X starts moving to the right in relation to the axes, not because of any change in intent, but just because in natural operation, there’s no chance that even the most conscientious boy scout can stay up against the left axis?

Thirteen.

by Darth Saban on Jun 2, 2011 1:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Don't know about you

but if somebody’s swinging axes I’m not moving to the right. I’m getting the hell outta there.

'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban

by J Tadpole on Jun 2, 2011 5:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

I paid taxes

Not sure if it would withstand an audit, but show me someone who thinks theirs can, and I’ll show you a fool.

Good point.

by Oz82 on Jun 2, 2011 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Stupid is as Stupid does,

as that great Bama alum Forest Gump’s momma used to say. Tressel had no harder job than any other coach in America in any other sport. He chose to help his players cheat. He has done some great things in Columbus, inside and outside of football. But that doesn’t make him Ghandi. He has let indiscretion follow him for a long time. Letting his players run-amock has caught up with him. And if he were the moral man that he lead everyone to believe, he wouldn’t let the crap happen.

"In the morning he would read the Bible with another coach, in the afternoon he would cheat kids out of their lawn mowing money. That's Jim Tressel."

by PreachinTotheChoir on Jun 1, 2011 5:35 PM CDT reply actions  

this sentiment is what i'm very much against

pretending it’s a simple he cheats/he doesn’t is what gets programs in trouble to begin with. situations like occurred to tressel don’t happen because a coach gets up early one morning and says “i’m gonna try and pull one over on the ncaa.” instead it’s a slow process of degrees accompanied by lapses in oversight, bad individual decisions and unwitting compromises along the way. the way to avoid the peril is to be aware it exists and constantly watchful of missteps each and every step of the way. that’s a huge burden and not every coach and program are up to it.

more simply, i could care less about jim tressel, i’m more interested in what lessons we can learn from what happened to him. if you want to spend your time damning him, go for it. but it doesn’t do the program you care about any good at all.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on Jun 1, 2011 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Your sentiment taps pretty well into Coach Saban's at the SEC Conference today.

“Mistakes” leading to “consequences.” He definitely gets the importance of learning from someone else’s mistakes.

Charles Martel, Charlemagne, William the Conqueror, Raymond IV the Count of Toulouse, Godfrey of Bouillon, Baldwin of Boulogne, Henry II, Richard the Lionheart, St. Joan of Arc and Napoleon Bonaparte -- all of good stock.

by TiderUpNorth on Jun 1, 2011 10:21 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

that's part of it

another important part is an ongoing committee within the program that reviews policies and performance at every level of operations to determine what’s working, what ain’t and what needs to change.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on Jun 2, 2011 8:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Actually...

I think he’s a Michigan man, so having Tressel gone does benefit him – the damning him part is spot on.

Talent can only get you so far. Give me a player who has less talent, but the heart of a champion and the will to succeed.

by Bamapride on Jun 2, 2011 6:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

kleph, I'll Give you the Nod on One point

There are lessons to be learned from Tressel, OSU, Smith, & Gee and Co.

But I think the obvious lesson is lost on you if you want to massage, spin, twist and rotate on a spit this fiasco into something that turns the perpetrators into victims and “the system” into the perp. If that’s not your idea, then my apologies.

The system is broken only to the extent that players who really could use a stipend to help them with college life expenses can’t legally have them, unless I’m mistaken on that. A guy can’t afford to take his girl to a decent restaurant, or get a decent suit (unless they are provided by the school, are they? I’m seriously asking). And not an ink suit. There are things college student need and some of the players come from seriously poor families. If there is a standard for all student athletes that allows a stipend, crap like what was going on in Columbus wouldn’t leave any questions about money problems for players and would be identified as a problem. But poor college athletes are not the issue that Tressel tried to cover up. They (apparently many ‘theys") were trading school supplied materials for tattoos. That’s hardly a college necessity, unless your hung up on some macho kick. And before all you painted people get uptight, tattoos are fine if for the right reason, but they are like children, you have no business getting one unless you are mature enough & can afford it on your own.

Analyse the issue to death if you want. Discus it until you are Crimson in the face. But the big lesson to be learned from this is that cheaters do get caught. Not all of them, surely. And maybe not the worst ones. But if you cheat, don’t be surprised if you get caught.

Sorry if you think I’m all about Tressel Trashing. And I accept that we all have a hypocritical streak from time to time. But hypocrisy is a pet peeve of mine. Actually it’s even more than that. Whether it’s a minister who argues vehemently against promiscuity and ends up in the sack with a prostitute or a millionaire liberal who tells me I should be paying more taxes, I will say something about them. And it probably won’t be flattering.

I have thought about how the Columbus Calamity relates to team(s) I care about. And my conclusion is that if Coach Saban, or Miles, or JoPa himself or any coach in any sport any where did what Tressel did, show him the door, for he has lost all honor.

"In the morning he would read the Bible with another coach, in the afternoon he would cheat kids out of their lawn mowing money. That's Jim Tressel."

by PreachinTotheChoir on Jun 2, 2011 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

that's not my idea nor is any of your conjecture relevant to my post

apology accepted.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on Jun 2, 2011 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

I Hate Not being Relevant :)

I’m not trying to be obstinate or obtuse. I reread your post twice and I am just not sure exactly what the point is since I have apparently missed the point with everything I wrote. I think something is coming through to me and maybe this is it. See if I caught the drift of your post. Because of the nature of college football (emphasis on winning etc.), and because of the direct correlation of talent to wins, and wins to infractions, ergo, a direct correlation of talent to infractions (a = b, b = c, ergo a = c), the conundrum comes in for the coach as to how far do you take to recruiting superstars to push up the wins because of the possibilty of increasing infractions. And the shift in the line upwards through new schemes & inventive play calling changes the correlation of talent to wins without raising the odds of infractions (a+1 = b+1, b+1 > c, ergo, a+1 > c)?

"In the morning he would read the Bible with another coach, in the afternoon he would cheat kids out of their lawn mowing money. That's Jim Tressel."

by PreachinTotheChoir on Jun 2, 2011 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

that's a bit more like it

mostly since there’s a marked scarcity of comments along the lines of “turning the perpetrator into the victim” or “losing honor” or “cheaters not getting caught” in that take. the situation with tressel is just the jumping off point for the discussion. if you think i’m making an ethical argument one way or the other about this case or any other you are missing the point.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on Jun 2, 2011 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

By jove, I think I've got it.

Am I Eliza Doolittle, Professor Higgins?
Good Post whether or not I argued about it.

"In the morning he would read the Bible with another coach, in the afternoon he would cheat kids out of their lawn mowing money. That's Jim Tressel."

by PreachinTotheChoir on Jun 2, 2011 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I guess...

…kleph won’t get to discus him until he’s crimson in the face now….

"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban

by NiceLittleSaturday on Jun 2, 2011 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Give me Several Days

And several wacks to the helmet and I can understand anything—except women. I’ll never understand that. And, no, kleph doesn’t need to get the graphs out for that. Thanks anyway.

Stewie is cool—and I have no idea how to spell it if that’s wrong.

And BTW, when I signed up to post on this blog, no one told me we’d be graded on our spelling. This is a ‘Bama blog, for crying out Pete’s sake!

And kleph can discus it with me until he’s crimson in the face if he wants to, but only if he lets me be relevant.

"In the morning he would read the Bible with another coach, in the afternoon he would cheat kids out of their lawn mowing money. That's Jim Tressel."

by PreachinTotheChoir on Jun 3, 2011 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not to mention...

…Forrest. Gandhi. run amok. led.

"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban

by NiceLittleSaturday on Jun 1, 2011 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

leads?

'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban

by J Tadpole on Jun 2, 2011 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

No leads?

Everyone leaves microbes and
whatnot. Hell, that’s your forte, ain’t it?
Trackin’ down microbes left by
criminals and commies and shit.
That’s your whole raison d’etre, ain’t it?
No leads? l want Nathan Junior back!
Or whichever the hell one of ‘em they took!
He’s out there somewhere.
Somethin’ leads to him!
Anyone can find him knows the difference
between a lead and a hole in the ground!

"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban

by NiceLittleSaturday on Jun 3, 2011 8:16 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Classic movie.

'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban

by J Tadpole on Jun 3, 2011 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

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