Will Lyles: Recruiting Whistleblower
by outsidethesidelines on Jul 1, 2011 6:03 PM CDT
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PrintIs this another case of Yahoo! Sports doing what the NCAA is supposed to be doing? Perhaps, but either way Will Lyles has gone on the record at length with Charles Robinson and Dan Wetzel of Yahoo! Sports, detailing at length his relationship with Oregon and Chip Kelly. By all means go and read the entire piece, which is very lengthy, but for now just a few money quotes:
Embattled scouting service owner Will Lyles told Yahoo! Sports that University of Oregon coach Chip Kelly personally approved a controversial $25,000 fee that sparked an ongoing NCAA investigation and was in constant contact as Lyles provided the Ducks with recruiting assistance that may have violated NCAA rules.
In a wide-ranging, multi-day interview, Lyles said Kelly “scrambled” in late February and asked Lyles to submit retroactive player profiles to justify the $25,000 payment to his company, just days before the transaction was revealed in a March 3 Yahoo! Sports report.
Lyles insists Oregon did not make a direct request or payment to steer recruits to Eugene. However, he now says Oregon did not pay him for his work as a traditional scout, but for his influence with top recruits and their families and his ability to usher prospects through the signing and eligibility process. That dual role as mentor to prospects and paid contractor to Oregon is believed to be a focus of the NCAA probe.
The mood began to change on Feb. 17 when Lyles said Kelly and assistant coach Gibson called him and expressed concern about the lack of printed scouting material he had provided to the school. Lyles said they requested printed reports on Class of 2011 prep prospects, ones that had already signed letters of intent, as soon as possible. Lyles’ phone records show a 12-minute call from Kelly and an eight-minute call from Gibson that day.
“It was like, ‘Hey Will, we need to get some player evaluations and send it as soon as you can,’” Lyles said. “I didn’t really know why, but they were like, ‘Get everything you have and turn it in.’ They were on my ass about it.
Give credit to Lyles, I suppose, for fessing up. He sat down for a five-hour interview with a major media publication, welcomed any follow-up questions, and provided a forest's worth of documents -- letters, e-mails, phone records, business files, etc. -- all to substantiate his claims. For all of the countless number of people involved in recruiting scandals in the years gone by, I cannot recall off-hand anyone who was this open to the media in the immediate aftermath of
Having said that, though, he still doesn't strike me as very genuine. Did Lyles legitimately believe Oregon was ever interested in his evaluation abilities, much less interested to the point that they effectively handed him a blank check? That's a hard proposition to accept, and I imagine, despite what he contends now, he most likely knew the source of their interest all along. And, admittedly, it's much easier for Lyles to speak openly now and play the victim destroyed. With his business and career already destroyed, and his access being denied to programs and players, he really has nothing else to lose and no one left to protect. At the very best, Lyles was an extremely gullible character who never even remotely grasped the environment he was working in.
For Oregon, though, this is just plain damn ugly, and it's easy to see why they recently secured the services of a high-end boutique law firm that specializes in NCAA enforcement issues. It's almost impossible to read any of this and legitimately believe Oregon AD Rob Mullen's contentions that they are doing everything the right way. If it looks like thinly-veiled pay-for-play and smells like thinly-veiled pay-for-play, well... you know how this ends. How can you legitimately defend handwritten letters and e-mails from key institutional figures? It's possible, to be sure, but exceedingly difficult.
And for Chip Kelly, this one may not make him Jim Tressel just yet, but to use the Mercury Morris analogy he's at least getting close to his neighborhood. Regardless of which specific rules may or may not have been broken, not only did Kelly actively engage, use, and pay a large sum of money to a known middleman who manipulated the recruitment of prep prospects in order to steer recruits to Oregon, he conspired with said individual after the fact in what was by all accounts a lame cover-up once it become apparent that this story was going to be released publicly. Good luck defending against that, Chip.
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please tell me, mr. seastrunk
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
by kleph on Jul 1, 2011 6:08 PM CDT reply actions 5 recs
Poetic justice
Seastruck must have been miffed Saban did not want anything to do with him or Miles!
by ApothecaryMark on Jul 2, 2011 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
OTS
From the article, I took it that yahoo was implying that not only was Kelly directly involved with this, but also the compliance department itself was directly involved as well. Thats a big time issue, and frankly I don’t think we have ever seen anything like this. Is that the impression every one else walked away with?
So, so screwed.
Oregon and the Boogs…in Texas…at a previously unrecruited H.S….with no connections other than Lyles.
This is going to end so, so shitty.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not; a sense of humor to console him for what he is." -Sir Francis Bacon
by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 1, 2011 6:17 PM CDT reply actions
oregon fans
are in full denial mode. it’s almost endearing how naive they are at this point when they still actually believe there is a hope in hell the storm will pass them by.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
I read that today...
thought to myself that they are far more delusional than UNC or Auburn combined.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not; a sense of humor to console him for what he is." -Sir Francis Bacon
by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 2, 2011 1:35 AM CDT up reply actions
i don't know
at this point i think it’s just the phase each fanbase has to go through.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
honestly, while i still get as nervous as the next guy now and then
i’ve got a lot more confidence than just about any point in the past two decades. the reason is the compliance office. i look at every one of these scandals – usc, unc, osu and now oregon – and the one constant is that the compliance departments were 1) completely incompetent 2) a complete sham or 3) virtually nonexistent.
meanwhile, i look at how he ua compliance department handled the textbook debacle and the situation with marcell last year and i see two things. a group busting their ass to make sure this kind of stuff doesn’t happen at the capstone and addresses it immediately and thoroughly when it does as well as an athletic department committed to letting them do their job.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
Wait! A scandal at Oregon? Uh, I hate to break it to you heathen, but Nike provides dozens of different uniforms for Oregon.
That makes them TOTALLY untouchable, right?
Alright, then I’ll break-out the “trump card:” ducks are cute. People at the park feeeed ducks! They don’t slap ’em with NCAA probation!
Charles Martel, Charlemagne, William the Conqueror, Raymond IV the Count of Toulouse, Godfrey of Bouillon, Baldwin of Boulogne, Henry II, Richard the Lionheart, St. Joan of Arc and Napoleon Bonaparte -- all of good stock.
Well, I feed the ducks. Ducks are good people.
They pay their taxes and perform some of the most mundane tasks in American society such as accountant, tax fixer, nut tightener, bulb screwer, disc spinner, bus driver, fuck-offer. The list goes on! Respek!
Charles Martel, Charlemagne, William the Conqueror, Raymond IV the Count of Toulouse, Godfrey of Bouillon, Baldwin of Boulogne, Henry II, Richard the Lionheart, St. Joan of Arc and Napoleon Bonaparte -- all of good stock.
Count me as nervous too...
Especially if it’s seemingly innocuous stuff that later is revealed to be the tip of an iceberg of sleaze (e.g., Dareus and the Carolina Convicts).
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not; a sense of humor to console him for what he is." -Sir Francis Bacon
by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 2, 2011 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions
exactly.
see ots’ post about secondary infractions on the main page if you need reason for concern. as good as ua compliance is, you are fighting a schizophrenic organization that just loves bureaucratic bullshit.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
Some seem to be seeing the sunnier side of things.
Sadly, the Duck fans start losing me when they begin citing members of their program and community — haven’t the faintest clue who any of those people are.
Charles Martel, Charlemagne, William the Conqueror, Raymond IV the Count of Toulouse, Godfrey of Bouillon, Baldwin of Boulogne, Henry II, Richard the Lionheart, St. Joan of Arc and Napoleon Bonaparte -- all of good stock.
by TiderUpNorth on Jul 2, 2011 6:54 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
"Whistleblower" suggests he came clean
He got caught, and is trying to cover his own behind. Big difference.
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Jul 1, 2011 8:23 PM CDT reply actions
not to the ncaa, it isn't
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
One of my favorite parts...
Lyles’ ability to serve as more than a scout or tour guide became evident in December 2007 when he grew concerned about whether James would pass the math portion of the Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills test (TAKS) – a requirement for graduation.
He suggested to James and Tasha Galloway that James transfer for his final semester across the nearby state line to Texarkana (Ark.) Arkansas High School. The TAKS problem would thus be eliminated. Galloway handled the procedure. James transferred a few miles over the border and was eligible after signing with Oregon in February 2008.
Last season, James rushed for 1,731 yards, scored 24 touchdowns and finished third in voting for the Heisman Trophy. He was also named to the Pac-10 All-Academic team.
So wait… this kid who couldn’t pass the exit exam to graduate from a high scool in Texas is on the Pac-10 All-Academic team? Good on the kid if he’s improved his academic performance that much. I guess he’s not taking many math classes.
Asked in a Thursday evening media availability to name his favorite class, James answered: “I’d say ASL, American Sign Language.”
James, who said he has an overall B grade-point average, is motivated by the challenge of learning sign language.
“It really is a challenge for me to have to pay attention,” he said. “Because I really am good at everything else. I like the challenge.”
The class isn’t coming easily.
“You just have to push yourself sometimes,” he said. “Sometimes I don’t want to come to practice. But you have to push yourself through those tough times and see what you’re made of. I don’t want to ever say I can’t do something.”
Asked why he didn’t challenge himself with something like, say, calculus. James said: “I’m not a math guy. If I was much of a math guy, I would be focusing on stats and all the hoo-rah going on about the offense.”
http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindducksbeat/2010/10/oregon_ducks_rundown_on_heisma.html
Thirteen.
I thought the same thing
He must be getting some great tutoring up there!
by ApothecaryMark on Jul 2, 2011 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
In defense
It is completely possible to do well in school even if you can’t pass the math portion. For example I would not consider myself dumb, but I could barely pass math. When I took my GRE (long time ago) I was in the 99th percentile in the logic, but only the 22nd in math. My grades were great in school if you didn’t look at those pesky math grades.
Agreed.
It just caught me by surprise that he had to cross State lines to graduate high school, but then is on the Pac-10 All-Academic team. My congratulations for improving his academic performance, and my comment about him maybe not taking math, were not meant to be as snarky as they sounded.
Wouldn’t shock me if there’s shenanigans, but maybe he just buckled down with subjects in which he was stronger.
Thirteen.
oregon fans
break out the bylaws and go full lawya. it’s times like this i miss having holiday around.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
question for the commentariat
the general consensus seems to be that given the information that came to light in this story, the ncaa is likely to classify lyles as a booster. dawg sports takes that position and this columnist being lauded by a lot folks for his analysis does as well.
if that is, in fact, the case, then this is pretty much albert means redux. correct?
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
That was the first thing I thought
The two cases seem to match up pretty tightly, except Oregon’s Athletic Dept. and Head Coach are directly implicated instead of it being a “Rogue Booster” as in our case.
Isn’t this the same thing that got SMU the death penalty?
"A man's character may be learned from the adjectives which he habitually uses in conversation." - Mark Twain
by Stu from Tuscaloosa on Jul 2, 2011 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
no. smu was directly paying players
there is no evidence seastrunk (or means, for that matter) ever received a dime.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
Didn't it come out later that Means did get money? Or his mom did?
(insert Cecil joke here)
How much longer till kickoff?
I would submit
that in my eyes, this is as bad as it gets. Kelly knowingly violated NCAA rules and then when questioned tried to cover it up. Ok, thats bad, but it gets worse, because the compliance director not only was aware of it but was trying to help him. Ok, all that sounds bad, but wait, its worse, its all been documented. Oregon is crazy not to fire Kelly and the entire compliance department at once.
key distinction in that assessment
oregon might have asked for that recruiting report from lyles to have something to show for their $25K but that’s not covering up precisely. and what we don’t know – and what really matters – is what they told the ncaa. if they said it was legitimate and pounded the manila folder with authority, they got in the boat with jim tressel. but maybe the came completely clean. who can say?
but that’s just one point in your scenario. with all the rest of it… they’re boned.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
Yeah, to view it in the light most favorable to Oregon...
isn’t it still possible that Lyles was providing telephonic or other verbal scouting information, and the request for the documents (even on the kid now dead) was simply a request for Lyles to provide written records of the verbal information he had already provided.
Note that I don’t necessarily believe this, but I don’t think the above version of events is technically impossible in light of the information that has been revealed to date.
Thirteen.
Albert Means II, perhaps even worse...
Though it involves a smaller amount of money, the basic framework for the Means saga is present here with Lyles, i.e. payment of money to a middleman to influence the decision of a recruit. You don’t pay a player directly — or at least you don’t get caught doing that, anyway. Instead, you pay a middleman to steer a player to your school.
And in fact, this is arguably much worse. Albert Means involved the much-ballyhooed “rogue booster” — Logan Young — with no accused involvement or knowledge by anyone on the payroll at UA, whether it be the coaching staff or the athletic department as a whole (though there was an unspoken inference there with Ronnie Cottrell and Ivy Williams). Here, though, not only do you have the head coach condoning all of this, you have the head coach expressly authorizing both the payment itself and the amount of the payment. Can you imagine the fallout had Dubose done such a thing with Albert Means?
"Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." -- Milton Friedman
by outsidethesidelines on Jul 2, 2011 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions
yes. and let's just say
there would have been a 30 for 30 documentary about it.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
I think we could have amended the "staring down the barrel of a gun".
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not; a sense of humor to console him for what he is." -Sir Francis Bacon
by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 2, 2011 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions
everyone ready for the next terrifying thought?
all this discussion is about these recruit representatives who purport to be handling the interest of these high school players. they range from the somewhat clueless lyles to the machavellian glory of brian butler and the god-only-knows-what of otis yelverton. they operate in that hazy area outside of the ncaa’s perview and this case clearly shows the association is ready to do something about it. it looks like oregon is going to be the very messy precedent for the rest of the sport.
now let’s step back a year. remember who the nefarious evildoers were then? agents and their runners. these “pimps” acting outside of the purview of the ncaa regulations as well as the nfl and nflpa oversight. the almighty smackdown on usc and the one that portends for unc demonstrate what the ncaa thinks of these guys.
so what’s the next step? how about someone playing both these roles? because when it comes to players showing enough raw talent to go to the pros while in high school, you know the line of opportunists is going to start early. the amount of money potentially at stake is far to great for it to be otherwise. is it that outlandish to imagine an agent runner taking on the role of a recruit representative?
now exactly how toxic do you think a person like that would be when it all comes to light? we saw during the means case, you don’t have know about what happened to be held accountable if it’s bad enough. and just having this person’s phone number on your cell phone might be enough to initiate the core breach in your football program.
so when you ponder what the heck yahoo! sports’ promised level-10 story is going to be next month, consider that and try to sleep soundly. i don’t.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
Yahoo will be sinking ships with a follow-up story next month?
I must have missed that part. I agree with anyone who feels the suspense of the atmosphere created by the USC, UNC and Auburn-Louisiana investigations and rumors.
I sincerely hope EVERYONE on Alabama’s staff (ALL representatives) has stayed clear of the shady player reps of Lyles’ ilk. Whatever Yahoo’s writers uncover, it is nice to see someone is forcing the NCAA to conduct their enforcement duties. Anyone else notice the portion of Lyles’ interview in which he alluded to the fact that the NCAA steered away from certain incriminating questions that Yahoo reporters had the guts to ask?
Charles Martel, Charlemagne, William the Conqueror, Raymond IV the Count of Toulouse, Godfrey of Bouillon, Baldwin of Boulogne, Henry II, Richard the Lionheart, St. Joan of Arc and Napoleon Bonaparte -- all of good stock.
by TiderUpNorth on Jul 2, 2011 6:51 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Yep
when they broke the Ohio State story, they called it an 8. They indicated there would be a story breaking in August thats a 10. When I consider how bad the OSU situation is and they only called it 8, I can’t begin to imagine what a level 10 story is going to be.
well, he said he wasn't asked specific things
that he told the reporter. which, to be fair, is exactly what any decent attorney would have advised. that said, willy got a call from indianapolis yesterday afternoon.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
I know what the 10 is...
In fact, I am addressing it now, in one of my typical tour de force of analytical ninja-ness.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not; a sense of humor to console him for what he is." -Sir Francis Bacon
by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 2, 2011 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Interesting. Now that Yahoo has completely uncorked the story, NOW the NCAA wants a follow-up interview. Gee, dumn luck, that!
I don’t care what their standard operating procedure is, the NCAA not only looks morbidly inept, but clumsy and intentionally deaf to boot. I have seen how internal investigations can be steered in one direction in my job. And it is intentional — you simply maintain your investigative focus on a certain facet of the issue being investigated and from there, make it look like a thorough inquiry has been made.
NCAA, you are amateurs.
Okay, Stuck in the Planes, give us a hint. Is the “Yahoo-10” going to take place in “CHUD Country” aka: “Land of the Booger Consumers?”
Charles Martel, Charlemagne, William the Conqueror, Raymond IV the Count of Toulouse, Godfrey of Bouillon, Baldwin of Boulogne, Henry II, Richard the Lionheart, St. Joan of Arc and Napoleon Bonaparte -- all of good stock.
secondary violations
they are all over making sure schools get their just desserts over secondary violations.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
I'll worry about our 44 (now 42) infractions, 14 in football
over two years, when the NCAA does something about serial secondary offender, Mark Richt, and their 1/2 dozen during the season of ’10 alone.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not; a sense of humor to console him for what he is." -Sir Francis Bacon
by Stuck in the Plains on Jul 3, 2011 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions
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