SEC Expansion | The case for UNC & Duke
First, I voted for Florida State as my preferred 14th SEC team in Nico's poll. I would really like to see them in the SEC for several reasons. That seems to be pretty non-controversial, based on the (early) poll results there, so I won't spend any time defending that choice.
However, as I've stated before, if there is eventually going to be a 15th and 16th team, I vote for North Carolina and Duke. This opinion will be much more controversial, but here's why I'd like to see it and why it deserves more consideration than people think.
Bama's path to the national championship
People keep talking about only adding the best football programs. That seems to be everyone's starting point, and I think it is the wrong starting point, from a Bama fan perspective. The SEC is already the strongest conference in college football. There is no debating it anymore and everyone across the country, however much they hate to admit, will indeed admit at this point that it is clearly the strongest. Whatever advantages there are to be gained from your conference being perceived as the strongest, we already enjoy those advantages and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future so long as the SEC remains at its current strength.
Trying to make the conference even stronger at this point is pure overkill, and it will only decrease the likelihood that Bama gets to compete for national championships. Presumably--even under a 4-team playoff system, which may be coming in the intermediate future--only one team from the SEC will get to compete for the national title each year. We should want to increase the likelihood that that one team is us, and packing the conference with the best teams around is in direct opposition to this goal.
Sorry, but my biggest goal for Bama football is winning national championships, and I just don't see how making the SEC even more of a buzzsaw than it already is helps us in that regard. You may say, "well, to be the best you gotta beat the best". I hear that, but really it's all about finding a way to get to that championship game, and the easier that path is, the better chance you have. Take Ohio State for example. They've gotten invites to the BCS championship game 3 times in the last decade. I firmly believe they weren't one of the top 2 or probably even 5 teams any of those years. Sure, they got shown up 2 times against better teams (06 and 07), but guess what, if you're given enough chances, probability dictates you're going to succeed eventually and that's exactly what they did in 02 by beating a superior Miami team in a controversial overtime finish.
I personally like the SEC at its current strength level. Why not try to keep it at the same level? Florida State as a program, looking ahead for the foreseeable future, is in a position to compete with the elite of the elite, Bama, LSU, Florida, you name it. Don't let the malaise of the program the last 4-5 years of Bowden's painfully slow and delayed departure fool you. They're in position to be a force and can/should be up there with the truly elite programs.
Next, take Texas A&M. We know all about them. Tradition, resources, etc. At worst they should be able to compete in the top half of the conference along with the likes of Auburn, Arkansas, Georgia, etc. Here's where the issue comes up, though. Do you really want to add even more teams at this level or better? If so, why?
I propose adding a program that is on the level of your next tier of programs in the current SEC. North Carolina can be that program. There is absolutely no reason, given its location (massive and fast-growing state with few competitors) and resources, that North Carolina can't be at least as strong as programs like South Carolina, Tennessee, Mississippi State, etc for the foreseeable future.
Then you have Duke. I'm not here to make any case for Duke football. Quite the contrary. I will concede they would be a yearly bottom feeder. But that is precisely the point. If you're going to add three programs like the ones listed above, and you want to keep the conference at the current strength level, you need to add another Vanderbilt/Kentucky/Ole Miss to even things out. Duke will be more Vanderbilt, less Ole Miss or Kentucky, but still, they bring a lot to the table in other areas. Which brings up the next point.
Bringing in the $$$
All of the talk about adding TV viewers and expanding the market and whatnot, and people completely ignore that one of the South's largest and fastest-growing states is completely devoid of SEC schools. North Carolina's 9.5 million people rank it alongside Georgia's 9.5 million as the two largest states in the South outside of Florida. By comparison, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, South Carolina and Arkansas all have less than half their population, and aren't growing nearly as fast. Of the top 50 cities in the country by metro population, Raleigh is the fastest growing according to the 2010 census. Charlotte meanwhile is the 33rd largest city, and it is growing faster than any city ahead of it save one (Las Vegas).
I understand the NC markets might already be somewhat SEC-friendly given its geographic proximity, but adding the state's two most prominent schools would lock in the state as solid SEC territory, not a trivial fact given the size and growth rate of the state. The one downside from the $$ perspective is that televising Duke football games (and to a lesser extent UNC football games) won't be a huge draw nationally. That may true, but really, how many Duke games will actually get the prime slots anyway? How many does Vanderbilt get now? And there will still be plenty of huge SEC games to televise even if Duke games end up on the SEC Network. UNC should be able to bring the same national prominence or better than a West Virginia, Louisville or Missouri. Again, UNC has more resources and a better recruiting base than any of those schools, and as part of the SEC, I firmly believe they could/should be competitive.
And speaking of money, can you really have a talk about adding North Carolina and Duke without talking the roundball? UNC-Duke basketball games rake in TV ratings on par with SEC football games. Let that sink in: the SEC would get 2 extra television events each year that get the same ratings as your typical SEC football game on CBS. And that's just when the two schools play each other. Their massive and loyal fanbases would drive up basketball TV revenue for all of the conference, not to mention increase the prestige, level of play and overall TV demand for the entire conference. The big billion-dollar basketball cash cow of course is the NCAA Tournament, in which revenues are not spread out by conference affiliation, but regular season games are, and yearly games featuring Kentucky-Duke, Kentucky-UNC, UNC-Duke, Duke-Arkansas, Bama-UNC, Tennessee-Duke, on and on would bring in not an insignificant amount of $$ to the SEC coffers. Regular season basketball games don't bring in what regular season football games do, but again, it's significant and worth consideration.
Academic prestige
If you laugh at this or think some SEC Presidents won't at least be a little enticed by this, you may be right, but I don't think so. According to the oft-cited U.S. News rankings, Duke is a top 10 university in the U.S., trailing only Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Columbia, Stanford, Penn, Cal Tech and MIT. UNC is the 5th-ranked public university in the nation, trailing only Cal, UCLA, Virginia and Michigan. It is also ranked among the top 30 universities overall. College Presidents know this, and they know the weight and respect these two schools carry academically.
Obviously, academic prestige has nothing to do with athletics, or even the money you make off athletics, but I, for one, believe associating with prestigious schools like Duke and North Carolina would be of great value to the universities in the SEC in the long term. Dr. Witt has mentioned on multiple occasions that he would like for UA to be mentioned alongside the nation's top public universities, specifically at some points if I recall correctly, mentioning UVA and UNC by name.
Like it or not, the SEC has a less than stellar reputation nationally as a group of schools that are too focused on athletics and have a win-at-all costs mentality. We oftentimes don't help ourselves in this regard, but conference expansion could give us an opportunity to send a message and reshape the conference's academic makeup for the better. Doing so could further the University's own stated goals and academic prestige, something that should be important to every UA alum.
Some possible reasons it won't happen
Let's not kid ourselves, at the end of the day, this will all probably come down to the $$. I made a case for why adding UNC and Duke could benefit the SEC in terms of adding markets and viewers. However, I am in no way a media marketing expert. Really, you'd need a media consultant to really analyze things thoroughly in ways that none of us are qualified to do in order to really know which teams would be more advantageous purely from a financial standpoint. It could well be that adding UNC and Duke just doesn't make financial sense compared to schools like Missouri or Virginia Tech. That may be the case, I just don't know, but I stand by my assertion that UNC and Duke would add value--more value than people think--however that might compare to other schools.
There's also the politics of it all. From a political perspective, could UNC actually leave the ACC, and take Duke (a private school) with them, but not take NC State (the other major public school)? And would SEC schools like Tennessee and South Carolina try to oppose such a move for fear of competition in their area? These things I just cannot answer.
Bottom line
At the end of the day, if the SEC is determined to expand to 16 teams (and I'm not saying they are), and the 13th and 14th teams are great football programs that bring a lot to the table in terms of national viewership (like Texas A&M and FSU), then I would like for the 15th and 16th teams to be schools that help in different ways while still keeping the SEC at its current strength level in football.
In conclusion, adding UNC and Duke would help UA in these ways:
- keeping the path to the national championship manageable by keeping the SEC at its current strength in football
- expanding the SEC revenue pie by bringing in one of the largest and fastest growing states in the country and also greatly increasing the value of SEC basketball TV rights
-boosting the academic reputation of the SEC
Even if you disagree about specifically adding North Carolina and Duke, I would encourage everyone to think long and hard about what it is we as fans really want out of additional teams in an expanded SEC. In my opinion, just adding the best football programs we can find wouldn't be the best thing for UA, so at the end of the day what I'm trying to do here is challenge that baseline assumption that people seem to be starting with.
EDIT: note: in this proposed scenario, Duke and UNC would be added to the East, Texas A&M to the West, and Vanderbilt shifted to the West. Vandy shifting would make sense geographically and competitively.
FanPosts are just that; posts created by the fans. They are in no way indicative of the opinions of SBN and the authors of Roll Bama Roll.
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you convinced me....
but I have to be honest, I don’t have much pull.
That Vandy-Duke football rivelry would be EPIC!
by Joe27 on Aug 18, 2011 12:52 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Watch the spelling, man. We've got to impress these ACC snobs if we want them to join.
by Nick's Hat Band on Aug 18, 2011 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey now!!
I’m an FSU fan, not an ACC fan and I’m deffinately not a snob.
He bleeds Garnet and Gold, She bleeds Crimson and White. AND THEY BOTH HATE ORANGE! GO NOLES!! ROLL TIDE!!
by gonolesrolltide on Aug 19, 2011 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Ya'll are big
on spelling though. I had the misfortune of being at the FSU-Bama game when it was played in Jacksonville. Bama lost and all I heard over and over was F-L-O-R-I-D-A -S-T-A-T-E blah blah blah :)
"Some people have a way with words....some people....not have way." - Steve Martin
LOL!!
I can’t imagine a bunch of drunk people spelling worth a damn. At least they didn’t when do to well when I able to go to games more often.
He bleeds Garnet and Gold, She bleeds Crimson and White. AND THEY BOTH HATE ORANGE! GO NOLES!! ROLL TIDE!!
by gonolesrolltide on Aug 19, 2011 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions
That shit's bananas
b-a-n-a-n-a-s
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
LOL!!
When I was able to go to game, we never got farther than F-S-U. We were to drunk for more than that.
He bleeds Garnet and Gold, She bleeds Crimson and White. AND THEY BOTH HATE ORANGE! GO NOLES!! ROLL TIDE!!
by gonolesrolltide on Aug 20, 2011 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions
I will admit though
They were spelling as they came up to the bus stop. Once they recognized I was wearing Bama Crimson and not that FSU red, they apologized. I told them “no worries, you guys won, live it up”.
"Some people have a way with words....some people....not have way." - Steve Martin
The Band
Then why not FLA A&M…..The Band The Band
I've said before...
…that these two schools would be my top choices if we were to expand. Vandy flips to the SECW and becomes the annual interdivisional foe for Duke while Ole Miss gets UNC for theirs. The only downside at all is the relatively long trek between schools, but everything else is pure win. I’m sure Kentucky would love it….
/stillpullingforTulanetocomebacktoo
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Aug 18, 2011 12:59 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
What about Tenn/Vandy?
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Fuck UT...Fuck em hard.
www.DIY-Fitness.com My 100 lb Weightloss Journey.
Follow on twitter @thelyell
It's not that orange you can sit with.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
I hate they quarterbacks...
I hate they coaches…
I’m not a dog person.
There's no way, *no* way that you came from *my* loins. Soon as I get home, first thing I'm gonna do is punch yo mamma in da mouth! - B.T.J.
Relatively long trek between schools?
Compared to adding West Virginia, VT, or Mizzou?
God bless our Dark Lord.
Compared to Oxford, Athens, etc.
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Aug 18, 2011 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Also,
Not so sure Kentucky hoops would love competing with UNC and Duke for conference championships.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Twas sarcasm, homie.
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Aug 18, 2011 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh.
Thought you were suggesting that they’d like adding two mediocre to bad football teams to their division.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Nope.
Not convinced.
Inanity @gothlaw
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not; a sense of humor to console him for what he is." -Sir Francis Bacon
by Stuck in the Plains on Aug 18, 2011 1:02 PM CDT reply actions
i'll be deep in the cold cold ground
before i recognize mizzourah!
In an industrial society which confuses work and productivity, the necessity of producing has always been an enemy of the desire to create. - Raoul Vaneigem
take this job and shove it - Johnny Paycheck
by tempebamafan on Aug 18, 2011 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Prepare for Arizona to freeze buddy.
Inanity @gothlaw
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not; a sense of humor to console him for what he is." -Sir Francis Bacon
by Stuck in the Plains on Aug 18, 2011 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions
109 today
In an industrial society which confuses work and productivity, the necessity of producing has always been an enemy of the desire to create. - Raoul Vaneigem
take this job and shove it - Johnny Paycheck
by tempebamafan on Aug 18, 2011 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Ummm...
What exactly is hanging out of that Blue Devil’s arse?
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
it's the mascots of the two teams
prior to the 1957 game.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
The Duke
Blue Growlers, they were known as. It never caught on.
"Some people have a way with words....some people....not have way." - Steve Martin
And what is he trying to do to that goat?
We already have Auburn for that, mmmmK?
There's no way, *no* way that you came from *my* loins. Soon as I get home, first thing I'm gonna do is punch yo mamma in da mouth! - B.T.J.
It is a weird one,
but this one I saw about a week ago on Crimson and Cream machine is really disturbing to say the least

"Fast Eddie: No bar?
Cashier: No bar, no pinball machines, no bowling alleys, just pool... nothing else. This is Ames, mister."
From the movie--The Hustler
GET TO THE RIM HEAT (and SKY)! ATTACK THE PAINT!
That's not illegal in Oklahoma...
Inanity @gothlaw
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not; a sense of humor to console him for what he is." -Sir Francis Bacon
by Stuck in the Plains on Aug 18, 2011 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Aw-kward
There's no way, *no* way that you came from *my* loins. Soon as I get home, first thing I'm gonna do is punch yo mamma in da mouth! - B.T.J.
LULZ
Inanity @gothlaw
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not; a sense of humor to console him for what he is." -Sir Francis Bacon
by Stuck in the Plains on Aug 18, 2011 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions
its his tail...devils have tails..come on man
www.DIY-Fitness.com My 100 lb Weightloss Journey.
Follow on twitter @thelyell
I think he knew that
"Some people have a way with words....some people....not have way." - Steve Martin
i think that i knew that he knew that
#sarcasm
www.DIY-Fitness.com My 100 lb Weightloss Journey.
Follow on twitter @thelyell
Isn't a devil's tail supposed to be pointy or something?
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Who knows not how
a devil does wear his sting? In his tail.
"Some people have a way with words....some people....not have way." - Steve Martin
In his tongue.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
'Course it's a tail! It has a shroom on the end.
Charles Martel, Charlemagne, William the Conqueror, Raymond IV the Count of Toulouse, Godfrey of Bouillon, Baldwin of Boulogne, Henry II, Richard the Lionheart, St. Joan of Arc and Napoleon Bonaparte -- all of good stock.
by TiderUpNorth on Aug 18, 2011 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Wrong answer.
I was not born with a tail.
Inanity @gothlaw
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not; a sense of humor to console him for what he is." -Sir Francis Bacon
by Stuck in the Plains on Aug 18, 2011 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I think a better question to ask is...
why fuck is he wearing skinny jeans? Not right…
"Snap into a Slim Jim, oh yeah!" - Macho Man Randy Savage
hipster blue devil
wore skinny jeans before they were cool
In an industrial society which confuses work and productivity, the necessity of producing has always been an enemy of the desire to create. - Raoul Vaneigem
take this job and shove it - Johnny Paycheck
by tempebamafan on Aug 18, 2011 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions
i think UNC-Duke to the east is a viable option, especially if we add an A&M/Mizzou type thing to the west.
i think its a great idea that addresses multiple issues with the SEC at its current alignment. We lack depth in three main, iimportant places:
1. Media Markets
Pretty much anyone we add is going to expand our market base, but the SEC needs to add completely different viewers to truely expand its bottom line. Adding new viewers to the north is the best way to do this instead of grabbing teams in a state that already has an SEC team.
2. Academics
SEC is lacking in top flight academic programs. We have a number of schools in the middle of the pack but also a few that are less than steller (mississippi schools, lsu). Adding UNC/DUKE instantly elevates our academic standing as a conference, boosting credibility in often in-tangible ways.
3. Basketball
We are not a good basketball conference. We are very top heavy and have only recently made basketball a high priority as a conference. UNC/DUKE does exactly to basketball what it does to academics. In a media perspective, we are adding tons of new, unique viewers across the entire nation.
I think its a very real and possible option, given the SEC’s unique position in the future of collegiate athletic alignments.
- Rangers finish 85-77 - Josey Wales
- I picture GoET with a reptilian dong anyway - RIver Fenix
Not convinced.
Duke would need to build their stadium to SEC standards before I’d ever step foot in it again.
It’s downright embarrassing.
maybe we could do like the Big East
and only let Duke in for basketball? they should just give up all their other sports anyway cause its not like football or lacross do much for their brand profile…
In an industrial society which confuses work and productivity, the necessity of producing has always been an enemy of the desire to create. - Raoul Vaneigem
take this job and shove it - Johnny Paycheck
by tempebamafan on Aug 18, 2011 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed.
It, like their marching band, is adorable. Because it’s small and slightly pathetic.
(I say this with love, as I have a friend in the Duke University Marching Band (yes, they are the DUMB), and another on the their team.)
Dave Robertson is growing up to be the new Mariano Rivera. My two universes of fandom can finally unite!
by SoGladILeftTheACC on Aug 18, 2011 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions
This was a move I was in favor of last year.
I wanted to add Duke, UNC, UVA, and one other and didnt really care who. For basically all the reasons you suggested. I like UVA as another Ole Miss type in football though. Don’t really want FSU in the conference, it’s tough enough already
by AeroEngUA07 on Aug 18, 2011 1:49 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I like your thinking
Matt, but it ain’t going to happen. Duke does not need the money nor do they care to get slaughtered even worse in FB.
They will both be a part of the “AAC”. That is the 16 team Atlantic Athletic Conference.
Other 16 team conferences will be “PAC”, SAC- Southern Athletic Conference and NAC- Northern Athletic Conf.
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
I don't wanna be in anyone's SAC.
God bless our Dark Lord.
by CarrotTop4 on Aug 18, 2011 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don't be one of those who forgets where they came from.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
by J Tadpole on Aug 18, 2011 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
relevant username
is relevant…
In an industrial society which confuses work and productivity, the necessity of producing has always been an enemy of the desire to create. - Raoul Vaneigem
take this job and shove it - Johnny Paycheck
by tempebamafan on Aug 18, 2011 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Academic prestige
You are right, the presidents DO CARE about this. While it often gets lost on most fans, the football team is just an extension of the university. We only have two AAU schools in the SEC. I have supported UNC and Duke coming in all along. I support UVA as well. In fact UVA and UNC are considered our goal institutions. They are the nearest schools that represent what we want to be academically. But I understand 5026, why would the NC schools join? UNC needs the money to be certain. As a private Duke is different, but my guess is they would want to stay tied to UNC at all costs.
We live in the city of dreams, we drive on the highway of fire, should we awake and find it gone, remember this our favorite town
I'm just kind of wondering if academics would keep Duke from wanting to join.
But other than that, you’ve convinced me, Matt. Let’s sign ’em up!
God bless our Dark Lord.
great argument but
Let’s not kid ourselves – it’s about football.
I think that's Matt's point
SEC football doesn’t need anymore help or credibility. However, basketball and academics do. If the SEC could land Duke and UNC it would provide a tremendous boost to both. I hate to use this cliche, but this is exactly the kind of outside of the box thinking Slive and the SEC need to be doing. I do agree though it would be extremely difficult to land either simply because of the academics.
Quit pining after basketball, you overgrown bastard.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Actually
I’m not a fan of basketball. Played it growing up but never enjoyed it. Overgrown bastard? Sounds like something that a person with a napoleon complex would say.
Just kidding dude.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Actually
I’m not a fan of basketball. Played it growing up but never enjoyed it. Overgrown bastard? Sounds like something that a person with a napoleon complex would say.
Asshole.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." - George Carlin
by Slice of Life on Aug 21, 2011 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions
SLAP.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
LOL
You’re clearly behind on our bored-as-hell-in-the-offseason memes. Trust me when I tell you that you have offended no one and no one has intended to offend you.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Sounds Like a Poophole.
We used to have discussions about NCAA regulations, and alleged violations thereof. Many people would talk about “loopholes,” and then some other members would clarify that the conduct in question was not technically a loophole.
So, we ended up making an acronym “SLAL,” for “Sounds Like a Loophole.” As near as I can tell, other members then came up with the acronym “ANAL,” for “And Now Another Loophole,” or something like that. To which members started posting in response “SLAP,” for “Sounds Like A Poophole.”
At least this is how I think this developed.
Thirteen.
by Darth Saban on Aug 22, 2011 12:45 AM CDT up reply actions
It actually stands for
“Again Not A Loophole.” Other than that you almost have our 6th grade humor down pat.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
That’s awesome. I voice an opinion without calling anyone names and get called an over grown bastard and then an asshole. If I get called something am I not to supposed to respond? How did I offend you?
I can assure you...
that the “overgrown bastard” comment was an attempt to be funny in this UNC/Duke thread, since both are excellent basketball schools, and your username is what it is, so someone might have been making a comedic assumption that you were in favor of their inclusion, at least in part, because your height predisposed you to be a b’ball fan.
The “Asshole” comment was another inside joke, but I don’t understand that one as well. He was not calling you an asshole with the intent to cause offense, although this one is very easily and reasonably misinterpreted. I think that is an inside joke between Slice and J Tadpole, so I can understand that you took offense not being in on the joke. That’s why the “SLAP,” “Sounds Like A Poophole” comment immediately follows Slice posting the “Asshole” comment. (Although I thought it was always J Tadpole who posted the “Asshole.”)
These other guys can speak for themselves, but I can assure with from my prior observations on these boards, that nobody is actually angry with you or trying to offend you, although it certainly looks that way if you’re not in on the inside jokes.
It’s one of those things like if you accidentally post a new comment when you intended to reply, people will call that a jasands. If people start talking about a cactus, that means things are not going Alabama’s way.
Thirteen.
by Darth Saban on Aug 22, 2011 12:51 AM CDT up reply actions
The subculture is a lot like "A Clockwork Orange"
… just substitute the tho’up orange for Crimson… and also substitute the ritual gang beatings for good, old fashioned fuh-baw.
Charles Martel, Charlemagne, William the Conqueror, Raymond IV the Count of Toulouse, Godfrey of Bouillon, Baldwin of Boulogne, Henry II, Richard the Lionheart, St. Joan of Arc and Napoleon Bonaparte -- all of good stock.
by TiderUpNorth on Aug 22, 2011 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
As much as I would like to see UNC in the SEC over FSU or VaTech, the NCAA is gonna bring the hammer down on the football program by this time next year.
"I want winners!"--Mike Singletary, 2008
by Black ice in Alabama on Aug 18, 2011 2:36 PM CDT reply actions
Were not going to call ourselves Sac
Not gonna happen
Why Does Schnelly coach at Florida Atlantic?
Because F.A.U.
by Kenny D on Aug 18, 2011 3:14 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Kentucky fans would straight riot if we added Duke...
I don’t know a single UK fan that likes Duke. In fact, their hatred for Duke is Auburn and Tennessee esque.
www.DIY-Fitness.com My 100 lb Weightloss Journey.
Follow on twitter @thelyell
I think it has something to do with this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY-iq58_oz4
But in all seriousness, Kentucky fans would be the happiest of all SEC fanbases if UNC and Duke were added. They may hate Duke, but they would LOVE a chance to play them each and every year. They already play UNC every year in non-conference play, but beefing up the SEC with more college basketball blue-bloods would make UK fans downright giddy, if I had to guess.
They wouldn't love the opp. to add 4 losses
and a tourney meeting along with the East slate.
Not seeing it.
Inanity @gothlaw
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not; a sense of humor to console him for what he is." -Sir Francis Bacon
by Stuck in the Plains on Aug 18, 2011 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions
teams aren't scared of L's in regular season basketball
The NCAA committee has shown time and again that SOS is more important than # of wins and losses. Diametrically opposite of the situation in football.
But they'd be competing for SEC titles too.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
I agree with Matt that they issue isnt the loses...BUT
UK can pretty much lock themselves into a top 4 seed right now…If you add UNC and Duke then that becomes much much harder.
www.DIY-Fitness.com My 100 lb Weightloss Journey.
Follow on twitter @thelyell
yeah not sure about UK wanting to see Duke
they really do hate them and christian latner in particular.
i got to say, those 3 years i spent in louisville gave me some respect for UK fans. they are the closest thing ive seen to Bama level devoted, but to basketball. anyway Louisville is better than UK anyway. Petino > cheating d-nozzle.. though Petino is also technically a cheater himself, just not in basketball….
In an industrial society which confuses work and productivity, the necessity of producing has always been an enemy of the desire to create. - Raoul Vaneigem
take this job and shove it - Johnny Paycheck
by tempebamafan on Aug 18, 2011 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions
though Petino is also technically a cheater himself, just not in basketball
ZING!
www.DIY-Fitness.com My 100 lb Weightloss Journey.
Follow on twitter @thelyell
Is Petino the lovechild of Petrino and Pitino?
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
hey man..i just hit Ctrl C
www.DIY-Fitness.com My 100 lb Weightloss Journey.
Follow on twitter @thelyell
id like to ask
the boys over at “A Sea is Blue” what they think. Would anyone oppose me going over there and throwing up a poll to see what they think?
www.DIY-Fitness.com My 100 lb Weightloss Journey.
Follow on twitter @thelyell
sure
link the article here and post a poll on their site. They have good readership so you should get some responses.
Dude, I know you've been losing weight...
…but throwing up a pole just doesn’t sound healthy to me….
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Aug 18, 2011 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions
…and to think to throw it up one has to eat the pole.
It's not what you've done but what you are doing that matters.
Maybe next year the Ice Surface at Jobing.com should be frozen with the tears of Winnipeg. - TimmyHate of FiveForHowling to a troll after it was alleged Coyote fans do not know how to ice skate.
by AlabamaJammer on Aug 19, 2011 6:53 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah...i entered myself into rehab last night..
pole regurgitation anonymous
www.DIY-Fitness.com My 100 lb Weightloss Journey.
Follow on twitter @thelyell
uhhh
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." - George Carlin
by Slice of Life on Aug 19, 2011 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions
what? what I thought we were in the trust tree in the nest, were we not?
www.DIY-Fitness.com My 100 lb Weightloss Journey.
Follow on twitter @thelyell
So THATS
how you lost that hundred pounds…
"Some people have a way with words....some people....not have way." - Steve Martin
my secret has been revealed...
OH NOzz!!!
www.DIY-Fitness.com My 100 lb Weightloss Journey.
Follow on twitter @thelyell
Yeah...
I’m NOT visiting your website now.
:)
There's no way, *no* way that you came from *my* loins. Soon as I get home, first thing I'm gonna do is punch yo mamma in da mouth! - B.T.J.
well you should...its amazing.
#shamelessplug
www.DIY-Fitness.com My 100 lb Weightloss Journey.
Follow on twitter @thelyell
2 questions:
1 – What is this website you speak of (I’ve never heard of it?
2 – What is your position on oatmeal?
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." - George Carlin
by Slice of Life on Aug 19, 2011 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions
#1, Its the greatest site ever and you automatically lose 10 lbs by clicking the link
#2. I like oatmeal but too much carbs can lead to energy be stored and not used, meaning it will be stored as fat. IT ALSO CAUSES CANCER OF THE FACE
www.DIY-Fitness.com My 100 lb Weightloss Journey.
Follow on twitter @thelyell
why don't you try it and let me know :)
#needmorehitssoIcanmake$$
www.DIY-Fitness.com My 100 lb Weightloss Journey.
Follow on twitter @thelyell
IT ALSO CAUSES CANCER OF THE FACE
Unless it is in the form of Little Debbie Oatmeal Creme pies.
"Some people have a way with words....some people....not have way." - Steve Martin
It sounds like you’ve been on your trust knees… until you threw up.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." - George Carlin
by Slice of Life on Aug 19, 2011 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions
This would have to be a package deal...
…that I could see happening.
This would only work if both teams got invites and both teams accepted together. There are very good reasons for them to both leave the ACC and for the SEC to want both schools.
The ACC is a sinking ship. I am talking about basketball as well when I say this. There’s a reason why the majority of FSU fans are itching to move to the SEC despite having to face a tougher road to the MNC. It’s already common knowledge that the ACC will no longer be competitive in CFB (especially considering the latest news with Miami.) But where the ACC once dominated they are now beginning to fail. Only three or four teams regularly attract large home crowds and only two teams (Duke and UNC) have large TV audiences. In general, the ACC is not as dedicated to sports success as the SEC. ACC homers would argue that it’s cyclical, but we know the truth. The money ship has sailed and the ACC will not be boarding.
I also agree with Matt that UNC and Duke could make the SEC a much more well rounded conference. Football is king, but the SEC can work on basketball and certainly academics. Duke and UNC bring very strong academics and the basketball tradition that the SEC is lacking. Aside from Kentucky the SEC lacks a basketball school with a nationwide auidence. With Duke and UNC the SEC would automatically become the number one basektball attraction. Can you picture Duke and UNC in Rupp Arena every year and the Cameron Crazies heckling Calipari to no end?
Just imagine for a second an SEC where in January you’d have Alabama, Auburn, LSU, etc competing for a MNC and in March you’ll have a Final four consisting of UNC, Duke, and Kentucky. Top that off with a decent academic reputation and then you can truly say you have the best and most well rounded conference in the country.
You are right except one thing.
It is not going to happen. I would wager most Bama fans who went to our game at Duke last year would agree. Duke is too different to be in the SEC. Duke does not need the money. Duke football is just for fun.
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
by 5026 on Aug 18, 2011 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good points but I just don't see it
I stand to be corrected because I am the furthest thing from an authority on the ACC but the folks I know who have ACC ties lead me to believe that there is a definite pecking order in that conference. And at the apex is UNC. VT fans have told me that UNC was the driving force that kept them out of the ACC for so long.
Maybe UNC’s recent unpleasantness with the folks in Indianapolis has hurt their prestige to a degree. But I still would wager that the Heels are a major cash cow for that league. Duke certainly has padded the bank account as well but UNC is a much larger institution with a much larger alumni and fanbase. Think about it. On an average fall Saturday, how many folks are going to tune in and help ESPN, etc. generate ad dollars when UNC is lining up vs when Duke is embarrassing themselves?
I guess crazier things have happened. I just don’t see it. That said, moving into totally new markets does make more sense than just adding eyeballs in markets where the SEC already has a strong presence.
In Orbe Terrum Non Visi
I completely agree with you Matt
I argued this exact scenario since last year.
"Never start a fight with an old man...if he's too old to fight, he'll probably just kill you."
i want just aTm and UNC
a 16 team conference is gonna bloooooww. can we wat least wait to see how much it sucks when the pac and big try it and fail?
i think matt makes great points but he over looked a crucial one. UNC fans will be far more tolelrable than those hillbilly trailer park meth lab racoon fvckers in mizzourah.
In an industrial society which confuses work and productivity, the necessity of producing has always been an enemy of the desire to create. - Raoul Vaneigem
take this job and shove it - Johnny Paycheck
One problem with this scenario...
Is recruiting. Picking up NC schools simply does not expose the SEC teams to a larger recruiting base the way Texas A&M, Oklahoma State, Missouri, or even UCF would. Of course, I’m partial to UCF because it would bring SEC football to Orlando…
As a UCF grad I'd be for them getting in
but it is not going to happen.
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
Too big a leap
UCF’s trying to position themselves into the Big East or ACC if there are defections from those conferences. C-USA to SEC is too big of a leap for a program so young.
WAY more recruits in NC than Oklahoma and probably Missouri too
Oklahoma produces very few recruits, and whatever they do almost certainly will stick with OU or OSU. Missouri produces a bit more but still not as many as NC.
Texas and Florida I’ll give you, but we’re already adding Texas A&M it seems and the SEC already does especially well in Florida when it comes to recruiting. Plus we’re talking about adding FSU as well, which would effectively lock down the SEC as the premiere recruiting destination for recruits from the Sunshine State. Certainly no need to add UCF, USF or Miami.
I
"I'm champagne and you're shit." - Jon Lovitz in Happiness
by sho' I stole on Aug 18, 2011 6:09 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
sometimes
you got to leave them wanting more. shrewd rhetorical technique IYAM…
In an industrial society which confuses work and productivity, the necessity of producing has always been an enemy of the desire to create. - Raoul Vaneigem
take this job and shove it - Johnny Paycheck
by tempebamafan on Aug 18, 2011 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions
E
Charles Martel, Charlemagne, William the Conqueror, Raymond IV the Count of Toulouse, Godfrey of Bouillon, Baldwin of Boulogne, Henry II, Richard the Lionheart, St. Joan of Arc and Napoleon Bonaparte -- all of good stock.
by TiderUpNorth on Aug 18, 2011 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Damn, and here I thought we were spelling a dyslexic O-H-I-O....
Inanity @gothlaw
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not; a sense of humor to console him for what he is." -Sir Francis Bacon
by Stuck in the Plains on Aug 18, 2011 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions
sub-commondante wayne
is calling out “o-h” in one of the RBR Friday Random 10 threads as we speak…
In an industrial society which confuses work and productivity, the necessity of producing has always been an enemy of the desire to create. - Raoul Vaneigem
take this job and shove it - Johnny Paycheck
by tempebamafan on Aug 18, 2011 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions
FAN-tastic.
I miss the Subcommandante
Inanity @gothlaw
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not; a sense of humor to console him for what he is." -Sir Francis Bacon
by Stuck in the Plains on Aug 18, 2011 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Never happen.
Duke is in the South, but not of the South. Too many damn foreigners and Yankees teaching there and students.
"I'm champagne and you're shit." - Jon Lovitz in Happiness
How many Southerners do you think are on faculty at UA. I’ll let you know I’m one of the few. And we have had ca. 40% out-of-state students for the past several incoming classes. But yes, I understand the thesis of your argument.
We live in the city of dreams, we drive on the highway of fire, should we awake and find it gone, remember this our favorite town
UA was flooded with out of state students in the 1920s after our first national championship.
All by George Denny’s design.
God bless our Dark Lord.
partially because
of the impoverishment of in-state applicants which they already cornered the market on.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
Several of the...
…Jewish students I was at UA with were there because they had grandparents who attended the university as a result of the advertising/appeals made by UA under Denny….
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Aug 19, 2011 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Their grandparents...
…were mostly raised in NY….
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Aug 19, 2011 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions
I had read a nice writeup
on the Jewish community at UA. I’ll see if I can track that down again and post a link.
"Some people have a way with words....some people....not have way." - Steve Martin
Only thing worse
than a bigot is a foreigner ;)
"Some people have a way with words....some people....not have way." - Steve Martin
by 13thBama on Aug 18, 2011 7:22 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I went to grad school there. If you want sad, imagine
a convoy of ECU fans driving up on Thursday for a Saturday night game, who are ready for some tailgaiting and, perchance, mischief. Everybody ignored them for the entire weekend and they just camped out, went to Bullocks and wandered around campus like tourists.
That would be the Duke experience for SEC home games—contempt and patronizing tolerance. Sound fun to you?
Duke would never be affiliated with SEC because of academics anyway. They think they’re the Harvard of the South and believe it. SEC is best served giving that crew a wide bearth. UNC as well, touchy like a pigmy hippo.
"I'm champagne and you're shit." - Jon Lovitz in Happiness
by sho' I stole on Aug 18, 2011 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions
We could take a move from the Big Integer...
…name the divisions Beef and Pork.
It's not what you've done but what you are doing that matters.
Maybe next year the Ice Surface at Jobing.com should be frozen with the tears of Winnipeg. - TimmyHate of FiveForHowling to a troll after it was alleged Coyote fans do not know how to ice skate.
if we go to 4 divisions
we got Vinegar (assuming the NC schools come aboard), Dry Rub (tennesee and all who are close and know the truth about BBQ), Hawg (the rest of us), and Cow (for aTm and whoever is an idiot)
In an industrial society which confuses work and productivity, the necessity of producing has always been an enemy of the desire to create. - Raoul Vaneigem
take this job and shove it - Johnny Paycheck
by tempebamafan on Aug 18, 2011 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions
yes 2 Duke
great insight here but missing a given: no current member will allow an in-state team to be added. NO FSU, Clemson, Ga Tech.
SEC goal is Texas so A&M is a given.
The college football world outside the SEC will bitch and moan and becry the horrors until they hear the next team…the 14th..is Duke. Slive will thumb his nose at the naysayers about Texas A by adding Duke saying the SEC is not just about football and talk up the academics just like you mentioned. And its the best and easiest way to get into Texas, and the growing NC market you mention. Plus play PC game with academics but onthe backside increase basketball (that other sport) in SEC and Duke can still play UNC ala Memphis/UT every year.
You hit the nail on the head but it should be Duke with Texas A imo.
"I never gave anybody hell! I just told the truth and they thought it was hell" --Pres. Harry Truman
You are delusional.
In fact all of you who think Duke wants in the SEC show how little you know about Duke.
And, just because the SEC wants a school does not mean they will get the school.
Get this, a school must first want to be in the SEC in order to be in the SEC.
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
enlighten us
first about Duke, which you don’t explain but just shoot down and then this:
“If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players”
Substitute New Mexico with Idaho, Connecticut, Wyoming, South Dakota…would you still have them and their dumb coach and their cheating players or does New Mexico as a state hold a special place in your heart we’re all not understanding? wtf???
"I never gave anybody hell! I just told the truth and they thought it was hell" --Pres. Harry Truman
I don't think I understand your point.
I’m assuming you had one.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
/roll die
INEFFECTIVE ATTACK IS INEFFECTIVE
/Fitty uses “CONSPIRACY THEORY”
CRITICAL HIT + ELEMENTAL DAMAGE OF TIN FOIL
/op260 dies
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." - George Carlin
by Slice of Life on Aug 19, 2011 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions
OP...
- Duke is a private school and they do not need the money for their school or their athletic program. In fact Duke prides itself on being an Ivy League type school. If you have ever been on their campus you would know how different they are from the rest of the SEC. We might as well be talking about Yale getting into the SEC.
Listen, I’m not saying the SEC would not want them. I’m saying Duke would not want to be in the SEC. The ACC is going to one day fall apart. A few of the teams, like BC, may get into the Big 10. The others will likely form a new conference of 16 teams with the best of the Big East. We are headed to 4 conferences with 16 teams in each. It may be 5 years but we are headed that way.
But all you folks who think Duke wants in the SEC are just crazy.
As fas as Auburn. I’d hate them if they were located on the moon and we never heard from them.
If Auburn were playing Iran I’d be wearing Irainian colors.
If Auburn loses 10 games this year it won’t be enough.
I really wish they would somehow get on such steep NCAA probabtion they get kicked out of the SEC.
If that can’t happen I wish they would jump ship and go to another conference.
If that can’t happen I hope we have a realignment in the SEC and they put AU in the East and we only play them once evey 8 years.
But, I have nothing against New Mexico. Or Old Mexico as far as that goes. But, I have to drive through Auburn, well close to it, on my way from Columbus to Birmingham to Tuscaloosa for Bama games. I can promsie you this—I get plenty of gas so that I never, ever have to stop near Auburn in Opelika etc. If my car were to ever break down in Opelika I’d have it towed back to Columbus to get it fixed. If I had an emergency and needed to go to the bathroom in the Auburn area I’d probably just as soon pee in my pants. When I go to a Bama game at the cow pasture I pack a lunch and after the game I do not conversate with any of the locals. If I never had to go to another game at Jordan and see that bird flying around it would be just fine with me. Now if that bird went crazy and attacked Cheese Wiz, well that would be worth the admission.
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
by 5026 on Aug 20, 2011 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You are right about Duke's campus...
the buildings and architecture look very much like Princeton’s.
Reporter: What would you say a Greg Studrawa offense is like? Stud:
"Attack and be very physical…fly around…attacking, come after you and come after you and come after you…." Me: I love this answer.
GET TO THE RIM HEAT (and SKY)! ATTACK THE PAINT!
by mjtig on Aug 22, 2011 3:45 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I love the idea
At this very moment Duke may have zero interest in leaving the ACC but what happens if the ACC falls apart at the seems as a conference? I don’t know a great deal about Duke, but I do not think it is delusional to think that it is a possibility. I agree with OP260 that Florida, USCe and Georgia would do everything they possibly could to keep another in state team from joining the SEC. If that is the case I think trying to get Duke and UNC into the SEC is a very viable option. Of course, extending an invitation doesn’t mean they will join but you never know until you ask. Adding Duke and/or UNC makes way more sense than adding Missou imo.
Imagine Duke playing UK in Rupp....
Now you see why Duke would never come to the SEC.
Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun
Don’t cross the streams, man.
It's not what you've done but what you are doing that matters.
Maybe next year the Ice Surface at Jobing.com should be frozen with the tears of Winnipeg. - TimmyHate of FiveForHowling to a troll after it was alleged Coyote fans do not know how to ice skate.
by AlabamaJammer on Aug 19, 2011 6:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Foreplay.
It's not what you've done but what you are doing that matters.
Maybe next year the Ice Surface at Jobing.com should be frozen with the tears of Winnipeg. - TimmyHate of FiveForHowling to a troll after it was alleged Coyote fans do not know how to ice skate.
by AlabamaJammer on Aug 19, 2011 6:56 AM CDT up reply actions
There's a Texas A&M joke in there somewhere...
but I’ll leave that to Thujone and friends.
Thirteen.
by Darth Saban on Aug 20, 2011 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions
If we are going to 16....
then I think Duke and UNC would be ideal picks. If they were coming then they would have to come together so I highly doubt that one of them would make the move to be the 14th. All the reasons for wanting these 2 are laid out and I think they’re absolutely correct.
With that said, I highly doubt that Duke or UNC want out of the ACC. The snobs over there wouldn’t want to associate with the “inferior” SEC and I’m talking about academics here. They are both AAU schools and it would be highly unusual for AAU schools to want out of a conference with a large number of AAU schools. Unless the ACC is falling apart behind the scenes then I don’t think this is realistic.
I think Mike Slive has hinted in the past that Duke and UNC would be schools that he would love to have, but I don’t think they want the SEC. I could be wrong though.
I think the SEC presidents are definitely looking for AAU schools if possible and I think the only 2 that we might be able to get that fit that criteria are Mizzou and Georgia Tech. I don’t know that that’s what’s going to happen. I’m just looking at it from the perspective of these academic schools that would want the SEC. In the case of Mizzou I’m not even sure they really want the SEC, but they may have to settle for that because the Big 10 is probably not going to come calling.
Totally agree.
I get the feeling that Duke, UNC, and UVa (or at least significant portions of their constituencies) would be relatively happy for the “new ACC” to fall apart and let them get back to the way things used to be for them. The “real” ACC.
God bless our Dark Lord.
Question:
considering all of the arguments made against adding a school to a State in which we already have a presence, why would we add two schools in the same State? I understand that they may be a package deal, but wouldn’t it make sense to add one school in North Carolina, and another somewhere else?
Also, I can’t seem to find a source, but aren’t there conference admission requirements, re: stadium size, average attendance, and such?
Thirteen.
I see what you are saying....
but I don’t think 2 North Carolina schools would be an issue. North Carolina is a larger state so it wouldn’t be overkill in the same way that adding USC and Clemson would have been back in the day. One school or the other covers the markets whereas Duke and UNC bring a different dynamic.
Duke is not a large state school. Their students are drawn from all over the country and that’s true for the athletes as well. I don’t think Duke has a large alumni base period much less in the state of NC, but they would bring A LOT of viewers nationally for a basketball game. I don’t know if you like Dick Vitale, but you can see Dickey V and whoever else calling numerous Duke games in a single season and this time they would be with SEC teams. Duke basketball to ESPN is kind of like Alabama football to CBS, they are on there all the time. UNC would bring a lot of TV sets within North Carolina from alumni as well as casual fans and when it comes to basketball they would also bring a large national audience.
Duke is kind of like Vandy. They are relatively small and recruit from all over the country because the academic requirements are so high. I think the fact that they are in North Carolina is negligible.
Then there is also the package deal. I just don’t see one or the other leaving all that the ACC is. Actually, I don’t think either of them will come in a package deal either, but at least then the odds are greater.
Another question:
what exactly does the SEC actually have to do with academics? I understand that it is a collection of universities, but it is a collection of the athletic teams from universities.
Does the debate and forensics team (which has won 16 National Championships, by the way) compete in the SEC? (No, debate and forensics is not one of the 19 SEC sports – 9 men’s, 10 women’s – because the SEC is an athletic conference, and debate is not a sport.)
Thirteen.
I've never figured that out, why academics gets brought into discussions about an athletic conference,
but apparently it makes a big deal to the presidents. Something about being judged by their “peer group”.
God bless our Dark Lord.
Academics is important
because 1- The Presidents, not the AD make the calls on what a conference does etc. And, the Presidents care about academics.
2. – You want to play schools on a similar academic level as yourself. Why? Because guess what, players have to actually attend classes etc. Let me give you an example. Vandy is actually much tougher academically than say UT. UT beats them all the time because the players that go to Vandy have to be admitted to Vandy. They must score better than the players at UT. It is just logic that an athletic conf. will be better if all the schools are on the same level academically. Thus recruiting is a level field.
There is a reason the ACC is not as good as the SEC in football. They can’t recruit with the SEC and one factor is academics.
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
Yeah...
I think you are pretty much right. So all this talk of not wanting to associate with a conference with lower academic standards is just an admission that they know they can’t beat us. So they just make up reason why they are “better” than us after all.
Guys, I say we bring in anyone that wants to come that is a quality school
And by quality, I mean that the school is committed to making their institution not only a place of higher learning, but a place where athletics and academics both flourish.
Or someone we just love pounding into submission…..and that’s only fun when it’s a DUKE, UNC, etc……….
I am now and shall forever be the Cat in The Hat, The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!!!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Aug 19, 2011 7:28 AM CDT reply actions
OK...after mulling this over
Great article, by the way. And very good arguments.
I tend to agree that if we HAVE to go to 16, then, as a fan, I’m “okay” with UNC-Duke. I couldn’t care less about basketball, so that isn’t what drives my opinion. When you mention balancing the power of the SEC (in football) as well as bringing in new markets, recruiting, and even academics, then I’m on board. I am firmly in the camp of ‘to be the best, you must beat the best’ so for all those who are clamoring for us to be Boise State, then I’m NOT in for that. Great games against great competition is what makes COLLEGE football the best sport ever invented. EVER. Watching us play a slate of Vandy, Duke, UK, Ole Miss, etc every game would eventually drive me away from watching the sport. However, since we do have teams of such great tradition to make up for the other teams, we can bring a few others along for the ride, I suppose… I would see UNC being a middle-of-the-pack team in about 8-10 years, much like USC has become. Duke, well, they are Duke. They’ll up our acedemic standards and give Vandy someone to beat on. A&M has just enough tradition to be a team much like Arky (challenge for the division title every few years and go bowling more times than not). The other addition would need to be AT LEAST that caliber or greater to ensure the SEC stays at the top of the leader board.
Of course, all of this drivel is my opinion only…
There's no way, *no* way that you came from *my* loins. Soon as I get home, first thing I'm gonna do is punch yo mamma in da mouth! - B.T.J.
I'm kind of hesitant about wanting FSU in the SEC, but in the end I believe it would be better for the school.
I believe FSU would be fine, as long as Jimbo and Co. continue with what they’ve been doing. Not only would the SEC add a decent football team (not great yet, but they’re getting there, we’ll know alot more come Sept. 17th) but they’d also be getting decent baseball and basketball teams as well.
I just don’t see UNC or Duke hopping over. I believe they want to stay in the ACC, especially for basketball purposes. I was stationed at Ft. Bragg for a while and I must say NC is all about their basketball programs (UNC, Duke, NC State, Wake) and the money the four schools bring into the Raleigh-Durham area during basketball season, not to mention the schools themselves.
However, I don’t think the SEC is going to expand unless they have a definate answer from a 14th team. I believe that is why Texas A&M got voted against, for now. I believe that once they get a definate “yes”, whether that’s FSU or whoever, then they’ll add more teams.
If FSU is offered the jump, I think they’ll take it, but I expect those bunch of fat asses from Gainseville to have a hysterical, child-like tantrum to keep FSU out of the SEC.
Good luck this year. Hopefully I’ll be able to make the Arkansas game on the 24th next month while I’m home on R&R.
GO NOLES!
ROLL TIDE!
He bleeds Garnet and Gold, She bleeds Crimson and White. AND THEY BOTH HATE ORANGE! GO NOLES!! ROLL TIDE!!
by gonolesrolltide on Aug 19, 2011 7:55 PM CDT reply actions
I don't think they got "voted against..."
I think there was simply not a vote, since there had been no application.
Thirteen.
by Darth Saban on Aug 20, 2011 12:42 AM CDT up reply actions
One thing you might want to consider with your plan
Is that adding FSU, Duke, and UNC to the SEC would blow up the ACC (at least as a major conference, and possibly completely). I’m not sure if the SEC wants that; I am sure ESPN doesn’t. If the ACC loses one school, they can probably pluck off someone from the Big East (likely Syracuse, but Rutgers, UConn, and Pitt could be in the mix as well; some fans talk WVU and Louisville, but that’s unlikely unless the ACC is getting desperate and the Big East is falling apart at the same time); if they lose three, then the movement is going to be in the other direction (BC and Maryland for sure, almost certainly a third, and could end up with everyone but Miami and either Clemson or Wake Forest in the end if we went all the way to 16).
From the ACC and Big East
will eventually emerge a 16 team conference- probably the EAC- The Eastern Athletic Conference. A few ACC teams will go to the SEC and few of them may go to The Big Ten.
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
Even if the SEC goes to 16
16-team conferences breaking out all over is far from inevitable. Heck, I still think it’s very unlikely the Pac 12 expands without Texas, and very unlikely the Big Ten expands without Notre Dame.

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