On BE/ACC/SEC Expansion
by AZLK on Sep 18, 2011 9:28 PM CDT
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PrintCouple things real quick: 1.) I am a Bama fan by birth but I lived in upstate NY for a while so I am a Syracuse fan as well. 2.) This is my first post on RBR, sooo Roll Tide.
I was freaking out all day yesterday at Bryant-Denny. As much as I enjoyed watching the Tide roll, I kept on checking the news for any more expansion updates. I have never really liked the ACC and I could never imagine Syracuse leaving the Big East after we blasted Miami, BC, and Va Tech for doing the same thing. I think it was a brilliant move by the ACC, especially if they pick up UConn and Rutgers as well (thats where the smart money is at this point), or if they pull a coup and manage to land ND (who they have been courting since the 90s). The ACC will become the 3rd best FOOTBALL conference in the country (SEC, B10, Pac12 ACC) as well as the undisputed #1 basketball conference when this expansion takes effect (possibly not til 2014). West Virginia is leaving the Big East for the SEC, expect the official announcement by Wednesday at the latest. Everything I've heard is that the ACC and Pac-X are looking to expand to 16 ASAP, their commissioners consider themselves progressive and see 16 team superconferences as the inevitable wave of the future. The SEC and Big10 are taking the more conservative approach and staying put at 14 (look for B10 to add 2 schools from the sinking B12 or BE conferences within the next month). Im excited and scared for Syracuse but I love seeing the respect from my fellow Bama fans about the value of Syracuse, thank you. I know SEC pride runs high in football and a lot of fans in the area don't look too closely at other conferences but Syracuse football is up-and-coming and Pitt is reloading, this expansion really does strengthen ACC football as well. Ok I'm done ranting, ROLL TIDE!
Summary
*Facts:
-Syracuse and Pitt to ACC effective 2014 (27 month waiting period/$5 Million buyout unless other agreement is reached).
-UConn has been aggressively pursuing ACC since Sat morning, Rutgers, Lville, ND also rumored for 15/16 slots.
-WVU has submitted application to SEC, may be a done deal. Expect announcement by Wednesday.
-Pac-12 pursuing package deal for OU/OSU, Texas/TTech. Expect deal to be reached within next 2 weeks.
-SEC expected to stay put at 14 schools for foreseeable future.
Speculation:
-Big 10 may look to add 2 additional schools from remaining Big 12/Big East schools (i.e. Mizz, Lville, Rutgers, etc.)
-ACC may look at including Madison Square Garden in championship venue rotation.
-Look for the basketball-only Big East schools to try to block SU/Pitt/others from leaving a la Baylor.
-Big East may act quickly (early this week) and make a move for remaining Big 12 schools, they have been in contact with Kansas, KSU, ISU, Mizzou for the last several weeks and they would compliment TCU geographically and bring in strong new markets.
*I use the term loosely
FanPosts are just that; posts created by the fans. They are in no way indicative of the opinions of SBN and the authors of Roll Bama Roll.
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Will the SEC stay put at 14?
I haven’t seen that addressed. 14 is a better fit IMO — we need another conference game right now (don’t need Kent State, GA Southern, and N Texas all in one year) — and 16 would really turn it into 2 separate conferences. I would prefer Mizzou over WVU but reports seem strong on WVU coming in. Don’t see what they bring per se in terms of TV and thats a tough cold road trip for most SEC teams.
What really screwed up college sports is when the Big East turned down Penn State way back (was it the 80’s or so?). Penn State in the Big East would have given weight to a solid football conference with WVU, Syracuse, Pitt, Rutgers, UConn, VaTech. Penn State in the Big 10 still doesn’t feel right — even a bunch of PSU fans told me that last weekend. That version of the Big East would have been a natural geographic conference with a lot of cultural ties. Things would be a lot more stable if that had happened — but the Big East powers back in the day blew it.
These made for TV deals are never going to work — who wants to see Oklahoma play Cal, Oregon State, even UCLA. And who cares about seeing BC play Wake Forest. But the ACC may have finally got a true northern and southern thing going — it will feel like 2 different conferences but they may have the right regional mix now.
by Son of Roaring Dan on Sep 18, 2011 9:45 PM CDT reply actions
Obviously 24-team conferences is the wave of the future.
/still doesn’t understand why 16 is the magic number
God bless our Dark Lord.
I actually like the pod setup the PAC-16 is talking about.
4 four team pods. You play everybody in your pod and two teams from each of the other pods. It makes for a nine-game schedule and you’re guaranteed to have a game against all of the other teams two out of every four years. You do lose the non-divisional rivalries, but it’s an interesting setup.
agreed.
Inanity @gothlaw
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not; a sense of humor to console him for what he is." -Sir Francis Bacon
by Stuck in the Plains on Sep 19, 2011 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I was talking to a friend about that
Four divisions of four sets up nicely. Play every team in your division, have a protected rival from each other division, and then rotate for another one in each division. That sets up for nine conference games and a four team conference tournament. I hate conference expansion, but this is the best way to do a 16 team conference in my opinion.
NCAA could be left in the dust...
At some point, I see the schools telling the NCAA to f** off. Once the schools can agree on the best approach for them, the NCAA will have little authority to do anything.
Entirely possible that 4 super conferences could absolve themselves of all connection with the NCAA.
by REIGNofSABAN on Sep 19, 2011 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Good luck with that.
They would still need a governing body, and they won’t want to reinvent the wheel. And they will still want to play other (NCAA) schools at least in non-revenue sports.
God bless our Dark Lord.
Agreed.
While I agree that it’s a bit of a stretch to say that it would happen, it is still entirely possible. College Football has been here before. The schools have the true authority, once they decide to speak with one voice.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904332804576538363266882374.html
by REIGNofSABAN on Sep 19, 2011 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
YES!! Get out of the NCAA.
64 teams can govern themselves. Why should some guy from Strausburg St. decided the fate of Alabama?
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
The NCAA was formed as a response to all of that.
And yes, the schools have the authority. They are the ones that make up the NCAA.
God bless our Dark Lord.
You keep saying this.
The point is that the current NCAA can’t work because there are too many institutions with different priorities. The ridiculous amount of money generated by a select few major programs has changed everything. They don’t want to have to share it with schools who don’t care about/invest in their football programs, and why should they?
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Because it's still prohibitively difficult for them to do it all on their own.
God bless our Dark Lord.
I think you're overstating this
or at least underestimating what the powerhouse schools think they can do.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
I am? I would say that you guys are overestimating what they think they can do.
Have you heard any legitimate inkling of school presidents talking about doing this? It’s nothing but a bunch of fan talk.
You’re right, I keep saying this: If they broke off from the NCAA, they’d still need an NCAA-like organization, and they won’t want to create and administer that on their own. And they would still want to play the NCAA schools at least in non-revenue sports. All of the talk about breaking away just doesn’t seem realistic to me; just sounds like a bunch of people dreaming up theories.
God bless our Dark Lord.
But you're assuming the NCAA will continue to exist in its current form.
This is an interesting take on the matter.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
There's no meat there.
He doesn’t provide any explanation for how any of that would happen (what mechanism would make it happen; just media bloviating? not likely).
God bless our Dark Lord.
I think it's more
that it’s inevitable that something is going to happen, and I agree. Don’t know what that means but I do know that we’ve never seen the landscape changing, at any one time, as much as it is right now.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Conferences shifting around is one thing. That has happened reasonably frequently actually.
But the NCAA has controlled (to varying degrees) the sport for what, 80 years now? It’s not going away. I could see there possibly being a new division created or some other new structure (BCS type) within the NCAA members, but I don’t see schools leaving the NCAA altogether.
God bless our Dark Lord.
Just because they have doesn't mean they will.
The money is so much different now than it was even 20 years ago. And I’m not sure why you think that the top 64-or-whatever schools would insist on playing other schools in other sports outside the 64-or-whatever; I think they’d be able to find plenty of good competition. Or, for that matter, why forming their own governing body with their own set of rules would preclude them from doing so.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
You are right.
The money is huge for the 64 and they don’t need the NCAA. Why should the little schools tell the big schools what to do?
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
I don't think it would.
As I’ve read it, you basically have a floating 9th game taking place on Thanksgiving weekend. Teams are told at the beginning of the season if they will be home or away but not who they are playing. Then, you play the team with the same ranking as you.
For example:
SEC East hosts SEC West and SEC North hosts SEC South
SEC East #1 vs. SEC West #1
SEC North #1 vs. SEC South #1
SEC East #2 vs. SEC West #2
etc.
Then, the two winners of the #1 games play in the SEC Championship game. For every other team it’s the 9th and final conference game of the season.
It would be really interesting, though I’m not sure if the coaches would be fans.
hmmm, hadn't heard that.
I guess that could be possible. Still seems unlikely though.
God bless our Dark Lord.
Interesting...
I’m somewhat attracted to that set-up, mainly bc of the whole ‘not knowing who you’ll be playing’ thing.
by REIGNofSABAN on Sep 19, 2011 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions
It would have to be something along these lines
because teams will have to go back to 11 game schedules to accommodate conference semis while staying within the maximum 14 allowed.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
I like the pod thing
but you can do it with 8 conference games. Play your 3 then play 4 rotating teams from the other 12. You play each team outside of your pod once every 3 years. Then the final game is a blind game decided by pod standings. You do not have permanent rivals outside your pod. Teams not making the “first” round playoffs, which is the 8th game, will have an 8th game based on pod rankings but not to be a team they have already played. The pods would thus set up something like- Far West- A&M, Missouri, Arky, LSU. Near West- Bama, MSU, Ole Miss, AU. Near East- UF, UK, Vandy, UT, Far East- UGA, SC, WV (no please, no), NC State.
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
I think Syracuse and Pitt bring
a lot to the ACC. They both have great tradition and to be honest given the right circumstances either could get strong enough to win the ACC and even the NC.
I think expansion to 16 for all is going to happen even to the Big 10. I’m not in favor of it but it does create a playoff system. ND must get in the Big 10. Then we need to either blow up Boise or convince them to become a part of a new subdivision with the likes of Southern Miss, Houston, Rice, etc.
But, if you solve the ND & Boise problems then you have 4 conference winners going against each other in round one of bowl games (Jan. 1) and then the winners in round two (Jan. 10.)
There is lot of money to be made by the 64 teams lucky enough to land in one of the 4 conferences and money will make it happen.
I do not think if you have 16 teams in your conference you will not need to play more than 8 conference games a year. You just are going to have to rotate teams both in and out of your division. The 4 non conference games mean a lot of money for schools like Bama. If we cut down to 3 we will never see the likes of Bama vs. PSU again. We will, by necessity, play 3 cupcakes at home each year. Putting 101,000 in the stadium at $50 a pop for 3 “scrimages” a year is a lot of green to throw away because the fans want to see more “good” games.
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
but it does create a playoff system.
It does?? 16-team conferences might make it easier to create a playoff but it certainly doesn’t guarantee anything, especially as long as the other 50 or so schools that won’t be in one of these “super-conferences” are still in the same NCAA Division.
God bless our Dark Lord.
Yes, you must create a new division which Boise can win every year.
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
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