A Quick Note on Greyshirting
by outsidethesidelines on Feb 4, 2012 12:46 PM CST
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PrintAs inevitable as the sun rising in the east, another National Signing Day was followed by another outcry against greyshirting and all of its supposed ills, and as is typically the case much of the spotlight was on Alabama. By no means is that practice unique to Tuscaloosa, of course, and many schools in fact have made this standard custom and practice for roster management, but Nick Saban is the easy villain so he bears the brunt of the criticism, as usual. The outcry is predictable at this point, but the recent hard cap imposed by the SEC has worked to make such situations more frequent. With all of that in mind, a quick thought on greyshirting.
First, take the 30,000 foot view of the current competitive landscape. Consider the two basic realities at play in big-time college football: Coaches are paid large amounts of money to win and are promptly fired if they do not win enough, and the inherent nature of the recruiting melodrama is such that a significant number of prospects will not make a decision until the last minute and many other prospects will do an about-face on or near National Signing Day, eschewing a long-time verbal commitment when letters of intent arrive for another school.
In real terms, the interplay of those two inescapable realities is that for head coaches to win enough to continue being head coaches, much less compete for conference and national championships, they must be highly aggressive in terms of roster management. Only 85 players are allowed on scholarship at any given time, and invariably some signees will see their collegiate careers end prematurely regardless, whether it be to early entrance into the NFL Draft, poor academics, arrests, or some other intervening circumstance that brings their college career to an early end. This unavoidable attrition typically makes it necessary that coaches maximize the size of individual recruiting classes in order to offset the roster turnover.
Well, the powers-that-be decree a hard cap of only twenty-five signees per year? That simply means that in most cases head coaches will have to find a way to bring in exactly 25 signees. Legislative fiat or not, games must still be won, stadiums must still be filled, rosters must still be maximized in terms of capacity, and each spot that goes unfilled becomes the literal equivalent of self-imposed scholarship sanctions, each and every one of which limits programs in their ability to compete come Autumn Saturdays.
So in essence the maximum signees allowed by legislation becomes the minimum allowed by on-field realities. With no real flexibility in terms of class size, it then falls on head coaches to perform a perfect balancing act -- whereby all available scholarships are awarded while no prospect is forced to greyshirt, much less actually lose a scholarship -- which is almost impossible given the late decisions and potential defections. The inevitable result in most instances is that someone will be left out in the cold, and so it happened this seasons at countless schools, including Alabama, LSU, Stanford and many others.
For this, head coaches tend to get painted in an unfavorable light by the sports media talking heads and the self-appointed moral authorities, but a fairer look isn't nearly as harsh. Coaches are, after all, doing no more than simply trying to maximize on-field success given the applicable rules established by those above them (which is, incidentally, their job), and many modern rule changes have made that job even harder. Long gone are the days when most coaches could freely take risks on players with potential academic problems or uncertain medical issues, for example. With each spot now unused being lost forever, coaches simply have to be certain that whoever they allow to fill those spots can, at a bare minimum, qualify academically and arrive to campus relatively healthy in the months immediately after National Signing Day. Evaluations, then, become even more critical, all the while the nature of the recruiting cycle changes such that -- due to earlier decisions of many prospects and the acceleration of the recruiting process as a whole -- evaluations must be made much sooner than in years past, with much less information, and a greater potential of a bad outcome with a missed evaluation. And when something inevitably goes wrong, the coaches, and not the system under which they are forced to operate in, inevitably become the scapegoats.
Players, of course, aren't winners either and fairness are often left with a series of bad choices at the very end of a long process. Given their lack of power to change the situation in terms of the existing system, the best advice for them moving forward may simply be to become more vigilant in their college selections and to become more aware of the harsh realities of the current scholarship regime in place. Don't want to greyshirt? Fair enough, but realize that, for example, as a recruit almost certain to redshirt who then suffers a major injury while part of the recruiting class of a top program, a greyshirt is a legitimate, perhaps even likely, possibility at that point given the the numbers crunch that programs must successfully navigate. In real terms that means committing to a lesser program that can more readily guarantee a spot as a mid-summer enrollment, which admittedly may not be ideal, but realistically little more can be done and that at least helps avoid the turmoil of having to make a last-minute decision under great pressure.
In the final analysis, like it or not, this is the nature of the beast vis-a-vis the current regime in place. Scholarships have been systematically reduced for many years now, both in terms of overall rosters and individual recruiting classes, all in the name of searching for a nebulous concept of "fairness" for institutions with fewer resources. Perhaps that is a noble pursuit, perhaps not. Either way, when you have a system intentionally designed to limit the number of scholarships given out to prospects, don't be surprised when some prospects are left out in the cold when the ink dries on National Signing Day, and don't blame head coaches who are simply trying to do their jobs to the best of their abilities.
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Excellent analysis, MDF...
…and thank you for striving to educate the masses.
On a related note, if you want to know which states take their football the most seriously, head over to ESPN’s college football page and look at the latest poll question: How interested are you in national signing day? The only states that currently rate ‘very interested’ are California and every single SEC state (including newly added Missouri and Texas). And California barely squeaks in with a 34% rate of very interested respondents. Most of the SEC rates somewhere in the 40s or 50s, and the only state above 60% is Alabama at 71% very interested.
I wonder why our spring game always has such a large crowd? Roll Tide, fellow addicts….
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Feb 4, 2012 1:04 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I think the reasons we are so interested
in signing day besides the obvious future of our team is: 1. A lot of us actually know these high school players and we are excited to see where they are going and 2. We don’t really have much else going on right now because our BBall is not as big a deal as it is in other places. National Signing Day comes about half way between bowl games and Spring Football and it is a welcome break from the long off season which is way too long.
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
how many Alabama greyshirts have earned playing time?
I think that the emphasis on greyshirting is a bit misplaced. I think the better metric would be how many greyshirts have found playing time and to what extent. For instance, if there has been 10 greyshirts in the last 5 years, how many have played and to what extent have they participated. If it turns out that those that are greyshirted rarely see the field, then being offered a greyshirt may be an acknowledgement that the staff does not believe that you can make the cut. However, if several greyshirts have made the field, especially have played at a high level, then the greyshirt means nothing more than delaying enrollment and the recruit just has to decide if they really want to compete and play at Alabama.
by SI Reasoning on Feb 4, 2012 1:05 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
William Vlachos
I think few will argue the impact he has had since grayshirting.
Vlachos did not greyshirt.
Shula planned to greyshirt him, and Saban placed him on the normal mid-summer enrollment when he arrived.
"Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." -- Milton Friedman
by outsidethesidelines on Feb 5, 2012 1:03 PM CST up reply actions
I think the easiest way to get rid of these problems
would be to abolish the concept of “Signing Day”. Allow players to sign any time during their senior year and make those signatures binding for both players and schools. This would force schools to offer only the players they really want and not hedge by offering their backup plans as well. This would also benefit the coaches in that they would know exactly when to move on from a prospective athlete and offer somebody else. There might still be some greyshirting, but it would be obvious from the start because the prospective greyshirt would never have an offer and would presumably know who the school was targeting ahead of him.
by rugman11 on Feb 4, 2012 1:16 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I totally agree.
But, you’d still have to have a start date even if it is the 1st day of school. So in effect whatever was the 1st day of signing would become signing day.
I’d like to see an early signing day, say Nov. 1, and on that day a team can only sign 15 guys. Then come back on Feb. 1 and sign the rest. After you sign your 1st 15 you can then fill in needs better.
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
True. Technically we have a signing period now, not just a signing day,
but the practical effect is that most everyone looks at that one day.
God bless our Dark Lord.
As long as this "early signing period" begins after the high school football season ends
seeing how Taylor was a physical injury.
9th January, 2012: Section 101, Row 1, Seat... I'll let y'all spot that one.
"And a crashin' blow from a huge right hand
Sent a Louisiana fellow to the Promised Land"
-- "Big John" by Jimmy Dean
exactly...
…there should be an early signing period that is binding for both recruit and school, but it should definitely come after their senior season. Injury is the biggest concern, but you also don’t want recruits effectively taking their senior year “off” to try and avoid injury. They need to play to continue to develop, plus a strong senior year could get them a better/more desirable offer than simply taking the bird in the hand before the season starts.
Roll Bama Roll - The Champagne of Bama Blogs.
Quick Note
I love that this is was OTS calls a “Quick Note”
Yeah I don't think things worked out bad for those kids
if there goal was to play— they will play more at those schools.
If they wanted to stay close to home it was not so good for them.
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
The haters always use the phrase "kicked to the curb"
That is BS. Clearly these kids are not missing out on playing college football. They could still become members of the Crimson Tide but they chose to go elsewhere (even though they will probably redshirt anyway).
The big one last year was Lorenzo Mauldin getting dropped by Spurrier, He still got to sign with Louisville.
I dare anyone out there to name a single time that Saban has asked someone to greyshirt and they were left without a scholarship.
Meanwhile, Chizik has 43 percent of Auburn’s 2009 and 2010 signees no longer on the team and Richt is getting players arrested left-and right. Outrage is clearly misguided.
Fourteen and counting
"Richt is getting players arrested?"
I’m relatively sure Richt didn’t task any players to steal money much less whoop-up on a live-in girlfriend.
9th January, 2012: Section 101, Row 1, Seat... I'll let y'all spot that one.
"And a crashin' blow from a huge right hand
Sent a Louisiana fellow to the Promised Land"
-- "Big John" by Jimmy Dean
True, but if you don't think Georgia's pro-UGA and pro-GATech media WON'T hammer away at Coach Saban over the Taylor situation, you have another think coming.
As I alluded to in a different post, I completely understand the concerns of the coaching staff regarding our 2 greyshirt situations this past NSD. However, this is not going to get any positive press and is a situation best avoided in the future. Hopefully, AJC’s relentless anti-Saban streak doesn’t spread elsewhere in Georgia.
9th January, 2012: Section 101, Row 1, Seat... I'll let y'all spot that one.
"And a crashin' blow from a huge right hand
Sent a Louisiana fellow to the Promised Land"
-- "Big John" by Jimmy Dean
I don't think it will effect us. Sabah is the best path to the NFL as far as developing a players potential.
They will continue to come. The ones I see as possibly getting the short end of the stick is our local guys since we are recruiting more and more nationally.
Question:
When offered a greyshirt, can’t the recruit still enroll at that school in the fall semester as a part time student (and not participate with the team) or does it have to be at a junior college? If he can enroll at the particular school then the critic’s educational argument against greyshirting is invalid. Anybody know?
by Chuck Finley on Feb 4, 2012 2:42 PM CST via mobile reply actions
You could enroll
assuming you applied and were accepted. However, you would have to pay your own way, which is not ideal and might be prohibitive for many recruits.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
Similar things happen in the academic arena and no one
is outraged. There are scholarships that kids get based on a minimum GPA. The scholarship is “awarded” when you are accepted, but if your GPA drops below that number after your final grades come in, it is withdrawn. Doesn’t matter if your grades went down from partying, coasting or being very sick. The last scenario is sad, but it happens.
"I never did give anybody hell. I just told the truth and they thought it was
hell."
- Harry S Truman
Heck, my wife had hers yanked at AU with a 4.0...
said funding was cut, which is funny since the incoming freshmen were still getting scholarships.
IMO academic and athletic scholarships are apples and oranges. You can’t necessarily equate losing an athletic scholarship due to poor athletic performance with losing an academic scholarship due to poor academic performance. Yes, there are a lot of parallels, but it’s just too easy to poke holes in the argument. And it’s not an argument that needs to be made anyway.
Nick Saban has never to my knowledge strait up cut a player simply due to athletic performance, i.e. walking up and saying “hey buddy, you’re 5th string. You’re never going to see the field here. Hit the road, your scholarship isn’t being renewed”. He’s never been accused of doing that by any player and I don’t think he would do that. There is plenty of evidence that he genuinely cares about his players and is a good person.
Here is the truth about Nick Saban. His first goal is to win football games. Yes, he cares about the personal and academic development of his players. You could call that goal 1b, and while he will treat his players fairly, he isn’t going to put a them above the program. And for this he is crucified. Consider this example. A player comes in and redshirts his freshman year. After four years, the player is still 5th string and likely to never play a down. Yes, Saban might “cut” this player (making this the exception to the above statment). So what? The guy was given four years at a four year academic institution. Seems fair to me, but the haters will paint Saban as a villain for doing this. Give out a few medical scholarships? Villain. Never mind that the players are still free to get their degree. In fact, it probably helps them in the long run because they can put more into their studies and whatnot.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
Actually I have to disagree with a lot of your analysis OTS
It seems like you’re basically saying blame the system instead of the coach/institution. Yes, I think a lot of the negativity is overblown and the system isn’t perfect, but at the same time nobody is forcing anyone to oversign. If you make a decision that certain things must be done in order to compete, you have to own up to that decision.
Gray-shirting for the most part is really not a big deal. However, one issue that I see could be where a recruit gets a gray-shirt offer and accepts it. Then he ends up getting into some kind of accident or suffers an injury that either ends his career or severely limits his athletic ability while he was waiting to sign/enroll in January. If he had already signed, he would at least be guaranteed a medical scholarship so that he could get his education. But if you hadn’t signed anything, would the coach still be willing to honor the commitment? The existence of any scenario, however remote, in which a recruit might get his chance at a scholarship forever killed by gray-shirting is not a minor thing.
A couple of things could happen in this situation. Perhaps the coach could still sign him, knowing that he would immediately be given a medical scholarship. But with hard-caps on signing rather than enrolling that might be a problem. Or if he isn’t playing sports, he could just get a regular scholarship or have the coach pay for his education? I don’t know.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
by Zoltar on Feb 4, 2012 3:16 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
This superfluous, hypothetical, straw-man argument
has a fractionally not relevant probability in any given gray-shirts circumstance. But that is not the real problem I have with the argument; that is the presumption that by accepting the grayshirt he is cheating himself out of a scholarship by not getting the scholarship he was never offered, and/or the benefits of a deal he didn’t get in the first place. It’s absurd.
Throwing in a bunch of adjectives doesn't make your argument any better
And it’s ridiculous to say that the kid was never offered a scholarship in the first place when it appears that he might have been offered one initially with no mention of the possibility of gray-shirting, but more importantly he had other scholarship offers from other schools.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
I
don’t think he is saying “blame the system” necessarily, I took his point to be that this is all a natural consequence to the current rules that have been put in place.
"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken
If he had already signed, he would at least be guaranteed a medical scholarship so that he could get his education.
I’m not so sure about that either. Signing the LOI is only binding on the player, not the school. I don’t think grayshirts have ever been guaranteed anything, even when they have “signed”.
God bless our Dark Lord.
Yea, that’s correct. I should have said signed and enrolled. The point still stands that grayshirting causes a window where something could go wrong that wouldn’t be there if you signed and enrolled in the fall.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
This article completely misrepresents the issue
There is no outcry against the use of greyshirts, but there is an outcry against not being up front with a recruit with respect to the timing of when a greyshirt is mentioned as a possibility. This kid did all the things that Coach Saban has asked for a committed recruit. He made up his mind in Feb 2011, committed, and didn’t shop around.
When he was injured in August 2011, his guardian said there was no mention of greyshirting, and Alabama made it clear that they still wanted him as part of the 2012 class. The first mention of greyshirting came in Jan. 2012. Is this information accurate? Who knows, but it’s the only published information we have from someone directly involved in the process, and is the source of the outcry.
Looking at it from the outside, it appears that we wanted to have our cake and eat it too. We didn’t want to tell Taylor that he could be a potential greyshirt in Aug 2011 because we still wanted to sign him in this class if no one “better” came along.
The focus should be on what the recruit wants, not what we, as fans, want for the recruit. Taylor wanted to sign and enroll in 2012. He deserved to know where he stood during the Fall of 2011, so he could have opened his recruiting back up, taken official visits to other schools, and made an informed decision based on his wants and goals. Not scramble to find a place to land a few weeks before signing day.
How early did we know that he might have to gray shirt? Maybe not until the class started filling up. No, it wasn’t handled in the best way possible and he didn’t get everything he wanted exactly as he wanted, but that’s life. But the bottom line is that he still could have come to Alabama. It was his choice to go elsewhere.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
The outcry is for all things Alabama.
Period. After winning 2 Titles in 3 years you have you expect people this. In college football, if your team ain’t winning, it’s because the SEC is cheating.
"Tommy, completions are way more awesome when you force them through triple coverage." ----Brett Farve (look-a-like)
no one on this site knows what private conversations Saban had with Taylor or Philon.
I do think Saban wants the best for the players.
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
by 5026 on Feb 4, 2012 9:45 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Everything he does...
…screams that he wants the best for the players….
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Feb 4, 2012 9:48 PM CST up reply actions
What do people expect?
You have to assume that some kids will change their mind, so you can’t just extend the exact number of offers to match the number you are shooting for. More kids wanting to come here is a good thing, even if some get “hosed.”
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
one question
Where is the public outcry against the prospects that change their mind late in the game or on NSD?
by RexBama13 on Feb 4, 2012 5:53 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I know I'll probably catch a lot of grief for this....
…but let’s be honest, the whole recruiting process is a long, drawn out job interview. Recruits are trying to get the best job they can for their future and programs are trying to get the best personnel they can on board for the company. Sometimes one party or the other changes its mind. I don’t know why people expect all sorts of grandiose gestures from athletics that they don’t expect elsewhere in life. If a business found a better person to hire right out of high school over another one, we wouldn’t be throwing our hands in the air and rending our garments about it if it was an auto repair shop or a retail outlet. Why is football so sacred? I’m not saying it’s always “fair” but what is really?
by Nico2.0 on Feb 4, 2012 6:32 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
Careful
you’re sounding like one of us heartless capitalists…
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
I'm not saying I like it...
…I’m just saying that’s how it is.
People looking to big time college athletics for ethics, etc. are being incredibly naive.
There's just no way to manage it perfectly every time
and coaches get fired a lot quicker for losing than they do for stuff like this.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
The only 'commitment'...
…that means anything is the one on paper….
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Feb 4, 2012 9:45 PM CST up reply actions
exactly and that is only for 1 year and has requirements too
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
No grief from me
You said it very well. I thought of the job interview process parallels myself. Kids don’t ‘deserve’ the right to go to college, athelete or not. You earn your way into college (or job or whatever) by getting the grades, polishing your skills, and then shopping around for the best fit. Just like in real life, huh…
I got your back on this one, sounds like JTad does too. :)
OTS actually pointed at the source of the ‘issue’ and folks don’t want to hear it. Anytime a bureaucratic entity (government, NCAA, the SEC in this case, etc) makes a rule, there is always fallout and it usually negatively affects everyone involved. The coaches, the schools, and the prospective players are all being subjected to this crap. But it’s easier to gripe and stomp your feet and blame people that would prefer the exact opposite of the rule than to point at the rule and ask “Does this make any sense??”. Of course it doesn’t, but then again, speed limits (for example) don’t make a whole lot of sense either, but we deal with it the best way we know how and move on.
Attempting to remove humor from posts since August 30, 2011
All about the notice
I think it does come down to transparency on the part of coaches, If they deliberately go after more than 25 in order to make sure they get 25, then the kids most likely affected need to know that a greyshirt is a possibility as soon as possible. Since the university really can’t comment on these situations, and since the media makes up its mind before these situations even happen, I’m going to assume things were handled as best they could be by Alabama’s representatives.
People forget the 85 man limit was to stop Coach Bryant
and Alabama and to “level the playing field”. The 25 scholly’s per year number came along
(don’t want anyone loading up with one or two classes, oh no)… the “bump rule”… on and on. Ultimately, the new rule limiting over-signing is to blame and the only ones it hurts are the kids cause it trickles down…. a couple of scholarships Alabama ultimately couldn’t offer, a couple of kids that don’t get to go to college somewhere else down the line.
You are right.
Rules and limits don’t hurt Bama it hurts kids. If we could have 100 on scholly how many more poor kids could go to college? A lot.
If someone like Tulsa can’t afford 15 more schollys they can go down a division or play with 85.
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
this is actually an interesting thought
While I understand why everyone wanted to curtail the advantage of us offering the vast majority of scholarships we did, ultimately, who did it hurt? On the football field, certainly it hurt us when the rule was changed, however, from a societal standpoint, one could easily argue that everyone lost. A seat at a place of higher learning stands to benefit society as a whole, regardless of how it was obtained. Ofcourse, that assumes that the players actually are compelled to take advantage of the scholarship. Given Saban’s academic track record with players, I think at least in this instance, one could make a legitimate arugment that curtailing scholarships is a loss for society.
Basically, my point is, what if we went on a system sort of like free enterprise; or what the market will bear? Lets say we signed 100 players a year to scholarships, and had 400 kids on the team. Who has lost? Well certainly other teams, but in the end, if we are graduating 90% or higher of the team, has society lost? Alabama could easily afford such a scenario, as could many other schools. Obviously, this is a bit of stretch when it comes to the current system of rules; however, I just don’t understand people that think that curtailing and even lowering scholarships is a good thing. I would argue that giving free educations is far more important that what happens on 12 Saturday’s a year; and if we can afford it, we should be able to do it. I read a stat once, 6% of 1A players will ever play a down of NFL football, and less than 2% will ever reach pension (4 years- at least as I understand it). With that in mind, the education is what should matter in my eyes.
by BamaThrasher on Feb 5, 2012 12:21 AM CST up reply actions
Could not agree more.
I had a good friend in the 60’s (yeah, I’m that old) who could not afford to go to college. His dad has passed and hi smom was struggling to make ends meet. But, he played football (although he wasn’t really that good.) Anyway, his high school coach called a college coach and got the guy a scholarship as a favor to the high school coach. The college coach wasn’t that interested in the kid, a center, but he wanted to keep the high school coach happy.
Anyway the kid went to college, was on the team on scholarship for 4 years and dressed one time…for senior day. But he graduated and went on to a successful business career and today he is a retired millionaire. I asked him one time what he thought would have happened if he had not gotten that scholarship he said he would probably have gotten a job working with the local rec department cutting grass. Not that there is anything wrong with that but wow a scholarship changed his life. And when harm did it do to the school he “played” for? No harm, they went something like 8-2 every year and even played in the Sugar bowl once. What harm did it do the schools he “played” against? No harm at all.
And think about it. What wins games are the elite athletes, the Trent Richardson’s and the Hightowers. Those guys are going to get schollys if we have 85 or 185 to give out. And the fact we have just 85 is not going to mean they are going to all of a sudden go to Southern Miss. The same teams on top when you could give as many as you wanted or give 120 are the teams on top today with a few, very few exceptions.
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
Here's the thing
If Alabama is looking to a kid as a possible player- believe you me: THE KID CAN PLAY! Period, end of story. So, logically speaking- say Coach Saban “can’t” offer a kid he’s been active in recruiting, it stands to reason that the kid definitely play at another university. He HAS TO BE that good, or else- why would Coach even bother.
I understand what you’re trying to say, it’s just that I don’t buy the “hurts the kid” business. The “trickle down”, is that the kid will either go to our little sister’s school, . . . . .OR a place like say, . . .???? . . . .Kentucky, under Joker.
by BixBeiderbecke on Feb 5, 2012 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
Playing football at UK would be a lot of fun
if you liked basketball. I mean you could get real good seats and even get to know the players.
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
by 5026 on Feb 5, 2012 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Your comment sounds funny, at least to someone?
Your point being, as it relates to my comment. Please, indulge me.
by BixBeiderbecke on Feb 5, 2012 5:17 PM CST up reply actions
My poiint is...
Kentucky under the Joker is sort of a joke. And a kid like say Mr. Taylor will probably not have a great football experience under the Joker, but then again if he likes basketball he will have a fun time going to UK.
I knew a teenager that went to UK on a track scholarship. I asked him how it was and he said it was fun getting to know the basketball players.
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
Yes, but somewhere down the line, there's someone else that didn't get a scholly because of it.
God bless our Dark Lord.
I see that, and understand it clearly-
It’s just that, if I can join in on the “dog eat dog” perspective- then those poverty-stricken, low-grade performing, “only-way-outta-the-hood-is-to-get-an-edjumucation” athletes SIMPLY GOTTA PLAY BETTER!
I wish that EVERY kid who wants to go to a university, gets to go a university- but then I’d be a commie. We aren’t there, and I don’t know if there’ll ever be a “yet” to end that sentence. Frankly, I’m not all in a tissy about it to tell you the truth.
I’ve defended Coach Saban on many websites regarding “grayshirting” and medical scholarships- the worse was over at MGoBlog and the hairy-ass clown administrator who has it in for Coach. And in all honesty, I’ve got no beef with the manner and strategy Coach utilizes in order to keep the Tide at the top of the CFB landscape. My comment is merely a counter response to one of the many arguments our fans try to justify his strategy. Believe you me, I’m not at all into shooting messengers, it’s just that the “hurts the kids” justification I don’t feel carries any weight. Coach has done absolutely nothing wrong, as it applies to the topic of over-signing and grayshirting. He has utilized all manner of tools and strategies to work within the system’s sets of rules and bylaws.
Fact of the matter is, non-Tide fans hate him for being so freakishly awesome and peerlessly badass.
by BixBeiderbecke on Feb 6, 2012 1:08 PM CST up reply actions
Fact of the matter is, non-Tide fans hate him for being so freakishly awesome and peerlessly badass.
"High standards come from passion within...." --Coach Nick Saban
by NiceLittleSaturday on Feb 6, 2012 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
For Zoltar, et al...(and, yes, I am pissed).
Where is the hue and cry when people, such as myself, have academic “free rides”, and then medical calamity befalls them in school? Completely without fault, a performer can no longer do so (in a manner). As a result, the end is not a golden parachute, it’s a damned leaden-drop to a life of perpetual fiscal enslavement. And do not feed me a trope of “well, you can always quit, no longer incur debt”. Awesome. Leaving you with what? One year of debt, one year of school, no job skills, and — if the system worked — enough intellectual/professional curiosity to ride out the string, to actually DO your calling?
No one weeps for those folks. Your lawyers, and English teachers, and ASL instructors, and voc rehab people — your neighbors for chrissakes — aren’t sexy enough to get in a lather over. Yet, if that scenario happens with a scholar-athlete, we get all freaking hot and bothered despite the fact that the player still gets a medical scholarship. Duty pay, as it were.
So, cry me a f’n river if I don’t weep when a guy has to MERELY get option 1B and hundreds of thousands of dollars of free education, housing, medical care, academic support, food, and the chance to pursue their life’s calling, be it on the gridiron or the boardroom or the warehouse floor.
Rant. Fucking. Over.
Inanity @gothlaw
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not; a sense of humor to console him for what he is." -Sir Francis Bacon
by Stuck in the Plains on Feb 5, 2012 9:26 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
Our 2 greyshirt guys went to Arkansas and Kentucky, respectively. They ended out juuuuust dandy.
My concern is the fallout over Taylor being a longtime commit who is informed (weeks before NSD) that he will be a greyshirt. There is no way this could possibly play well when applied to a coach that is already painted as a “mercenary” by his competitors. I understand that with the 25-limit, everyone will cast a keen eye on possible academic casualties, injuries, etc. All I want is either for such situations to be handled better in the future, or if numerous programs around the country get just as much flak as Alabama when THEY do it.
PS: I’m not pointing fingers, but anyone who looks that goddamned maniacal in a top hat (YOU) doesn’t deserve my sympathy. ;]]
Fucking. Over. Rant.
9th January, 2012: Section 101, Row 1, Seat... I'll let y'all spot that one.
"And a crashin' blow from a huge right hand
Sent a Louisiana fellow to the Promised Land"
-- "Big John" by Jimmy Dean
So you’re saying two wrongs make a right? You got fucked over, so who cares if we do the same to an athlete?
Yet, if that scenario happens with a scholar-athlete, we get all freaking hot and bothered despite the fact that the player still gets a medical scholarship. Duty pay, as it were.
I have no issue with medical scholarships at all. What I was talking about is a potential loophole where a kid could end up getting nothing because we asked him to grayshirt whereas if he had signed with another team he would have been guaranteed at least a medical scholarship. I’m not okay with that, but like I said there are potential ways around it.
All I’m saying is that if we are asking players to grayshirt, I’d like to have all the bases covered so that they don’t end up getting screwed over because they did what we asked them to do.
And there’s a couple of factors for why “if that scenario happens with a scholar-athlete, we get all freaking hot and bothered”. First of all, these players are basically public figures, so when something happens to them it is news. It’s hard for there to be an outcry over random student #12,235 when nobody knows about it. Secondly, it’s a comparative issue. If standard practice at the vast majority of universities was to accommodate students that end up having health issues, and then one particular university decides to kick them to the curb, then you might hear more of an outcry about it.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
I
wonder how much outcry there would be over Philon had he not had that awkward signing ceremony? Clearly the kid was conflicted. The adults should’ve stepped in and saved him from that. It was painful.
"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken
He was playing the victim.
Everybody wants their moment of fame. He got his.
I’m convinced he knew this was a real possibility and if he had been watching the LOI come in he would know he was not going to Bama. The kid was talking with Arky in the days leading up to NSD and he knew what was going on.
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
I still haven't seen anyone else address this:
If Philon (or Taylor) had agreed to take the grayshirt and then when August rolled around one of our signees had not qualified, I think we would have been able to bring Philon in at that point. And with no one signed up to grayshirt, we will still be able to do that if someone else doesn’t qualify. The restriction on signees is from February to May.
God bless our Dark Lord.
This is a good point and sorry I did not read it earlier in the day.
If Auburn was in New Mexico and we never played them I would still hate them and their dumb coach and their cheating players.
I know Greyshirting
is the main topic, but wanted to add a few points. But on greyshirting, it was mentioned that Bama’s top 2 high profile GS players were JPW and Vlachos. The verdict is stilll out on Harrison Jones who did GS and sit out of school of the midterm.
CNS did mention the ideas that some had offered about an early signing period could not come until after their hs year was up due to the idea that the player would just roll over and think he has it made now—all is gravy from here on out.
It looks like some of the things that Arky posted into some of theirown investigation surrounding Phillon was that there might have been a cover up of some sort. The verdict is still out on this matter. Bottom line is that perhaps the Hogs now just might see that CNS is smarter than the cat’s meow.
I too have seen some of the venom being spewed after some of the posts by the AJC. Some good stuff—bunch of wussies. There favorite line is “if you go to Bama on scholarship, be careful because if you get hurt it might get pulled out from underneath you.” CB969 has seen that same phrase that they are using “you’ll get kicked to the curb” I had one ask me what are my thoughts on what Saban had done and I had to laugh and remind them why ask me for my opinion—you and the UGA/oversigning.com cronies have all the answers.As far as I know UA and CNS has not received any letters of inquiry from the NCAA, if there had been anything done violating NCAA guidelines, I am pretty sure that they would have sent that investigator out of the Ttown condo they have rented and had a talk w/ ole Nick.
My favorite from the AJC post is how lucky they are to have a fine Christian coach like Richt. They would rather not ever win a NC than to have a coach who is unethical. That fine saint of a coach sent his entire team onto the field and into the endzone to say hello to the Gators a few years back. That was so Christian-like wasn’t it?
NSD: from here on out it stands for Nick Saban Day dammit.
"if you go to Bama on scholarship, be careful because if you get hurt it might get pulled out from underneath you."
Sure, if by “pulled out from underneath you” you mean put on a medical scholarship so that you can finish your degree at no cost to you and without having to worry about football.
God bless our Dark Lord.
No surprise
if the folks from oversigning.com and marchto85 start some sort of letter writing campaign to all the GA HS coaches telling them what they think of CNS. Their mantra has been for all their readers to tell the parents /coaches @ their schools what they think. They too just can’t get over how the Tide has done so well in their backyard—-why, it is just so surprising—throw your hair back over your shoulder like a Valley girl in California.
petty jealousy, they are just about to blow their stack thinking about it and it gets funnier by the day.
Even then it won't matter
The kids who have the heart, who have the drive to compete, who are the elite, will still come to Alabama.
by Durdens Wrath on Feb 7, 2012 9:17 AM CST up reply actions
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