Garbage Time
In the blogosphere, you tend to get a bit accustomed to running across drivel masqueraded as legitimate commentary, but occasionally something comes up that simply takes the cake. Today I ran across one of those pieces. It seems Brian Cook, a Michigan blogger -- and no I'm not sure how in the hell he feels qualified to discuss Alabama football on that basis -- isn't too big of a fan of our latest recruiting class. In this piece of analytical garbage, if it even deserves that high of acclaim, he labels Saban a "Snake Oil Salesman," essentially states that our class is very overrated due to over-signing, and bemoans the practice of over-signing itself.
Let's see if we can delve deeper into this pile of junk, if at all possible. Be warned, put on your bullshit glasses before reading further.
Actually, this class really only included 30 signees, not 32. See, this is where, you know, actually following Alabama football closely -- as opposed to following it via the headlines and then heading off to your computer to piss and moan on your AOL blog -- really pays off. Two of our signees, wide receiver Chris Jackson and kicker Corey Smith, graduated high school early and actually enrolled this past January. Those two signees are thus back-counters, and are part of the 2007 recruiting class, not the 2008 class. As a result, just doing the basic math, our 2008 class effectively consists of 30 signees, not 32.
And that is even if you don't consider the fact that Wesley Neighbors may very well end up on a Bryant scholarship -- since he is most likely not going to play in his first two years on campus anyway -- and therefore he will not count against the scholarship limit this year. If that is indeed the case, as many expect, this class suddenly goes down to 29 players.
So since Miami admittedly stretched the boundaries even further than we did, why is this article not bemoaning Randy Shannon as a snake oil salesman?
Moreover, you act like Alabama and Miami are the only two programs to sign that many players, completely ignoring the fact that signing 30 or more players is a relatively common occurrence. This year alone, aside from the aforementioned two schools, Florida State, Virginia Tech, Minnesota, Ole Miss, and Kansas State also signed 30 or more players. In 2007, Tennessee, Auburn, and South Carolina all signed over 30 players, just to name a few. In other words, if you really think signing that many players is an aberration, you haven't been paying attention.
And, of course, where is the article bemoaning all of those coaches?
Proofreading is fun!
Wow, what a scandal, number six! How will we ever cope?
And for the record, our class is the number one rated class in the country not because of sheer size, but because we signed more four and five star players (20) than any other team in the country.
At bottom, there is a reason why the recruiting services do not base rankings solely off of average star ratings. Bigger classes are inherently better classes because they bring in more football players, thus meaning more quality football players will result. Smaller classes may have higher average star ratings, but once the non-qualifiers and the busts are factored out, the classes literally end up very small and often do not turn out that many good football players. Bigger classes are largely sheltered from such problems, hence why all other things being equal the recruiting services rate bigger classes higher.
Oh yeah, there is also the problem of elementary statistics. Average star ratings are just like every other average number in the universe, they can be greatly influenced by a few outliers and thus become essentially meaningless because they do not adequately represent the entire data set. I remember fourth grade, do you? If you need any more help, click here. Or I guess since you apparently can't spring twelve bucks for a haircut, you should probably click here for the free explanation.
At the end of the day, there are very good reasons why the recruiting services -- i.e. the guys who do this sort of thing for a living -- do not rate classes solely by average star rating. But I guess you've just got it all figured out though, don't you? I bet you are the first guy who ever clicked that sort button right above the average star ratings. You should probably give the recruiting gurus a call, they will undoubtedly be forever grateful for your groundbreaking discovery.
And speaking of such, I suppose that 2004 class that Saban signed at LSU -- #2 in the nation, but with 29 signees and "only" an average star rating of 3.38 -- was overrated by sheer numbers, too, right? Oh, wait... nevermind.
Um, come again?
I cannot speak for Miami -- unlike yourself I'm not going to blather on about programs I don't know about -- but I know for a fact that is not a case with us. If you believe that, either you have no idea what you are talking about, or you have been taking too seriously the opinions of those with far bigger mouths than brains.
There is not a single player in our entire class that does not have a very legitimate chance to qualify. We will have a few players that do not qualify -- and I do mean a few, maybe three or four guys -- but just about everyone in this class is close. The only one that I have heard legitimate concerns over is Jermaine Preyear, who is actually one of the lower rated guys in the class. As for everyone else, we have a few guys still on the fence, but all of them are very close. Most guys only need to improve their ACT a point or two, or perhaps raise their core GPA very slightly.
Again, I cannot speak for Miami, but in our case you couldn't be farther from the truth. Regardless of exactly how you came to that asinine conclusion, though, you are full of it either way. And rest assured I'm saving that absurd comment so you can eat those words six months from now when nearly all of this class has academically qualified.
- Four to six guys are not going to qualify.
- Four more guys who are marginally useful can plausibly be given medical scholarships and removed from the team.
- Six more scholarships need to be forcibly extracted from somewhere"
The only disturbing thing I've seen to date is that haircut. Moving on...
Four to six guys are not going to qualify? The bottom end may be plausible, but the upper end of that projection is completely bogus, though I suppose it is only fitting for someone as laughable as yourself to cite a source which is equally ridiculous.
And exactly what is wrong with medical scholarships, or putting players on it? It is a legitimate option for players who can no longer medically play football to continue their education on the university's dime. Every school does it, almighty Michigan included, and we have several candidates on our team that may very well need a medical scholarship. Cody Davis, after several shoulder surgeries, still has a dislocation almost immediately when participating in physical contact. Chris Lett is a diabetic who cannot participate in physical activities in the intense heat that is simply part of the territory in the deep south. B.J. Stabler has a chronic knee condition in both knees, and legitimately cannot play more than a handful of snaps at best. Zeke Knight already underwent surgery for a heart murmur, and may have recently suffered a light stroke. What in the world is wrong with any of these guys possibly going on medical scholarship? Absolutely nothing, contrary to your bogus "concerns."
And "forcibly extracted"? What are we doing here, pulling teeth? It sounds like it, anyway, with terms like that. In reality, players are going to leave and we all know it. Many of the former staffs' previous signees, particularly on the defensive side of the ball, do not fit with the current scheme and may very well end up going elsewhere. I guess since you are a Michigan blowhard, we'll call this Ryan Mallett Syndrome so it will hit a little closer to home. Others will simply leave because they cannot handle the Fourth Quarter Program. Either way, no one is being "run off" or anything sinister of the sort. Attrition is simply a part of college football, deal with it. Stop pissing and moaning about an inevitable thing that happens at all colleges, and stop singling us out in particular as if we are the only one who experiences it.
Who mentioned the nastiness of Rich Rodriguez? Joe Tiller? Do you think any of us really cares what Joe Tiller thinks about anything, much less Rich Rodriguez and his recruiting tactics?
And, for the record, I can assure that no one in our collective fan base has given a second thought to Rodriguez since we sent his wife some thank you cards and hairspray last January when Saban landed in Tuscaloosa. Then again, I imagine that you figure if you are going to go off on a long, baseless rant consisting of nothing more than a bunch of ridiculous assertions, what's one little off-tangent rant, right?
Bottom line, it's simple: You obviously don't know anything about Alabama football, so shut up and stop acting like you do. Your opinion is as unsolicited as it is uninformed, and you are not fooling anyone with any actual knowledge of the situation. Just do us all a favor and stick to Michigan football, you might even know a thing or two about it.
And go Buckeyes.
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Comments
Huzzah!
AOL
by kennybk483 on Feb 14, 2008 8:37 AM CST reply actions
i'm not super happy about this article, but....
second, as much ink that has been spilled about the sketchy nature of how saban does business this is an issue it's valid to level against the program. why? because he did bring in such a stellar class. this is a problem across the ncaa but, obviously, the program that does best is gonna be a lighting rod for the vitrol.
but, the problem is, saying everyone else does it isn't a defense and denegrating the messenger isn't either. that applies in both directions.
but it's a really sketchy way of doing business and not particularly fair to the borderline recruits who are going to get dumped come next fall. hell, even from a completely team-performance perspective it makes evaluation of this class difficult to discern.
as much as i found this particular article distasteful i have a lot of respect for brian's work. and this is an issue he knows a bit about. last year he and orson over at edsbs looked at this last year (intro andpart one, part two) and, the results are not pretty.
yeah, everyone does it and, yeah, the sec is pretty bad about it. which raises a wider question that i'd like to see answered rather than the usual mudslinging at everyone's given program.
Explain?
The only other point that I got out of this was that Brian thought Saban was going to force players off the team. I am not sure how well versed you are in Alabama football, but Saban did not do this last year, even though there were many fans who thought he should have. I do not see a problem with having players leave who are not doing positive things for their teammates and the university. The scholarship is a commitment by both parties to do the right thing. It would be naive to think all of these are just kids who are trying to get an education.
I think the main thing that bothers Alabama fans is that Saban and Alabama are the ones portrayed wrongly. If someone wants to speak of the greater ills that are going on in the NCAA I think most people would listen, but when you do so as a thinly disguised slight at someone else, people are going to take offense. I think that is obviously what OTL was writing about.
Also, if you have legitimate information on what Saban is doing that is wrong regarding recruiting let's hear it. The only thing I ever hear is so-and-so knows a guy who knows a guy who has seen x recruit in a BMW. Is there anything substantive that you know? There is at least some evidence regarding Coach Meyer. Is there the same regarding Saban, or is it more hearsay?
by kennybk483 on Feb 14, 2008 9:17 AM CST up reply actions
for the love of pete
brian's article is inflammatory but rather than adding to the flames, wouldn't it make more sense to discuss the practice and if it is something we ethically want to be closely associated with? and why do all arguments on these topics have to disintergrate into ad hominem accusations?
(or more to the point, what the fuck does any 'legitimate information' i may have to do with the discussion? i've not said coach saban has done anything wrong in terms of nacaa recruting rules at all. nor has brian, i might add.)
no, i'm not comfortable with 'grey shirting' as a policy and, i can assure you, an anecdote about how players "enjoy it" convinces me otherwise.
but, of course, it's one among quite a few practices in college football that make me more than a little bit queesy. and, on a more practical note, i'd like a better understanding on how the practice actually will affect the so-called 'standing' of this much heralded recruiting class.
i think these are valid questions worth pursuing in a productive discussion without all the wailing and gnashing of teeth, that's all.
WTF?
I am fine with having a discussion about the NCAA, but the original point of OTL's article was a rebuttal to an uninformed article that Brian wrote. Brian was taking the shots at Saban, and was using one article as his source of information. I think this article might have had more credence if it was a follow up after the season started, and actually looked at where the players ended up. He is instead making assumptions about something he is very ill informed. I do not know how UM does their recruting, but it is my understanding that they oversigned players as well. Look in the mirror before you cast the first stone!
by kennybk483 on Feb 14, 2008 10:22 AM CST up reply actions
Garbage Time: Part Two
Since when did Saban and Alabama become the face of these practices? Hell, even the Auburn people aren't saying that. A ton of teams oversign every single year, and that has been going on ever since scholarship limitations were clamped down in the first place. The "public face" of our recruiting class this year has been nothing but positive publicity about how a great class will help Alabama's return to the national elite. I have no idea where you are getting this from. Hell, even ESPN has lauded this class.
Well, it really doesn't matter if you aren't comfortable with greyshirting, so long as the players and coaches involved are comfortable with it. That's all that really matters.
And what does greyshirting have to do with us at the moment anyway? Saban himself has went on the record several times saying that he does not like that particular tool, and we might not even use that a single time this year. If Wesley Neighbors goes on the Bryant Scholarship, we are down to 29 players and thus if four don't qualify not a single person in this class will have to greyshirt.
And even if Saban was a big proponent of it -- which he is obviously not -- then so what? Nearly every school in the country has used greyshirts at one point in time the past few years. If you want to piss and moan about the tool itself, then fine, but don't single out Saban for something that he hasn't even done yet, something he admittedly doesn't like, and something that tons of other coaches have done on a routine basis.
If certain things make you queasy, so be it, but again, don't single out Saban and Alabama.
And if you really want a better understanding of this class, read some of the stuff I have written on recruiting in the past month. I, personally, have tried to cover every nook and cranny of it here at RBR, so go read that. But to give you a short primer, the "so-called 'standing'" of this class won't really be effected at all. Come August, it will still be the number one recruiting class in the country, and it will have very, very few academic casualties.
by outsidethesidelines on Feb 14, 2008 2:25 PM CST up reply actions
I understand your point about how...
You know, it really doesn't deserve...
Exactly
by outsidethesidelines on Feb 14, 2008 2:27 PM CST up reply actions
What a load of crap?
According to the stats, Vandy is the worst SEC offender in terms of retaining players. Brian was part of the research which brought this problems to light. How many columns has he written about the unfairness of Vandy toward borderline recruits?
Capstone
by kennybk483 on Feb 14, 2008 9:35 AM CST up reply actions
That guy is a genius
Great rebuttal OTS; shows why you are one of the most informed and well-written bloggers out there.
and I lol'd @ "Go Buckeyes". Classics.
"And go Buckeyes"
I have to admit, I stop by mgoblog every now and again. Usually pretty good analyses. But, Brian has lost his marbles on this one. Excellent rejoinder to the half-informed.
by Stuck in the Plains on Feb 14, 2008 9:34 AM CST reply actions
Also Ratings Entities Don't Count more than
Scout
clear up questions on oversigning -
http://recruiting.scout.com/2/727350.html
"Go Buckeyes" was pretty funny, OTS.
Just sent this to the Wizard of Odds.
by Stuck in the Plains on Feb 14, 2008 12:39 PM CST reply actions
Wow...
"Go Buckeyes" Love it!!!
Thanks OTS
UM
In my experience...
This douche fits that profile.
Oy, make that CFB, not SFB
You should include that
Oh, and yea, Rivals and Scout both re-rank the classes after freshmen report in august. So, remember to mock and ridicule this clown again in 6 months.
by Cam on Feb 14, 2008 3:50 PM CST reply actions
Great Job
By the way- RR is not going to be the answer for Mich. despite what they may think. Don't think he can recruit the same type of player there he did at WVU, I think he will get good players, but not the same type of players. But, even if he does I don't see it working to the same degree. His O fit the less physical Big E. Something about the Big Ten tells me you cannot win that one with deception, you have to win it with brute force.
really?
Signed, Urban Meyer.
by Cam on Feb 14, 2008 6:24 PM CST up reply actions
I can't believe I am typing this, but LOL
recruiting class
When calculating necessary scholarships
by TheHeffalump on Feb 15, 2008 11:50 AM CST reply actions
Wow
Good job, OTL
Roll Tide Roll
by redtusc on Feb 16, 2008 2:31 AM CST reply actions

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